Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[EGrant]

Not to derail the conversation too much, but I have never really liked Comerica. They went from this really cool [[but flawed) historic park that had fans literally right on top of the action like a bandbox, to a stadium that is just too open and focused on carousels and merry-go-rounds. It feels sterile and it tries too hard to look old-fashioned, but comes across as kind of fake and kitschy.

I don't think they'll tear it down anytime soon, especially with their [[alleged) plans for the lots surrounding the stadium. Maybe a Comisky Park [[or whatever its called now) renovation is more realistic.

But to tie it all together, an MLS stadium in the location of Tiger Stadium would have been a fantastic location. Happy they are using the field again, however.

[emu steve]

Not to derail the conversation too much, but I have never really liked Comerica. They went from this really cool [[but flawed) historic park that had fans literally right on top of the action like a bandbox, to a stadium that is just too open and focused on carousels and merry-go-rounds. It feels sterile and it tries too hard to look old-fashioned, but comes across as kind of fake and kitschy.

I don't think they'll tear it down anytime soon, especially with their [[alleged) plans for the lots surrounding the stadium. Maybe a Comisky Park [[or whatever its called now) renovation is more realistic.

But to tie it all together, an MLS stadium in the location of Tiger Stadium would have been a fantastic location. Happy they are using the field again, however.

Build a soccer stadium where the White Castle is and move it [[White Castle) to Greenfield Village. ;-)

[Zads07]

Unless the owners are planning on using their own money to buy land and then privately build the stadium without using tax dollars, the city does not need another stadium.

[emu steve]

Unless the owners are planning on using their own money to buy land and then privately build the stadium without using tax dollars, the city does not need another stadium.

My understanding on building a MLS stadium:

The building cost is around 200M [[I'm using the D.C. numbers).

I would be surprised if the land say in Corktown would be more than say 25M.

I could see the city offering land.

"My advice" to the perspective owners of a Detroit MLS franchise:

"You can pay me now [[pony up 200M for a stadium) OR you can pay me later [[maybe pay say 100M or more ADDITIONAL for the franchise cost if they wait and not have a soccer-only stadium to show for that 100M). Do the cost-benefit analysis."

[Zads07]

My understanding on building a MLS stadium:

The building cost is around 200M [[I'm using the D.C. numbers) + cost of the land and infrastructure.

I would be surprised if the land say in Corktown would be more than say 25M.

I could see the city offering land + necessary infrastructure.

But that should not be remotely on the mind of city leaders. They just gave away land to Ilitch, it's time to focus on the education of the city, the safety of the city and its residents, not a professional sports team.

[emu steve]

But that should not be remotely on the mind of city leaders. They just gave away land to Ilitch, it's time to focus on the education of the city, the safety of the city and its residents, not a professional sports team.

This is where I disagree with you.

Corktown has the Ford Motor buildings, possible MCS, and my proposal for a MLS stadium.

If all of this starts a 'land rush' where developers are buying land and developing building plans then it would be a big win for the city.

It happens. Builders look for areas where things are starting to percolate.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I don't think there is, at this point, any realistic chance of a soccer specific stadium in Detroit. We might still get an MLS slot [[I'm on record as saying the existing Gilbert-Gores-Ford bid is the strongest overall bid in MLS, maybe ever, if you can get over sharing Ford Field), either the soon-to-be-announced one or the 2 remaining to be named in the next year or so. But beginning a new stadium process now- even if that were the owners' desire, which it isn't- would push the MLS timeline beyond those three slots. And MLS has been very open about there being very likely a long pause after those three before they resume creating new clubs. The Ford Field bid is the only plausible one at this point for the next decade. Before the Fail Jail site was selected [[and then unselected) for a soccer stadium, I though Tiger Stadium site was the logical place to put a MLS stadium in Detroit. But now that is off the table, and I like what's happening there now anyway. It should get a lot of use, too. In the winter, I'd put an outdoor rink there, too.

[emu steve]

I don't think there is, at this point, any realistic chance of a soccer specific stadium in Detroit. We might still get an MLS slot [[I'm on record as saying the existing Gilbert-Gores-Ford bid is the strongest overall bid in MLS, maybe ever, if you can get over sharing Ford Field), either the soon-to-be-announced one or the 2 remaining to be named in the next year or so. But beginning a new stadium process now- even if that were the owners' desire, which it isn't- would push the MLS timeline beyond those three slots. And MLS has been very open about there being very likely a long pause after those three before they resume creating new clubs. The Ford Field bid is the only plausible one at this point for the next decade. Before the Fail Jail site was selected [[and then unselected) for a soccer stadium, I though Tiger Stadium site was the logical place to put a MLS stadium in Detroit. But now that is off the table, and I like what's happening there now anyway. It should get a lot of use, too. In the winter, I'd put an outdoor rink there, too.

