Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

[Spartan]

UPDATE of UPDATE:
Soccer Stadium on Failed Wayne County Jail Site Proposal is back in Play.

Jump to updated discussion >>

UPDATE: Soccer Stadium at stalled county jail site dead?
Wayne County moves forward with Detroit jail project



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Preliminary agreement reached to bring a USL Pro [[3rd tier) team to Detroit. They would build a 5,000 seat stadium. Maybe Corktown? Cass Corridor? Near Motor City Casino? Exciting news and maybe one step closer to potential MLS expansion.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...vision-league#

[swingline]

It's very interesting that Dan Duggan is looking to base this new team in downtown Detroit. From the Crain's article:

“The plan is to make sure we have a solid product that will make money from Day 1, win on and off the field, and draw enough fan support, corporate and civic support to follow [[Orlando to becoming an MLS team)” Duggan said. “Our plan is to show MLS within five years that we have all the necessary components to be considered for a franchise.

“MLS will not come to Detroit just because someone builds a stadium. MLS has made it very clear that without proven fan and corporate support, there will be no team. This is Detroit’s one opportunity to show the soccer world that we are ready, willing and able to support pro soccer as a passionate sport and not just a hobby to many.”

Detroit City FC and its ownership have made huge progress in developing the kind of fan support and soccer culture that attracts MLS interest. And they've done it in downtown. They've build a good foundation and created some real soccer brand equity. But, there's not a huge overlap between Detroit City and Michigan Bucks fan bases. Does Mr. Duggan work collaboratively with Detroit City FC, buy them out, run them out of town, or what? Curious. It's doubtful that both a 3d Division and a 4th Division team can successfully coexist downtown.

[emu steve]

Preliminary agreement reached to bring a USL Pro [[3rd tier) team to Detroit. They would build a 5,000 seat stadium. Maybe Corktown? Cass Corridor? Near Motor City Casino? Exciting news and maybe one step closer to potential MLS expansion.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...vision-league#

The 'side issue' is where are the Ilitches on this? Do they want in on it????

They control so much land in the entertainment district. Seems like the Ilitiches could have their MC Casino, and then a soccer stadium and an arena and a ball park... Sounds like an 'entertainment district' to me.

I'm curious if even Gilbert wants a piece of the action? He knows how to acquire land and has pretty deep pockets. [[His pockets don't seem to have a bottom).

Maybe do a public stock sale to raise say 5M if some deep pocket folks don't step forward.

[emu steve]

One other thought:

The site would need to be sufficient for a 5K stadium but ultimately large enough to expand to a 20K+ stadium.

[emu steve]

Preliminary agreement reached to bring a USL Pro [[3rd tier) team to Detroit. They would build a 5,000 seat stadium. Maybe Corktown? Cass Corridor? Near Motor City Casino? Exciting news and maybe one step closer to potential MLS expansion.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...vision-league#

How about Cass, Leyard, Henry, and 2nd block with additional acreage toward the Fisher, if needed?

Parking to fill the space from the edge of the stadium to the freeway?

[DetroitPlanner]

It would be nice to see them upgrade WSU's football stadium as a public-private partnership arrangement.

[Hypestyles]

hopefully pro soccer will come to Detroit- and the team[[s?) will have quite a bit of urban centered community outreach regarding youth soccer programs, especially at the high school level. It would be cool for some DPS schools to develop a competitive varsity soccer program.

[emu steve]

It would be nice to see them upgrade WSU's football stadium as a public-private partnership arrangement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a stadium built for FB might be too small for a soccer field unless there is extra room between the field and stands.

Adams Field does have a track inside the stadium.

[DetroitPlanner]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a stadium built for FB might be too small for a soccer field unless there is extra room between the field and stands.

Adams Field does have a track inside the stadium.

You can build dual purpose stadiums. It is done all the time. WSU's current stadium is not ideal for college football. By partnering there is less risk for both parties. D.C., Seattle and Boston are all shared facilities with the NFL. Orlando plays in the Citrus Bowl.

[emu steve]

You can build dual purpose stadiums. It is done all the time. WSU's current stadium is not ideal for college football. By partnering there is less risk for both parties. D.C., Seattle and Boston are all shared facilities with the NFL. Orlando plays in the Citrus Bowl.

I understand your point. I think. Build a new FB/soccer stadium where WSU has their athletic facilities?

I'm curious if an owner would want that? Everyone wants to be near downtown, I think.

My point was that one can't get a soccer field into Adams Field, as configured, because of the track inside the stadium.

