Pro soccer coming to Detroit?

**DetroitSoldier** · August-03-18, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

Many of the Big 4 pro teams aren't sustainable? Which one or two MLS teams are on the brink right now? How do you know that a team such as DCFC wouldn't eventually fail? Do tell...

As to culture, are you trying to claim that Big 4 pro teams [[or MLS teams for that matter) don't have a culture? What type of culture are you speaking of with DCFC? Hopefully not the Northern Guard, because that is not most peoples idea of culture...and likewise, the NG would not want most people.

MLS has lost Tampa, Miami, and Chivas in 24 years. Currently on the brink is Columbus [[for a variety of reasons not just financial) who will likely relocate. I have traveled to more than a dozen MLS venues and experienced sub 50% seating capacities in Dallas, Chicago, Columbus, and New England [[even with reduced availability due to the stadium situation), and San Jose. Does lack of butts in seats mean a lack of stability? No. But it gives the appearance of a lack of interest or a failure to buy into the program. You might be able to survive this if you are the 124 year old Detroit Tigers, but what if you are the 5ish year old Detroit MLS club, whose shiny new bells and whistles have gone silent, who has failed to make the playoffs or struggles to bring in fans? These dry spells are inevitable for most teams in sports. What makes soccer successful worldwide above other sports is that with only 17-20 home matches a season, the dedicated fanbases, regardless of league/division, put a priority on every single game. This has not exactly been the case with MLS.

The big 4 leagues, in most cases, have fan bases with decades of history and tradition. The MLS fanbases have ranged from rabid passion to ambivalence, but generally fall somewhere in the middle that I would call "stable". Some have struggled to gain traction despite on-the-pitch success in places like Chicago, Columbus [[both cup winners) and Dallas. Hell, Dallas resorted to selling visiting team jerseys in their club shop! My whole point is the places where expansion works best are the places where the passion grows organically like Seattle or Portland [[histories before MLS) or Atlanta who has embraced and survived alongside the NASL Silverbacks, as opposed to "Hey X city. Here is Y club. You will like it we promise. We don't know what your attachment is going to be during our growing pains, but please spend your money here rain or shine."

MLS can absolutely work in Detroit. But a haphazard collection of billionaires [[perceived to be) only coming together because of their prior connection of team ownership and liquid assets, begrudgingly considering retrofit for a 20 year old stadium to meet the bare minimum requests of the league, without supporting the soccer culture that already exists from the youth levels through the top...why wouldn't a serious soccer fan like myself be just a little bit concerned?

As far as NGS...each club is going to develop a culture unique to itself. NGS is a loud, but small portion of the DCFC fanbase. There are 4,000 people attending games that are not affiliated with that group. I don't believe they are the end all be all of Detroit's current soccer culture climate.

**Towne Cluber** · August-03-18, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

MLS has lost Tampa, Miami, and Chivas in 24 years. Currently on the brink is Columbus [[for a variety of reasons not just financial) who will likely relocate. I have traveled to more than a dozen MLS venues and experienced sub 50% seating capacities in Dallas, Chicago, Columbus, and New England [[even with reduced availability due to the stadium situation), and San Jose. Does lack of butts in seats mean a lack of stability? No. But it gives the appearance of a lack of interest or a failure to buy into the program. You might be able to survive this if you are the 124 year old Detroit Tigers, but what if you are the 5ish year old Detroit MLS club, whose shiny new bells and whistles have gone silent, who has failed to make the playoffs or struggles to bring in fans? These dry spells are inevitable for most teams in sports. What makes soccer successful worldwide above other sports is that with only 17-20 home matches a season, the dedicated fanbases, regardless of league/division, put a priority on every single game. This has not exactly been the case with MLS.

The big 4 leagues, in most cases, have fan bases with decades of history and tradition. The MLS fanbases have ranged from rabid passion to ambivalence, but generally fall somewhere in the middle that I would call "stable". Some have struggled to gain traction despite on-the-pitch success in places like Chicago, Columbus [[both cup winners) and Dallas. Hell, Dallas resorted to selling visiting team jerseys in their club shop! My whole point is the places where expansion works best are the places where the passion grows organically like Seattle or Portland [[histories before MLS) or Atlanta who has embraced and survived alongside the NASL Silverbacks, as opposed to "Hey X city. Here is Y club. You will like it we promise. We don't know what your attachment is going to be during our growing pains, but please spend your money here rain or shine."

MLS can absolutely work in Detroit. But a haphazard collection of billionaires [[perceived to be) only coming together because of their prior connection of team ownership and liquid assets, begrudgingly considering retrofit for a 20 year old stadium to meet the bare minimum requests of the league, without supporting the soccer culture that already exists from the youth levels through the top...why wouldn't a serious soccer fan like myself be just a little bit concerned?

As far as NGS...each club is going to develop a culture unique to itself. NGS is a loud, but small portion of the DCFC fanbase. There are 4,000 people attending games that are not affiliated with that group. I don't believe they are the end all be all of Detroit's current soccer culture climate.

