City Club Apartments. Taking place of Stalter Hotel

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

you forget the scale of Washington boulevard. a boulevard that large needs a taller building to provide balance. put this on the fuller site it wouldn't look as out of place but it doesn't fit for the statler block.

Washington, DC is full of wide boulevards and short buildings. And by and large, I think DC looks beautiful.

[Lowell]

My hope has been that whatever is built would conform to the footprint of the block, the way the Statler did. One can't tell from the renderings above.

Interesting discovery... When I went to look at the block shape in Google maps, the map view still shows the Statler.

[313WX]

Washington, DC is full of wide boulevards and short buildings. And by and large, I think DC looks beautiful.

Detroit isn't Washington D.C. [[I don't want it to become like Washington D.C. either).

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Do we need to replace Himelhoch's and the Claridge House directly across the street on Washington Blvd since they are each only about seven stories? Washington Blvd. is not all "skyscrapers."

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Makes sense to no one at all other than the DDA. What's more is that the DDA has supposedly been working with Village Green on this for a while now, so it's even more odd that it'd still take that long to just get through red tape.

Rules and regulations slow everything down massively in our city. Small businesses, or potential small businesses, are often scared off not just by crime and taxes, but by the fact that they have to jump through so many hoops to get licenses to build their businesses. It's just easier to open in the suburbs. Making licensing, inspection, and permitting faster and easier would make a world of difference.

[Gistok]

Washington, DC is full of wide boulevards and short buildings. And by and large, I think DC looks beautiful.

Washington DC is like Paris... practically everything is 5-7 stories with no tall buildings. No other major American city is like them.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

While we can all have our opinions about the architectural merits of various designs, none of us here is forking over the money. If this is the plan that the developers think they can pull off, make money on, and bring residents downtown, then I LOVE the building. A friend of mine opened a business in New York [[a very busy bakery and catering service) about 8 years ago. When she was first starting off the number one phrase every friend, family member, and acquaintance said was, "You know what you should do..." Well, she did her own thing and made a go of it. No one needs everyone else's ideas about how to properly create their business.

[SpartanDawg]

ANOTHER new building that is set back from the street... [[sigh) Maybe if they would design some right that is actually urban for a change, I wouldn't be so angry about the height. This is the same scenario that happened with the new design for the Monroe Block.

no it's definitely not set back... i think from what you're seeing in the first rendering is the island in the middle of the north/southbound lanes of washington blvd. it's the median of the road, not open grass in front of the building... it definitely seems like they got the streetwall concept right with this one.

[mwilbert]

While we can all have our opinions about the architectural merits of various designs, none of us here is forking over the money. If this is the plan that the developers think they can pull off, make money on, and bring residents downtown, then I LOVE the building. A friend of mine opened a business in New York [[a very busy bakery and catering service) about 8 years ago. When she was first starting off the number one phrase every friend, family member, and acquaintance said was, "You know what you should do..." Well, she did her own thing and made a go of it. No one needs everyone else's ideas about how to properly create their business.

I don't think this is a proper comparison. Businesses come and go. Buildings stick around for a long time. Cities and citizens have to care about how they look, and appropriately should have more input into their design than into how someone wants to run their small business. On the other hand, I don't think the rendering looks too bad, although I think that site could handle a few more floors--the Statler was an ugly building [[in my opinion) but I think it was 15 stories.

[animatedmartian]

Rules and regulations slow everything down massively in our city. Small businesses, or potential small businesses, are often scared off not just by crime and taxes, but by the fact that they have to jump through so many hoops to get licenses to build their businesses. It's just easier to open in the suburbs. Making licensing, inspection, and permitting faster and easier would make a world of difference.

Plus it would be nice if there was more transparency. So much of Detroit's developments seem to be done in secret without much community input. Out in Royal Oak, citizens actually voice what type of development they want in the city and so that's the sort of development that gets built.

I was pretty happy to see the other day that the Tiger Stadium site is being divided up rather than giving the whole lot to one developer. It's a lot easier to manage smaller but effective projects than it is to build huge mega developments that the city is more seems accustomed to.

[Spartan]

Amen to that!! Looks like we have to settle for lowered expectations on this block. 6 floors... 1/3 of the height of the former Statler... the People Mover will probably cut right thru the middle of this.

And yeah... we don't want to have too much of that streetwall in downtown... [[rolling eyes emoticon).

So you like streetwall, but don't like this proposal? Do you really think they could've filled this entire lot with a 15-story building? If they did that, we probably wouldn't see another new construction for 20 years again.

[Gistok]

So you like streetwall, but don't like this proposal? Do you really think they could've filled this entire lot with a 15-story building? If they did that, we probably wouldn't see another new construction for 20 years again.

Actually I would have liked a few floors of parking above the entry floor... with the apartments starting at or above the People Mover route. That way the top of the apartment building won't struggle to look over the People Mover track. There are going to be quite a few poor sight line apartments in this complex...

[Spartan]

Actually I would have liked a few floors of parking above the entry floor... with the apartments starting at or above the People Mover route. That way the top of the apartment building won't struggle to look over the People Mover track. There are going to be quite a few poor sight line apartments in this complex...

Fair enough... I do wonder where they intend to put parking. I don't think the existing garages next door is large enough to house all these people.

[Hypestyles]

hmm.. why not 10-14 stories for the Statler project? Anyway, kudos..

[corktownyuppie]

Washington DC is like Paris... practically everything is 5-7 stories with no tall buildings. No other major American city is like them.

I've never been to DC but was recently in Paris, and I marveled at how beautiful the city was.