[DetroitPlanner]

I understand your point. I think. Build a new FB/soccer stadium where WSU has their athletic facilities?

I'm curious if an owner would want that? Everyone wants to be near downtown, I think.

My point was that one can't get a soccer field into Adams Field, as configured, because of the track inside the stadium.

The land is too valuable to build a one sport small stadium like that. It would never generate that kind of revenue it would take to justify that much of an investment. There are plenty of places near the WSU site that would benefit and it is not that far of a walk from most of Cass Corridor redevelopments.

[Danny]

MLS is not that televised popular back then and its not popular now. David Beckham tried to make MLS popular to everyone. But only a handful of Americans have seen Beckham played like Micheal Jordan in the field. After he left MLS is back to square one. In Detroit [[which is majority black). soccer or [[futbol) is not in city's interest unless we have a Hispanic-Arab-East Indian-or East Asian majority. Getting a pro-soccer team in Detroit is going a very difficult challenge:

1. Will this MLS pro soccer team sell.

2. Will this MLS pro soccer team get television rights.

2 Will this MLS pro soccer team get commercial rights and sponsorships.


Surely a MLS pro soccer team can fill up a 5,000 seat stadium, but won't be enough to reach the eyes of Detroiters. Look what happen to former WNBA team Detroit Shock. Nobody [[not even me) isn't interested.

By the way soccer [[futbol) is very popular in most Hispanic, Middle East, European Indian, Australian and Far East Nations. and its televised. In America soccer is popular in most kids sports just for fun and its not a guarantee career.

[Spartan]

MLS is not that televised popular back then and its not popular now. David Beckham tried to make MLS popular to everyone. But only a handful of Americans have seen Beckham played like Micheal Jordan in the field. After he left MLS is back to square one. In Detroit [[which is majority black). soccer or [[futbol) is not in city's interest unless we have a Hispanic-Arab-East Indian-or East Asian majority. Getting a pro-soccer team in Detroit is going a very difficult challenge:

1. Will this MLS pro soccer team sell.

2. Will this MLS pro soccer team get television rights.

2 Will this MLS pro soccer team get commercial rights and sponsorships.


Surely a MLS pro soccer team can fill up a 5,000 seat stadium, but won't be enough to reach the eyes of Detroiters. Look what happen to former WNBA team Detroit Shock. Nobody [[not even me) isn't interested.

By the way soccer [[futbol) is very popular in most Hispanic, Middle East, European Indian, Australian and Far East Nations. and its televised. In America soccer is popular in most kids sports just for fun and its not a guarantee career.

Uh, no one goes to WNBA games in any city. MLS draws about the same size crowds as NHL and NBA and soccer has been slowly gaining popularity for quite a few years. The biggest problem MLS has is that there are so many other leagues to compete with. It's hard to convince Americans to watch because they're all too busy watching EPL, La Liga, etc. MLS isn't "back to square one" because Beckham left, it's been showing steady attendance growth. This year should be good for popularity as well, with the World Cup coming up.

[emu steve]

The land is too valuable to build a one sport small stadium like that. It would never generate that kind of revenue it would take to justify that much of an investment. There are plenty of places near the WSU site that would benefit and it is not that far of a walk from most of Cass Corridor redevelopments.

I understand your point, BUT, if the 'grand idea' is ultimately a MLS franchise the stadium can't be near WSU, etc.

It would have to be within the 'entertainment district'.

Shall we build a 5k stadium now and then have to buy land within the entertainment district in say 5 years for a 20k+ stadium [[and at inflated prices to boot)?

I believe, now, that the Gratiot area land is too valuable for a soccer stadium, but some of the unused land Ilitch controls isn't that valuable - will probably be undeveloped for the next 5 - 10 years. "Rome wasn't built in a day..."

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I oppose another soccer club in Detroit, as I think it will ultimately hinder Detroit's chances of landing an MLS team in the near term. I think Detroit can sustain an MLS franchise. The best place to put a stadium, in my opinion, would be the Tiger Stadium site. The land in Midtown just north of the new hockey arena or downtown west of the Fox could work, too, but the land values are jumping too quickly. As others have noted, MLS now has a working business model, attendance is strong for most of the league [[huge in Seattle!), and there is an abundant, mostly low-level soccer culture in Detroit. National TV rights for MLS are sought after; MLS also airs on cable sports or local broadcast TV & radio in every market. Having another minor league team raises the risk that if it doesn't succeed, it will be thought we can't support an MLS team; if it does succeed, people will think the soccer market is over-saturated in Detroit.

