Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

**ABetterDetroit** · April-26-16, 03:58 PM

Gores AND Gilbert, deep pockets indeed. This could hit the fast track... Let's hope they do the future Detroit a big favor and get the location perfect because in 25 years the MLS Detroit stadium will have to be enlarged considerably and it will be much easier to do it where it is instead of having to build again at another location.

**emu steve** · April-26-16, 03:59 PM

Well for all the arrows I've taken on this forum for my belief that sports and entertainment facilities can and should be concentrated in the urban core to allow sharing of highways, public transportation [[QLine), parking, eateries, etc.

I've long held up Comerica, Ford Field, the new arena, Fox, etc. as what I think is ideal.

I guess the big boys, who are billionaires, agree with me:

"Potential stadium sites are not known. However, the Gores-Gilbert press release said:“If Detroit is chosen for an MLS expansion team, it would become the most dense urban sports and entertainment district city in America with four major professional sports stadiums within a 10-15 minute walk: Ford Field, Comerica Park, the new Detroit Red Wings arena and the new MLS stadium.”
***********************************
Man, this sound chapter and verse of what I have been preaching here for years.

I guess the issue now is site assembly, something the Ilitches had to deal with for the LONGEST time.

Should be interesting to see what they want vs. what they end up with...

**Atticus** · April-26-16, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by emu steve

Well for all the arrows I've taken on this forum for my belief that sports and entertainment facilities can and should be concentrated in the urban core to allow sharing of highways, public transportation [[QLine), parking, eateries, etc.

I've long held up Comerica, Ford Field, the new arena, Fox, etc. as what I think is ideal.

I guess the big boys, who are billionaires, agree with me:

"Potential stadium sites are not known. However, the Gores-Gilbert press release said:“If Detroit is chosen for an MLS expansion team, it would become the most dense urban sports and entertainment district city in America with four major professional sports stadiums within a 10-15 minute walk: Ford Field, Comerica Park, the new Detroit Red Wings arena and the new MLS stadium.”
***********************************
Man, this sound chapter and verse of what I have been preaching here for years.

I guess the issue now is site assembly, something the Ilitches had to deal with for the LONGEST time.

Should be interesting to see what they want vs. what they end up with...

I fully agree. The fail jail site is the perfect location for a MLS stadium. I hope that Gilbert's goodwill and backing is enough to get the county to realize that in the long term, it is best not to complete the jail... even if the dollars don't add up short term.

The reasons the fail jail site [[Gratiot, I-375, Macomb, and St. Antoine border) is perfect are:
1- It prevents the further development of jail usage in the prime CBD downtown core, which is obviously a bit of a turn off.
2 - Bordering the site, I-375 [[even if eventually made a surface street) and Gratiot both serve as pedestrian barriers to cross currently anyway. So for all the talk of a stadium being a "dead wall", well you are just slightly moving the dead wall that exists anyway. And arguably, the stadium would be less of a dead wall to downtown then what currently exists.
3 - The site is just the right size, if you compare other MLS stadiums, you will see that their footprint is very similar to that of the fail jail site.
4 - This stadium would fill in the gap between Greektown and Ford Field. Walking between the two is kinda dull and depressing. Dead wall or not, St. Antonie would be a much better walk with the MLS stadium there.
5 - MLS would bring more visitors and jobs to the downtown core. The argument that the Wings moving from the Joe is just a transfer of existing jobs and fans to a new arena site does not hold true for a new MLS stadium, as MLS does not exist in the region currently.

Come on Wayne County, make this happen and sell Gilbert and Gores the jail site!

**Hypestyles** · April-26-16, 05:07 PM

I want a job with this team, whenever it gets going. It should be fast-tracked. There also needs to be plenty of urban outreach for job development as well as drumming up interest in spectators. Partner with Detroit city schools for soccer clinics, sponsor some teams for high schools that don't have them yet.

**ABetterDetroit** · April-26-16, 05:28 PM

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...site/83556810/

It didn't take Wayne County long to think about it. The bribes must be flowing again...

**emu steve** · April-26-16, 05:29 PM

Atticus:

I wonder if DG wanted the 'fail jail' site 'on the cheap' months ago.

Now he REALLY wants this site. Is he willing to pay top dollar for a big site which he can build a stadium and the rest of the commercial enterprises he so desperately wants to put there?