Question:

If you, at one time, thought Tiger Stadium site was the logical place why not place it nearby?

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Don't get me wrong, EMU, if I could wave my magic wand and put a stadium somewhere in the Motor City for Arsenal Detroit FC, I would make it Corktown. But I don't think now that there is any MLS in Detroit before 2028 or later [[when MLS may resume expanding), except for Ford Field. The potential "ownership group" [[literally francise operating partners, not club owners) are only pushing Ford Field, and hitting reset on the stadium question would knock us out of the contest, for both the delay of years, and substantial uncertainty it would bring. In the magical perfect world of our choosing, yes, oh yes, I would whole heartedly endorse a Corktown soccer stadium. But facts on the ground say that is not in the cards.

[masterblaster]

Don't get me wrong, EMU, if I could wave my magic wand and put a stadium somewhere in the Motor City for Arsenal Detroit FC, I would make it Corktown. But I don't think now that there is any MLS in Detroit before 2028 or later [[when MLS may resume expanding), except for Ford Field. The potential "ownership group" [[literally francise operating partners, not club owners) are only pushing Ford Field, and hitting reset on the stadium question would knock us out of the contest, for both the delay of years, and substantial uncertainty it would bring. In the magical perfect world of our choosing, yes, oh yes, I would whole heartedly endorse a Corktown soccer stadium. But facts on the ground say that is not in the cards.

The next round of expansion in 2022, in which 2 teams are planned to be added. That gives someone 4 years to assemble land in Corktown and start building a stadium. Remember, a new MLS team can TEMPORARILY play at another venue while the stadium is being finalized/constructed. That league has allowed such an arrangement.

I like the vast parking lot shown in the below link as a location for a stadium - it wouldn't destroy really any urban fabric since it is right along a freeway anyway

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...6!4d-83.069308

I also think $200 million might be an overestimation for the cost for a soccer stadium. The 22,000 seat Houston Dynamo stadium built in 2007 only cost $95 million [[$101 million in 2017 dollars)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBVA_Compass_Stadium

[emu steve]

The next round of expansion in 2022, in which 2 teams are planned to be added. That gives someone 4 years to assemble land in Corktown and start building a stadium. Remember, a new MLS team can TEMPORARILY play at another venue while the stadium is being finalized/constructed. That league has allowed such an arrangement.

I like the vast parking lot shown in the below link as a location for a stadium - it wouldn't destroy really any urban fabric since it is right along a freeway anyway

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...6!4d-83.069308

I also think $200 million might be an overestimation for the cost for a soccer stadium. The 22,000 seat Houston Dynamo stadium built in 2007 only cost $95 million [[$101 million in 2017 dollars)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBVA_Compass_Stadium

I could check Wikipedia for other examples, but the D.C. stadium is quoted at 180 - 195M. Building in the D might be 10% less but by time construction would begin that 10% reduction would vanish.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_Field

EDIT: Orlando did one for $155M.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_City_Stadium

L.A. did one for 350M, but L.A. is L.A. so they spend like there is no tomorrow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banc_o...fornia_Stadium

Agree with you on location. As I have been saying with the Ford buildings, Tiger Stadium development, this 'stadium site'. MCS, and Roosevelt Park would really cause a lot of buzz along Michigan Ave.

I think the area has a good road system with easy access via Michigan Ave., Fisher/Lodge, etc. with a lot of good cross streets like Trumbull, Rosa Parks, 14th street, etc.

I could see multifamily housing going up there, eateries, bars, etc.

[emu steve]

This is case study how a under construction soccer stadium is completely turning around a neighborhood, Buzzards Point, S.W. Washington, D.C.

Aug 10, 2017 - The forgotten peninsula: How D.C.'s Buzzard Point is primed for a makeover. Email; Share ... “There were some really negative uses that were associated with Buzzard Point and it took something like a soccer stadium to come in and get rid of the junk yards and salvage yards and salt domes overnight.

This is from a Google search [[the whole article is behind a air tight pay wall.)

One point I've always made about something 'big' like stadiums, arena, etc. is that they are so big they are 'transformative.'

http://www.akridge.com/property/72/100VStreetSW#description

No developer wants to take down salt domes, etc. Deal with God know what under the soil, etc. and develop that kind of land for say residential usage. It takes something big whereby it is worth doing to cause public and private to get together and make that land develop-able.