MLS average attendance is still triple the highest DCFC attendance. Even the lowest MLS attendance number is double the highest DCFC attendance. Sure a large number of people in a smaller venue gives the appearance of greater interest. But, in comparison, the actual numbers are the reality of the matter.

Likewise, after a few years of DCFC, will the draw of doing something outside of the mainstream wear off, especially after their fan base starts to get older? After MLS comes to town? Will a much smaller organization [[DCFC) be able to withstand a downturn?

Also, billionaires don't get together haphazardly for a project that will cost them hundreds of millions of dollars.

**EGrant** · August-05-18, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

I don't believe they are the end all be all of Detroit's current soccer culture climate.

They sure think they are...

**Zads07** · August-05-18, 04:51 PM

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...aybe-this-fall

News on DCFC possibly going pro

**swingline** · August-06-18, 01:24 PM

DCFC still seems to be in the wishful thinking stage regarding a move to professional soccer. If they intend to stay within the USSF pyramid, the owners must be willing to sell at least 35% of the club to an owner with a net worth of $10 million [[$20 million if they want to join the D-2 USL). USL D-3 claims that it will begin play next year but they only have six confirmed clubs out of the minimum eight. The league originally claimed that it was looking to locate in communities of less than 1 million population. That seems to have gone by the wayside given that they are now looking to fill in with MLS reserve teams located near their parent clubs. Of course any move within the pyramid begs the issue that DCFC has never confirmed that it would be willing to sell equity. Are they looking to join a non-sanctioned league? Where will the money come from?

**hybridy** · October-18-18, 03:05 PM

Report: Detroit MLS expansion bid nixes Ford Field retractable roof idea as too risky

Retrofitting Ford Field with a retractable roof isn't worth the risk to convince Major League Soccer to grant Detroit an expansion team, the wealthy businessmen behind the effort reportedly have determined.Dan Gilbert and Tom Gores, the Detroit billionaires and pro basketball team owners who have been seeking an MLS team for the city since 2016, sent a Sept. 24 letter saying as much to MLS Commissioner Don Garber and MLS President and Deputy Commissioner Mark Abbott, according to a report from the Detroit Free Press.
The Detroit bid will "not move forward with this proposed retrofit, because the risks that would inhere to such an undertaking would substantially outweigh the rewards," the letter said, according to the Free Press.

**hybridy** · October-19-18, 02:57 PM

Bid would investment $50 million for soccer academy at Palmer Park

Local billionaire businessmen have promised Major League Soccer they will spend $95 million, including $50 million to build a soccer training and academy facility at the corner of Woodward Avenue and Seven Mile Road and an additional $20 million to create 100 youth soccer fields across the city in their bid to land an expansion team.

They would spend $25 million to retrofit Ford Field to accommodate a new MLS team, but won't build a retractable roof because it's not worth the hassle.

**southen** · October-19-18, 03:50 PM

As someone who plays in multiple soccer leagues in the city I would welcome this investment. A lot of the fields that we play on are in atrocious shape and beyond soccer they could be used kids doing any number of activities.

**401don** · October-19-18, 05:14 PM

I assume it was as obvious to Gilbert and Gores as most of us that a retractable roof at Ford Field would never work and they were just going through the motions to appear that all options were being investigated in their desire for a franchise.

**K-slice** · October-20-18, 10:04 AM

MLS should be bending over backwards to put a team in Detroit and break into what would seem to be a very favorable market for them. If MLS want to cry about artificial turf and having to share a stadium then they can keep granting teams to small markets like Cinci.

**Bham1982** · October-20-18, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by K-slice

populations by msIf MLS want to cry about artificial turf and having to share a stadium then they can keep granting teams to small markets like Cinci.

Cincy has 2.5 million people and Dayton has nearly a million, so we aren't talking a gigantic difference in population.

And population is just one factor. Obviously you need a soccer stadium, and Detroit doesn't have it.

**Zads07** · October-22-18, 09:10 AM

Detroit doesn't need another stadium. Taxpayers were once again duped by Ilitch, twice now, to build a stadium with public funding. If Gilber and Gores want a stadium, they better build it with their own money. Otherwise, NOPE.

Also, has anyone not realized DCFC bought and restored an old hockey rink outside of downtown, to help with youth and adult leagues? Great, if Gilbert and Gores want to put money into the community, I love it. But to put that out there and say it'll only happen if they get a team, why not just do it now to grow the game here, if he's so passionate about it?

**JonWylie** · October-22-18, 11:14 AM

If we get a soccer stadium, I really don't think we need to put it downtown. There are so many places around Detroit it could go and try to build up different areas rather than cram another stadium downtown

**ABetterDetroit** · October-23-18, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zads07

Great, if Gilbert and Gores want to put money into the community, I love it. But to put that out there and say it'll only happen if they get a team, why not just do it now to grow the game here, if he's so passionate about it?

Good point, why wait?