#MotivatedBUYER [[not motivate seller, though).

Man, I'd love to see some real horse trading: Sell us that land at a premium and we'll fast track development there including the soccer stadium. And maybe a professional basketball team will see the moving trucks load up equipment in a few years..

Come on Gores and Gilbert: Throw everything including the kitchen sink. Up to 1B in new development and moving the Pistons back to Detroit...

IF, IF, IF all of that would be to happen, I will know that DETROIT IS BACK!!!

[[now back to my 90 proof decaf coffee.

).

**ekleezy** · April-26-16, 06:00 PM

Can a project like the jail site really sit for 2.5 years without any work being done without having major damage to it? I'm genuinely asking because I don't personally have experience with construction but I would think it would need a lot more work to build it now. In the past 2.5 years we've had two Winters and the big flood which couldn't have been any good.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-26-16, 09:47 PM

I had a super long and busy day at work. And somehow I never heard all about this news. It's like I'm dreaming, Gilbert and Gores want to bring MLS to Detroit. Holy leapin' lizards! This is now 1000x more likely to happen than it was yesterday. All the specifics are important, but having a team will be great regardless of where it goes exactly. I'm as excited for this as I was excited and surprised by the announcement of the construction of Ford Field. I never thought the Lions would come back downtown, and then BAM! one day it happened.

There are compelling cases to be made for more than a few locations.

For all the reasons we've discussed Fail Jail is a great locale. The county seems to be telegraphing: show us the money or there is no chance. Honestly, as much as I would love it to be the site, Warren Evans must do the financially prudent thing: without $$$, they've gotta finish the jail. It's tremendously cheaper than moving to Mound Rd.

Corktown has a few places that might be a good location, including Bham1982's favorite, in the vicinity of the Greyhound terminal. Brewster location makes a lot of sense, too. Especially the notion of nestling a stadium in a park dotted with community athletic fields. Riverfront, I fear, would lessen the foot traffic bang downtown, although a soccer stadium could look gorgeous there. I could even see a soccer stadium on Wayne State's campus, doubling as a new home for WSU football. Whatever. All this possibility is just enchanting. Thanks, Dan and Tom for the dreams, and one day, the soccer! [[And, I must add as a gay man, the soccer players).

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-26-16, 09:51 PM

Oh, and I stand by my commitment to naming the team Arsenal Detroit. Arsenal is a storied European soccer franchise [[MLS has seen a number of teams adopt classic soccer names). Also, Detroit was the Arsenal of Democracy in WW2. Well, technically it applied to all of industrialized America, but we know it was referring to Detroit.

**ParisianLesion** · April-26-16, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Oh, and I stand by my commitment to naming the team Arsenal Detroit. Arsenal is a storied European soccer franchise [[MLS has seen a number of teams adopt classic soccer names). Also, Detroit was the Arsenal of Democracy in WW2. Well, technically it applied to all of industrialized America, but we know it was referring to Detroit.

I LOVE this name. Now that I've heard it, I can't accept anything less.

Daily Detroit has a well educated hypothesis on the location of a potential new stadium:

http://www.dailydetroit.com/2016/04/...projects-site/

**Hypestyles** · April-26-16, 10:31 PM

So how big would an MLS soccer stadium need to be? During the off season, what type of events would need to take place to keep the venue profitable? Before someone else asks, does the MLS and NBA season overlap, how could this bolster the Pistons downtown, if at all?

**MSUguy** · April-26-16, 10:54 PM

For all those clamoring for the fail jail site. Remember there is jail across the street. You think they're going tk buy that site and just leavr the old jail there? So they just don't with the money for fail jail, but really all the surrounding buildings.

**Junjie** · April-26-16, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Oh, and I stand by my commitment to naming the team Arsenal Detroit. Arsenal is a storied European soccer franchise [[MLS has seen a number of teams adopt classic soccer names). Also, Detroit was the Arsenal of Democracy in WW2. Well, technically it applied to all of industrialized America, but we know it was referring to Detroit.

Geez, I love the DCFC logo/colors/name, but if MLS/Gores/Gilbert can't bring it all together with them then Arsenal Detroit sounds awesome. And not five minutes ago I was completely convinced that ripping off Euro club names was a terrible stain on MLS.