Detroit has dealt with similar issues along the river front from industrial sites and the problems which hamper re-development.

[Smirnoff]

Fella's/Fella's.....you see the attendance at the "new" LCA, ask yourself, how many other kick-ball teams have come & gone.....your welcome.

[EGrant]

Fella's/Fella's.....you see the attendance at the "new" LCA, ask yourself, how many other kick-ball teams have come & gone.....your welcome.

Or you could look at the incredible attendance at DCFC games, which is essentially an amateur team, to gauge the region's interest in soccer, or "kick-ball" as you call it...

"your welcome"

[DetroitSoldier]

Or you could look at the incredible attendance at DCFC games, which is essentially an amateur team, to gauge the region's interest in soccer, or "kick-ball" as you call it...

"your welcome"

I remember 2012 when DCFC was the new thing in town and the critics said "just wait until it is not new anymore. It will never work." I was not living here then, but I was a huge supporter of soccer development in America. DCFC did their homework and built an organization designed to succeed through incremental growth.

The club has engaged with every socioeconomic group in town. They continue to not just grow attendance numbers but grow interest in the game through engaging with the community all year long.

I don't care if we have MLS or not. We don't need it for soccer to be a success here. Detroit City FC has proven that they know exactly how to engage with the community while providing high quality soccer. That combination is good for their business and good for the community.

[Zads07]

I remember 2012 when DCFC was the new thing in town and the critics said "just wait until it is not new anymore. It will never work." I was not living here then, but I was a huge supporter of soccer development in America. DCFC did their homework and built an organization designed to succeed through incremental growth.

The club has engaged with every socioeconomic group in town. They continue to not just grow attendance numbers but grow interest in the game through engaging with the community all year long.

I don't care if we have MLS or not. We don't need it for soccer to be a success here. Detroit City FC has proven that they know exactly how to engage with the community while providing high quality soccer. That combination is good for their business and good for the community.

Absolutely agree 100%. I love the atmosphere of the matches, the fans are incredible and DCFC has built something amazing. It shows that soccer can be a success without MLS.

Go check out a game this summer, I promise it's something you will never forget.

[swingline]

I remember 2012 when DCFC was the new thing in town and the critics said "just wait until it is not new anymore. It will never work." I was not living here then, but I was a huge supporter of soccer development in America. DCFC did their homework and built an organization designed to succeed through incremental growth.

The club has engaged with every socioeconomic group in town. They continue to not just grow attendance numbers but grow interest in the game through engaging with the community all year long.

I don't care if we have MLS or not. We don't need it for soccer to be a success here. Detroit City FC has proven that they know exactly how to engage with the community while providing high quality soccer. That combination is good for their business and good for the community.

DCFC has definitely achieved a lot. It's a well run organization and has nurtured a compelling local soccer culture. Many of its 4th Division peers struggle to draw a few hundred fans to games or even find any jersey sponsors. DCFC is drawing over 5000 per game and earns impressive sponsor revenue. But to suggest that a metro area of over 4 million people should be satisfied with an amateur club playing a May-July schedule as its soccer ceiling is nonsense. 4th Division US soccer is "high quality soccer" only if one is comparing it to college soccer or youth travel soccer. The Northern Guard has done great things for DCFC and soccer in Detroit but it is just silly to buy into the group's argument that support for an MLS franchise is some kind of sellout to corporatism. Detroit deserves to participate in soccer played at its highest level in the US. We need an MLS team.

[DetroitSoldier]

DCFC has definitely achieved a lot. It's a well run organization and has nurtured a compelling local soccer culture. Many of its 4th Division peers struggle to draw a few hundred fans to games or even find any jersey sponsors. DCFC is drawing over 5000 per game and earns impressive sponsor revenue. But to suggest that a metro area of over 4 million people should be satisfied with an amateur club playing a May-July schedule as its soccer ceiling is nonsense. 4th Division US soccer is "high quality soccer" only if one is comparing it to college soccer or youth travel soccer. The Northern Guard has done great things for DCFC and soccer in Detroit but it is just silly to buy into the group's argument that support for an MLS franchise is some kind of sellout to corporatism. Detroit deserves to participate in soccer played at its highest level in the US. We need an MLS team.

I used to live in Seattle, which had a highly a highly successful club that is well ingrained in the community from pre-MLS to now being at the top of MLS. My friends there frequently comment on how the DCFC model compares similarly to their history. A lot of then dislike MLS and their operation for being far too corporate.

DCFC ownership has made public their intentions to move up the pyramid. A lot depends on the legal battles going on in US Soccer right now. But honestly I would rather have a home grown club at a lower level doing big things in the community over a club that comes gift wrapped from a billionaire with press releases setting the tone for the city's soccer culture.