Proving commitment to the sport in the city immediately would be a solid move in the right direction. I would bet MLS would be impressed. Don’t leave out the Ford family, they are officially part of the MLS bid now. Lots could be done to to show good faith right away. It’s a sport of the future, skip the promises of “if we can do this THEN we will _____!!!”. That’s the old school crap around here that many have grown tired of.

**EGrant** · October-23-18, 10:45 PM

I'm assuming the academy would be directly tied to the MLS team in Detroit, so it might be putting the carriage ahead of the horse as far as the plan goes.

However, it would be an incredible move to fund an academy without an MLS team in the area. For context, all but one MLS academy is free for the kids within it. MLS teams subsidize academies as a way to develop players within their own pipelines [[which can have positive financial ramifications if a player makes it to the MLS). 99% of the rest of youth soccer academies are pay to play, for-profit institutions; they all charge lots of money and require tons of expensive travel for participants [[and parents). We've managed to take the world's most popular and accessible game and limit it to the upper class in America.

It would be an awesome move to build and fund the academy now, but I think without the MLS team to ensure long-term sustainability, it's unlikely to happen.

**Towne Cluber** · October-23-18, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

That’s the old school crap around here that many have grown tired of.

The same could be said of the having your hand out while cursing them at the same time routine.

**ABetterDetroit** · October-24-18, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Towne Cluber

The same could be said of the having your hand out while cursing them at the same time routine.

Right you are Towne Cluber!

The Ilitch mistake shouldn’t be repeated. They did not perform in a timely manner. I’m sure the “cursing them” commenced on the Ilitch side when their own property blight was finally ticketed and the failures of their promises went to press in the papers.

Let’s slow down some on the multi hundred million dollar “handouts” to billionaires. There are a few other serious problems in this state and city that need to be addressed besides taxpayer subsidized parking lots by the dozens.

**Towne Cluber** · October-24-18, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Right you are Towne Cluber!

The Ilitch mistake shouldn’t be repeated. They did not perform in a timely manner. I’m sure the “cursing them” commenced on the Ilitch side when their own property blight was finally ticketed and the failures of their promises went to press in the papers.

Let’s slow down some on the multi hundred million dollar “handouts” to billionaires. There are a few other serious problems in this state and city that need to be addressed besides taxpayer subsidized parking lots by the dozens.

If you’re going to be morally consistent and honest, Gilbert has sat on the Hudson’s site for years and only started work this year. His Monroe site is still vacant. Ford could have bought and done something with the train station several years ago. Those various Avenue of Fashion prospective businesses and developers have been moving at a snail’s pace. Councilwoman Lopez could have fixed up her other house awhile ago. Heck even Garlin Gilchrist could have acted a lot more quickly on his abandoned rental property!

**hybridy** · August-20-19, 11:57 AM

Detroit passed over again for Major League Soccer team

St. Louis is the latest city to land a new MLS team amid the league's campaign to add more teams around the country. MLS commissioner Don Garber announced the new team Tuesday in St. Louis.

"I've been in regular conversations with [Detroit]," Garber told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch in March. "And we still struggle with their stadium plan. We think that in order for us to be successful in that city, we need a soccer-specific stadium."

**EGrant** · August-20-19, 12:15 PM

I'm torn. I'd love to see an MLS franchise in Detroit, but we absolutely do not need another stadium taking up space downtown.

**stinkytofu** · August-20-19, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by EGrant

I'm torn. I'd love to see an MLS franchise in Detroit, but we absolutely do not need another stadium taking up space downtown.

I wonder if they could use it for soccer + outdoor summer concert venue?

I'm of the belief that Ford Field is a terrible idea...so I support MLS' hesitancy. It would be a very stale soccer environment. If we get MLS we need a new privately funded small stadium. Doesn't even necessarily need to be downtown...

**Gistok** · August-20-19, 12:48 PM

Outdoor summer concert venues are handled by either Comerica Park [[large), DTE Energy Theatre, Chene Park, Freedom Hill and Meadowbrook Music Theatre. We really don't need another one.

**DetroitSoldier** · August-20-19, 12:54 PM

I've been an MLS season ticket holder in the past. Trust me, you dont want that economic model of sports franchise in this city.

**masterblaster** · August-20-19, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by stinkytofu

I wonder if they could use it for soccer + outdoor summer concert venue?

I'm of the belief that Ford Field is a terrible idea...so I support MLS' hesitancy. It would be a very stale soccer environment. If we get MLS we need a new privately funded small stadium. Doesn't even necessarily need to be downtown...

Here is a great location, right next to Gores new Pistons HQ, you only have to knock down 1 ugly building, it is centrally located just 2 miles from downtown, 2 blocks from Woodward, next to 2 freeways.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3633...thumbfov%3D100

**313WX** · August-20-19, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by hybridy

Detroit passed over again for Major League Soccer team

So that leaves only one opening for 2022. And there's a good chance Sacramento's getting that one.

As usual, Detroit is the last one onboard the train. By the time it gets a team, every other city will have moved on to the next big thing [[which appears to be Rugby).