**Junjie** · April-26-16, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by ParisianLesion

I LOVE this name. Now that I've heard it, I can't accept anything less.

Daily Detroit has a well educated hypothesis on the location of a potential new stadium:

http://www.dailydetroit.com/2016/04/...projects-site/

I'm really coming around on the idea of this location. With two sides facing the highway, it's never gonna be prime retail or housing frontage. Negates nearly the entire debate in this thread about stadiums and their lack of every-day use. And with the huge housing investment already coming in Brush Park, this could be almost an overnight neighborhood venue. Near the QLine, near the Woodward BRT. Really a great spot.

As far as the jail, I don't like it where it is... but have to admit that a couple weekends ago I was walking in downtown Philly and suddenly realized the building next to me was a jail. Was there much foot traffic being generated on that block? No. But did it kill an entire swath of downtown Philadelphia? Also no. If the choice for the MLS stadium is Brewster/Brush Park, I think the city can live with the jail being completed where it is even if it's not a first choice.

**emu steve** · April-27-16, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

I had a super long and busy day at work. And somehow I never heard all about this news. It's like I'm dreaming, Gilbert and Gores want to bring MLS to Detroit. Holy leapin' lizards! This is now 1000x more likely to happen than it was yesterday. All the specifics are important, but having a team will be great regardless of where it goes exactly. I'm as excited for this as I was excited and surprised by the announcement of the construction of Ford Field. I never thought the Lions would come back downtown, and then BAM! one day it happened.

There are compelling cases to be made for more than a few locations.

For all the reasons we've discussed Fail Jail is a great locale. The county seems to be telegraphing: show us the money or there is no chance. Honestly, as much as I would love it to be the site, Warren Evans must do the financially prudent thing: without $$$, they've gotta finish the jail. It's tremendously cheaper than moving to Mound Rd.

Corktown has a few places that might be a good location, including Bham1982's favorite, in the vicinity of the Greyhound terminal. Brewster location makes a lot of sense, too. Especially the notion of nestling a stadium in a park dotted with community athletic fields. Riverfront, I fear, would lessen the foot traffic bang downtown, although a soccer stadium could look gorgeous there. I could even see a soccer stadium on Wayne State's campus, doubling as a new home for WSU football. Whatever. All this possibility is just enchanting. Thanks, Dan and Tom for the dreams, and one day, the soccer! [[And, I must add as a gay man, the soccer players).

I would be happy with the Brewster location.

**emu steve** · April-27-16, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Oh, and I stand by my commitment to naming the team Arsenal Detroit. Arsenal is a storied European soccer franchise [[MLS has seen a number of teams adopt classic soccer names). Also, Detroit was the Arsenal of Democracy in WW2. Well, technically it applied to all of industrialized America, but we know it was referring to Detroit.

I know copyright infringement, copyright infringement:

"Brew Crew"...

What I haven't read yet [[although I could have missed it) is that the CITY owns that land. So it wouldn't take 5 - 10 years to acquire through many deals for individual parcels.

The site, as outlined in the article looks really good.

http://www.dailydetroit.com/2016/04/...projects-site/

**mikeg19** · April-27-16, 06:13 AM

Wayne County is hell bent on putting up that stupid jail at the current site, so just cross that off the list of anything ever going there that's not a jail.

I think the Brewster would be a great site for the soccer stadium. I'm guessing a soccer stadium for MLS is somewhere in the neighborhood of 20K seats, so the footprint needs to be fairly large I'd assume. Too bad Gores and DG can't get Illitch on board as well and develop all that land behind the Fox. That would be a cool spot as well for the stadium. But, you know, I'm sure all that land is unavailable due to all the District Detroit development slated for that area.....

**emu steve** · April-27-16, 06:22 AM

Here are some drawings of the D.C. United's new stadium [[proposed design).

What is noteworthy is that the stadium fits into a parcel one city block wide. The design is kind of 'shoe horned.' There is a utility sub-station adjacent to the site so the stadium is constrained. [[on the other side is Fort McNair). It has a plaza and a long street, Potomac, S.W. which is a nice walk up touch.