But to each their own I guess.

[Towne Cluber]

I used to live in Seattle, which had a highly a highly successful club that is well ingrained in the community from pre-MLS to now being at the top of MLS. My friends there frequently comment on how the DCFC model compares similarly to their history. A lot of then dislike MLS and their operation for being far too corporate.

DCFC ownership has made public their intentions to move up the pyramid. A lot depends on the legal battles going on in US Soccer right now. But honestly I would rather have a home grown club at a lower level doing big things in the community over a club that comes gift wrapped from a billionaire with press releases setting the tone for the city's soccer culture.

But to each their own I guess.

So, Detroit shouldn't have an MLS team because your friends from Seattle don't like it? A Detroit MLS team with local ownership wouldn't be home grown? An MLS team with billionaire ownership couldn't/wouldn't do big things in the community? And this is the type of thought process that should set the tone for the city's soccer [[and anything else for that matter) culture?

[DetroitSoldier]

So, Detroit shouldn't have an MLS team because your friends from Seattle don't like it? A Detroit MLS team with local ownership wouldn't be home grown? An MLS team with billionaire ownership couldn't/wouldn't do big things in the community? And this is the type of thought process that should set the tone for the city's soccer [[and anything else for that matter) culture?

That is not what I said. The point is that there are pros and cons to MLS. Sure it is a higher level of play. But the non-traditional financial structure of the league, designed to promote competition, limits clubs from having complete control of their organization. The concern from many is that if MLS comes in and creates a club here, it will lack the organically built affection between the club and the community. In the soccer world that bond is more important than wins and losses. Hell, the team I had season tickets for in Germany sold out their stadium in the second division because the club was more important than the league they played in. It would be nice to have that passion in this city. We have it with DCFC. We can have it with MLS but I dont think it would happen as easily because of the overly casual nature of American sports fans

[Towne Cluber]

That is not what I said. The point is that there are pros and cons to MLS. Sure it is a higher level of play. But the non-traditional financial structure of the league, designed to promote competition, limits clubs from having complete control of their organization. The concern from many is that if MLS comes in and creates a club here, it will lack the organically built affection between the club and the community. In the soccer world that bond is more important than wins and losses. Hell, the team I had season tickets for in Germany sold out their stadium in the second division because the club was more important than the league they played in. It would be nice to have that passion in this city. We have it with DCFC. We can have it with MLS but I dont think it would happen as easily because of the overly casual nature of American sports fans

The readers can decide based on the words in print. Your follow up is better reasoned, yet still significantly flawed, than your previous comments. First, DCFC has a far more non-traditional financial structure than either MLS or a Detroit ownership group. Second, the concerns about "organic affection" are from some [[certainly not the majority) of area soccer fans, or potential fans. Your comments about the soccer world are fair--however, American soccer [[as well as Detroit soccer in particular) is looking to appeal to the mainstream, rather than a select few. On the contrary, to attempt to artificially control soccer's growth is what would limit it from developing a large, passionate fan base.

[EGrant]

I think there are many, many ways to be a soccer fan in this city, and I resent the narrative that if you don't care about DCFC, you aren't a real soccer fan. Some of the most passionate soccer fans I know, who get up at 6 am to watch their favorite European team, or kids who love playing the game don't give a damn about DCFC, and that's perfectly fine.

[emu steve]

I think there are many, many ways to be a soccer fan in this city, and I resent the narrative that if you don't care about DCFC, you aren't a real soccer fan. Some of the most passionate soccer fans I know, who get up at 6 am to watch their favorite European team, or kids who love playing the game don't give a damn about DCFC, and that's perfectly fine.

I see real 'silos' coming if Detroit gets a MLS franchise.

Some will follow DCFC. Some MLS team. Some will follow the Europeans.

Hopefully like customers at Baskins Robbins everyone can pick their favorite flavor.

[Whitehouse]

If you want football [[yeah, i'm from Europe. We still call it football) you need a dedicated stadium to the sport itself. Not a multipurpose stadium with a track inside. At the least the fans need to be close to the action.

I'm a bit amazed how in a short span of time the popularity of football has risen. You see sold out stadiums in LA, Portland. I have no idea how things will develop in Detroit. I don't know how big a stadium should be. Most of the MLS stadiums have 20000 or more seats, or can be expanded with more seats.

A healthy rivalry can be created between Detroit and Chicago or Columbus Crew and Toronto.

[EGrant]

The Crew are getting moved to Austin, which is a sore subject in the MLS right now.