[emu steve]

I oppose another soccer club in Detroit, as I think it will ultimately hinder Detroit's chances of landing an MLS team in the near term. I think Detroit can sustain an MLS franchise. The best place to put a stadium, in my opinion, would be the Tiger Stadium site. The land in Midtown just north of the new hockey arena or downtown west of the Fox could work, too, but the land values are jumping too quickly. As others have noted, MLS now has a working business model, attendance is strong for most of the league [[huge in Seattle!), and there is an abundant, mostly low-level soccer culture in Detroit. National TV rights for MLS are sought after; MLS also airs on cable sports or local broadcast TV & radio in every market. Having another minor league team raises the risk that if it doesn't succeed, it will be thought we can't support an MLS team; if it does succeed, people will think the soccer market is over-saturated in Detroit.

I'm not sure if I'm following this correctly:

Duggan [[mayor's bro) owns an amateur team in Pontiac with a working agreement for the Columbus team.

Does that team get moved?

Why would Duggan want to own two teams competing with each other? Could the Pontiac team could become a feeder for the Detroit team? What would be the financial implications of giving up a working agreement with the Columbus team?

And maybe bigger what happens to the Detroit fourth tier team that Duggan does NOT own???? Would Duggan buy the team out [[e.g., franchise and players)??

Stock a new team with the best players from the Pontiac and Detroit teams????

[Spartan]

I'm not sure if I'm following this correctly:

Duggan [[mayor's bro) owns an amateur team in Pontiac with a working agreement for the Columbus team.

Does that team get moved?

Why would Duggan want to own two teams competing with each other? Could the Pontiac team could become a feeder for the Detroit team? What would be the financial implications of giving up a working agreement with the Columbus team?

And maybe bigger what happens to the Detroit fourth tier team that Duggan does NOT own???? Would Duggan buy the team out [[e.g., franchise and players)??

Stock a new team with the best players from the Pontiac and Detroit teams????

The Bucks and this new team wouldn't really be competitors since they are at different levels. I think the ultimate idea is that they draw well, establish a fan base and sponsorships, and eventually look to make the move to MLS, or at least NASL in a few years [[see Orlando).

[emu steve]

The Bucks and this new team wouldn't really be competitors since they are at different levels. I think the ultimate idea is that they draw well, establish a fan base and sponsorships, and eventually look to make the move to MLS, or at least NASL in a few years [[see Orlando).

How would the new team get stocked? This is important if the team is to be competitive early.

On 2nd thought so long as a MLS team isn't in Detroit, I agree the Pontiac team isn't a competitor. Each have their own markets.

I find it hard to believe, though, that two Detroit teams though, could co-exist maybe blocks apart. [[the other, Detroit FC). I would think that Detroit FC would get bought out and would help stock the new team

[ABetterDetroit]

Major League Soccer is forming a expansion committee and according to this article Detroit getting a team will be up for discussion.

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-so...-mls-expansion

[emu steve]

Major League Soccer is forming a expansion committee and according to this article Detroit getting a team will be up for discussion.

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-so...-mls-expansion

As I have posted previously, the new stadium in D.C. being built [[last I checked the land was being cleared) costs about 150M NOT counting land, infrastructure costs, etc.

So reading this article, getting a franchise for Detroit won't be cheap. Someone needs deep pockets.

Say 150 - 175M for a stadium. ? for land. Say 150M franchise fee?

350M of 2016 dollars????

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

ABettererDetroit, thanks for the post. I would LOVE for Detroit to get a team. There are some real challenges, but I think it's possible. Demographically, I think Detroit would support a team. The challenge is that we would need an owner* with deep pockets to fund a stadium and sustain early year operational losses. Complicating the stadium equation is the rapidly shrinking list of soccer-stadium size plots around downtown or midtown to build on. A few years ago, there were many candidates. Now, there are many fewer and the prices are much higher. Realistically, a downtown or near downtown seems imperative to me. Detroit's ethnically mixed and young urban professional population are exactly the people who would go to games.

My dream scenario is that Gilbert would plunk down the money for fail jail [[I bet it would cost him $100M upfront, plus a few staggered payments of $10-20M for the other area buildings like Frank Murphy HoJ as they were emptied out). He would then build a soccer specific stadium, which could also house concerts and events. And he could then build some hotel, retail, restaurants, etc on the fringes, and channel as many of those patrons as he wants to his casino. "Arsenal Detroit at Jack Casino Stadium". Not predicting that will happen, just dreaming.