I would suspect that the Brewster site would also be narrow, one city block wide. No? Maybe build a plaza in the S.E. corner by the freeway and have nice walk up avenues.

http://www.dcunited.com/club/futureunited

BTW, my top 4 sites in order:

1). "Fail Jail" site,

2). Brewster, home of the Detroit , aka 'Brew Crew'

3). 3rd and Temple,

4). Behind the Fox [[I don't like a 20k stadium behind buildings that are 10 or more stories high).

**Bham1982** · April-27-16, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

Wayne County is hell bent on putting up that stupid jail at the current site, so just cross that off the list of anything ever going there that's not a jail.

A jail is a far more urban, activity-generating and appropirate use for a downtown court complex than a soccer field. A jail for a county of 2 million generates 7-day foot traffic and significant ancillary business impact. Ask a deli owner across the street if he wants a jail or a soccer field.

But I'm sure we'll screw this site up too, assuming the sentiments I'm hearing on DYes are representative of our leadership.

Originally Posted by mikeg19

I think the Brewster would be a great site for the soccer stadium.

Except that this is federally funded public housing land, and the feds would never allow that to happen. Whatever is built on that site has to include provisions for affordable housing.

**SDCC** · April-27-16, 06:38 AM

Wayne County officials: No soccer at jail site

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/04/26/commissioners-say-no-soccer-at-jail-site/83556810/

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-27-16, 07:02 AM

I agree with the Daily Detroit article, the Brewster site makes sense in a number of ways. I'd still prefer the jail site, but the county would need to be paid a boatload of money for it to make sense to move the jail [[IIRC, finishing fail jail is approx a $300M project; building at Mound Rd was almost twice that). So while DG would obviously prefer a stadium to a jail next to his casino right downtown, I am pretty sure he doesn't prefer it to the tune of $300M.

My reasons for wanting to get rid of the jail there are 2 fold: a jail will never be a physically attractive addition to the streetscape in a downtown environment; and, a jail will add very little foot traffic downtown [[yes, I know employees will sometimes eat lunch downtown). The reason for not putting a jail downtown is that it doesn't meaningfully add to downtown. It won't ruin the neighborhood, it just doesn't help it.

Hyperstyles, I think this indirectly could bolster a Pistons move very much, albeit indirectly. It shows us that Tom Gores has a commitment to the city; and it allows us to show him how much enthusiasm can be generated by rumblings about a team coming downtown.

Soccer stadiums can really run the gamut architecturally. They can look old fashioned, staid and square, or really crazy modern. How it fits in or stands out will be determined as much by design as location. Since I don't think this came about in a Tweet, I suspect the Gores-Gilbert bid has been some time in coming. I wonder how far along they are in planning.

**detroitbob** · April-27-16, 07:50 AM

The Brewster site I believe would not qualify for a stadium as HUD money was used to demolish the old towers and town homes...the site can be used for a mix of housing and commercial.

**dtowncitylover** · April-27-16, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by SDCC

Wayne County officials: No soccer at jail site

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...site/83556810/

Ok thanks for that because I thought it was reported months ago Wayne County wanted to remain control of the Jail site. I'm hearing all this buzz about the jail site and I was thinking, "Is Wayne County gonna agree with this?"

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-27-16, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Ok thanks for that because I thought it was reported months ago Wayne County wanted to remain control of the Jail site. I'm hearing all this buzz about the jail site and I was thinking, "Is Wayne County gonna agree with this?"

The only real objection the county has is about money. They have to complete a new jail at the minimum possible cost. If a developer [[for soccer or anything else) were to pay the county enough for the site, they would consider moving. One additional sticking point, though: the county needs to move forward quickly [[the project only gets more expensive as the days and years go by; and the county needs the jail capacity). The timeline alone makes Fail Jail difficult for any private developer. I'm just secretly and probably unrealistically hoping that TG DG walk into Warren Evans' office and say, "How much for the jail?"

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · April-27-16, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by detroitbob

The Brewster site I believe would not qualify for a stadium as HUD money was used to demolish the old towers and town homes...the site can be used for a mix of housing and commercial.

Ahoy, one of the real problems of using federal money on any local project: you cede control of your local project to federal rules! But they can get around this by paying back the demo money. Considering the overall cost of a soccer stadium complex, those millions are probably not prohibitive. They can also get an exemption if they commit to building said housing and commercial development elsewhere. But such exemptions, although they exist, are rare and very time consuming to get.