But in talking to my Parisian friend, we talked about the confluence of circumstances which resulted in Paris and concluded that even with billions of dollars, a city like it could never be created any time in the modern era:

[[1) Giant fire destroyed the city, so all the buildings that were built to replace the demolished structures were all built in the same era. Therefore, all the buildings match in style and design.

[[2) That era was at a time when labor was practically slave wages. The amount of money you'd need to build Cathedrale Notre Dame would be mind boggling. And you wouldn't have extra money lying around to add a multiple, unique gargoyles at the top just for show.

[[3) All of this took place at a time before cars had been invented and walking [[or perhaps horse/carriage) were the primary modes of transportation. Which means all the streets are narrow and very walkable. As another citation in the book of "unintended consequences", Government's fear of rebellion resulted in streets which would be very easy to barricade. Again...narrow.

So you have a very wealthy city at a time where labor is cheap designing the entire city in unison before cars were invented and dictators chose narrow streets to contain rebellion.

Detroit, on the other hand, is a bankrupt city where the cost of labor may very well be the highest in the country, where developers have to add in a premium cost for demolition and building rehabilitation in an environment where banks have all but cutoff lending in an era where cars are still the primary mode of transportation. Oh, bonus.,,The city was designed for 2,000,000 people and fewer than half of that reside here.

I don't have the answers to design. But here are my guiding principles:

[[1) Does it make the area more beautiful? Yes, that's subjective, but certainly most things look better than a vacant lot. Other than a strip mall or parking lot.

[[2) Does it make the area more walkable and vibrant? Yes. I agree with SpartanDawg; it appears that they got the streetwall right this time.

[[3) Will it attract higher income, tax paying, retail supporting tenants? Yes, yes, and yes.

It may not be perfect, but I'll take it.

p.s. If the development is successful, that just makes it that much more enticing for banks to support it and investors to start throwing their money around. The Book Tower would start to look more appealing every year.

[animatedmartian]

Fair enough... I do wonder where they intend to put parking. I don't think the existing garages next door is large enough to house all these people.

Underground.

[Gistok]

Corktownyuppie, actually it wasn't a fire that caused Paris's transformation... it was Baron Haussman, the Prefect [[pitbull) for Emperor Napoleon III who between the 1840s and 1860s destroyed 40% of medieval Paris in order to build the broad boulevards that make Paris so beautiful. All the poor people who used to live in all those squalid medieval tenements... they got transported to the suburbs of Paris... where they still are today... you have to have money in order to live in the city today.

[corktownyuppie]

Corktownyuppie, actually it wasn't a fire that caused Paris's transformation... it was Baron Haussman, the Prefect [[pitbull) for Emperor Napoleon III who between the 1840s and 1860s destroyed 40% of medieval Paris in order to build the broad boulevards that make Paris so beautiful. All the poor people who used to live in all those squalid medieval tenements... they got transported to the suburbs of Paris... where they still are today... you have to have money in order to live in the city today.

I defer to your understanding of history, as definitely more your forte than mine. If you could take the top 10% of Metro Detroit by income [[say, 40,000 people) and had them all live in what we call greater downtown, there's no question we could have a city that looks like Paris. But for better or for worse, that's definitely not going to happen.

It's a double edged sword, right? You can have a beautiful city that caters to the most wealthy. Or you can have a city that caters to the poor, but it's not going to look pretty. Or somewhere in between.

Btw...I saw preserved rooms from Napoleon III's apartment at the Louvre. Definitely must have had a height complex.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Plus it would be nice if there was more transparency. So much of Detroit's developments seem to be done in secret without much community input. Out in Royal Oak, citizens actually voice what type of development they want in the city and so that's the sort of development that gets built.

The public has 2 proper places in having a say about development: when creating zoning rules and regulations; and when government owned land is involved. I think it's silly when people have indignant criticisms about what other people are going to do with their own land with their own money. Note: I am not saying your are in that camp. And if I am not mistaken, this land has been city owned, so public input is legit.

[rjlj]

Agreed. Too many people living in fantasy land on this forum. It has been this way for years.

Why does everyone want something taller? There's too much empty space in Detroit to be building 15 story buildings everywhere, IMO

[rjlj]

Nothing will be built on the Lafayette site for at least another 50+ years. Akin to the Metropolitan site, if it is torn down, nothing will be built as well. All predictions are fantasy on lots that are not square. Hence the squarish renderings of the proposed buildings on the Statler and Monroe block site.

Actually, something like this would fit perfectly on the Lafayette Building site IMO [[the scale would be balanced there).

[Mackinaw]

It's fine. I'll take the infill and residents ASAP. There does NOT appear to be any setback along Washington Blvd. Bring it on.

[Gistok]

All predictions are fantasy on lots that are not square. Hence the squarish renderings of the proposed buildings on the Statler and Monroe block site.

I can absolutely agree that nothing will ever be built on the Metropolitan Bldg. site, should that be torn down. One reason would be that it's pinned in on 3 sides by other buildings.

As for odd shaped blocks. I'm curious to see what Dan Gilbert has in store for the National Theatre block, which is also an odd shaped block. Perhaps one should "never say never".

[DetroitPlanner]

What is that ugly thing facing the Park, a video board? I hope it don't flash ads every seven seconds cheesing off the folks across the way!

Regarding retail on first floor. What would you expect? Apartments? I don't necessarily think that putting even more empty retail space on the market is a good thing when there are better spaces downtown still vacant.

[Jason]

This has the character of a midtown or neighborhood sort of development, not of a downtown development. It also seems out of scale with GCP.

To me it's good that someone would put this somewhere, but I think there's plenty of land around for this to go, without handing them a favored site that could support something more appropriate in a few years.

Or maybe they're just favoring Washington Boulevard over GCP. imo this is a GCP site with frontage on Washington, not the other way around.