*MLS has a different ownership structure than the other major sports leagues, and the "owners" really are licensed MLS franchise operators, not literally the owner in the same sense that they are in other sports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_...ccer#Ownership

[ticktock]

I'm curious if even Gilbert wants a piece of the action? He knows how to acquire land and has pretty deep pockets. [[His pockets don't seem to have a bottom).

Gilbert has already stated that he has no interest in soccer. The only Detroit team he would be interest in buying are the Tigers. Which is not out of the question if the Ilitches decide to sell the team once Mike is gone.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

As I have posted previously, the new stadium in D.C. being built [[last I checked the land was being cleared) costs about 150M NOT counting land, infrastructure costs, etc.

So reading this article, getting a franchise for Detroit won't be cheap. Someone needs deep pockets.

Say 150 - 175M for a stadium. ? for land. Say 150M franchise fee?

350M of 2016 dollars????

The cost, of course, is the kicker [[sorry about that). While MLS has shown some flexibility on the stadium issue, that is probably not operative here. There is no good option for a temporary facility. Comerica Park, I suppose, could double as a playing field, like RFK or Yankee Stadium. Ford Field would be great except for the issue of it being an indoor, turf field. I think every MLS team plays outdoors, and most [[I think) play on grass. But if a plan could be set up to eventually work towards an independent stadium, I don't think that would be an obstacle. The stadium could be paid for over time, assuming a responsible operator put forward and began work on a stadium plan. If I were the operator, I would probably try to use Comerica Park, and perhaps play a summer game or two at Spartan Stadium and Michigan Stadium, until a permanent stadium was built.

As for the franchise fee, that is a steep cost. I think there are a very limited number of potential Detroit or Michigan based candidates. Gilbert would be the most likely. The Ilitches would be a possibility, especially if the next generation would seek to fully split into separate pizza, casino, and sports/entertainment divisions. Tom Gores would have the money; I am not sure he has the interest. The Meijer or Devos families could do it [[although based in West Michigan). And there is an outside chance that a company not based in Detroit or Michigan could see it as an investment here, although I strongly favor having a local owner [[it helps to keep a team from moving).

The biggest challenge for an MLS franchise here is identifying who the franchisee would be; if one steps up, I think Detroit is a great choice. If one doesn't, I don't see any amount of study by MLS making a franchise here work.

Note: I think St. Louis is a very challenging city for MLS [[it is another market mentioned in the article). They lost an NFL team, although to be fair it was not for lack of a fan base. And in the same state, Kansas City is a real success story for the MLS with a beautiful new stadium. Here's to hoping!

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Gilbert has already stated that he has no interest in soccer.

I'm not so sure about that. First, if one is considering investing money in something, one doesn't usually announce it. It drives prices of anything up. Second, even if he has no interest in soccer, he might be interested if it seemed like a sound investment or way to draw people into downtown, boosting revenue and value of his other properties and businesses. I am not saying he is in any way interested. Just that a public denial is potentially not sincere.

Secondly, I doubt the Ilitches would sell the Tigers but not the Wings. I would think that they would either be all in or all out in terms of sports. But who knows. Generational changes and large checks can be big drivers of change.

[ticktock]

Don't mean to put a damper on this idea, but Detroit is way down on the list of MLS expansion. It would take a miracle to add a team in the next 5-10 years. Minnesota, Atlanta, LA and Miami are getting a team for sure. Even Sacramento and San Antonio are ahead of us when it comes to having actual ownership and stadium plan. St. Louis after losing the Rams are also in the mix by trying to use part of the tax money for the proposed NFL stadium to go towards a new soccer stadium.

St. Louis at one time being considered the hub of US soccer

https://lafc.com/stadium/

http://www.newstpaulstadium.com/

http://www.builtforsacramento.com/

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...e68064887.html

http://www.sacurrent.com/Blogs/archi...on-to-28-teams

If it's gonna happen, first we would need a USL team [[which is division 3) and prove that we can support a pro soccer team. Detroit City FC has some good support, but they're basically an amateur team playing in the NPSL Great Lakes Conference against teams from Ann Arbor, Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo. Most of these teams play in high school football stadiums. Moving to another high school stadium in Hamtramck won't help their cause. Our only hope is to build an expandable 5,000 seat stadium for a USL team with ownership that has deep pockets and is truly committed to landing an MLS team down the road. DCFC ownership have already stated that they are not interest in that. They basically wanna continue as a semi-pro community team like FC United of Manchester, a club which was started by former Man United fans who were opposed to American ownership taking over their club.