belle isle still free

[slick]

I was in Detroit so took a lap around Belle Isle. I was expecting a toll booth or something. Rode on as if it was still a Detroit park. Any plans for where the entrance booth may be. Pesonally I would have one installed by now!

[Detroitnerd]

I was in Detroit so took a lap around Belle Isle. I was expecting a toll booth or something. Rode on as if it was still a Detroit park. Any plans for where the entrance booth may be. Pesonally I would have one installed by now!

Well, that's funny. Here I was all worried about the entrance fee and they haven't built a toll house. OK. I take it back. This Belle Isle deal is sweet.

[Danny]

It's free to pedestrians and bike riding traffic. For car traffic you have to pay $11.00 a year fee if your wish! Detroit owns Belle Isle, The State of Michigan run its maintenance services. You will see beauty of the park come late spring. It will be like walking through the Garden of Eden and not a serpent in sight.

[Detroitnerd]

OK, right, but how do they check your tags? Where's the gate?

[Danny]

Don't need a toll booth. Your $11.00 a year car fee is to be paid from your state taxes, i.e. bank transfers or go to your local Secretary of State Office.

[DetroitPlanner]

They should be checking tags. I would assume that is most likely done if you stop somewhere at the time that the ranger is patrolling. They do not want to be pains about it at first. I can imagine that the booths will go up eventually if there is an issue but not before 2015. DNR wants to give a year for phase in. Don't be surprised if you do get a reminder though.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7...025---,00.html

Incidentally, the pass is a great value for anyone who travels around Michigan. It will get you into some of the best beaches in the State. In addition, there are savings to be had by having this passport. http://www.michigan.org/dnr-perks/

[EastsideAl]

From the Detroit Rec. Dept.'s Belle Isle website:

"One of the first changes Detroit residents and others will see is an $11 annual fee, which allows entry into all state parks. The fee will be gradually phased in during the first year of state management of Belle Isle.

Individuals who walk, bike or jog to the island will not have to pay the entry fee."

I guess they're still phasing in. I know there's been an open question as to whether or not it is practical to collect the fee directly [[like with some sort of toll gate), or if another system could be used that would allow for a freer flow of traffic.

[yupislyr]

Yeah, I haven't been there since the beginning of the transition but it sounds like it might be similar to other places I've been.

You can go on and off as you please rather than having to wait in a line, but if a cop or ranger comes by you had better have your proper tags or proof of purchase.

[Gannon]

It is not free, on some days it feels like a Police State. The troopers are well-schooled in hiding out-of-sight, then swooping down upon you and following you around the island...if they've nothing else to do. In roughly twenty laps, I've seen heavy surveillance five times, including one where the two trooper cars sat in the middle of the bridge...one blocking the second incoming lane while the other was in the 'center' lane at the foot of the bridge on the island.

The park rangers are a bit less interested in stirring up bullshit...I'm sure they are not as danger-seeking as the boys in blue...but they are VERY observant as well.

Not a one of 'em drive the speed limit, nor do ANY of the folks at the Coast Guard. Don't get me started on the yacht club members. But the troopers know that back stretch...The Strand...is too tempting for anyone when nobody else is there. That is one of their favorite speed traps, and I'm happy about it...as long as their ticketing is fair and balanced.

There is a temporary building just behind the flower-clock grassy-knoll, with a trailer electrical generator [[that I am simply AMAZED has not been stolen yet). I've not seen anyone in it since it was dropped off. I'm sure that will be the main office until an actual booth can be built.

They've said that nobody has to get the passes until their license plate expires this year. We've got the P on one car, but I'll buy a pass for the other ahead of time...


But yeah, Belle Isle isn't free. They've chosen the unenforced modern park hours over the traditional, historic all-hours access I've enjoyed all of my life [[excepting the Kwhyme years when he kept it to himself, after his wife swung through that Manoogian party). I enjoyed reading in a Robert Oakman biography that he and Mayor Pingree used to drink on the island until late into the evenings...that traditional access will never be the same under state rule. Belle Isle is irretrievably lost to those who don't end their day at ten o'clock...or start before 8.

<sigh>


Still trying to see the benefits to this whole deal...

[Dan Wesson]

The ranger got scared off.

[corktownyuppie]

Still trying to see the benefits to this whole deal...

Well the benefits aren't for you.

They're for the people who value refurbished buildings, renovated bathrooms, tree restoration, new lighting, plumbing repairs, and clearing of downed trees.

[EastsideAl]

I think if we are going to have a park entrance fee [[something I'm still opposed to, but that's water under the Belle Isle Bridge now, I guess) then it should be above board and transparent. The state should put entrance gates on the bridge and make it clear that this is no longer the free city park you've been paying for with your tax dollars all these decades. Then the public themselves can determine how the 'chips' [[such as the traffic) will fall. And we can all decide just how well this idea will work out.

Any other approach lends itself to charges of selective enforcement and will inevitably end up causing even more resentment. Particularly the "gotcha" approach they seem to be leaning towards now of using state cops and park rangers to enforce the fee on the island itself, which can definitely appear selective, and can seem like near random harassment and ticketing of often unsuspecting park goers.

[poobert]

I've got insider information and the guard shack is going in at the end of the summer. Good to go?

"he park rangers are a bit less interested in stirring up bullshit...I'm sure they are not as danger-seeking as the boys in blue...but they are VERY observant as well.

Not a one of 'em drive the speed limit, nor do ANY of the folks at the Coast Guard. Don't get me started on the yacht club members."

Well aren't you the merry little Marxist? Unless they have bumper stickers or you visibly watch them pull into either the station or the club, I'm not sure how you can certify that zero coasties or yacht clubbers drive the speed limit.

[Honky Tonk]

I think if we are going to have a park entrance fee [[something I'm still opposed to, but that's water under the Belle Isle Bridge now, I guess)

It's actually the MacArthur bridge. Carry on......

[313WX]

Well the benefits aren't for you.

Well geez...

Even if we all disagree on how to improve Belle Isle, that's an awfully cold remark to make.

[313WX]

It's actually the MacArthur bridge. Carry on......

Po-tay-to or Po-tah-to?

Which do you prefer?

[Honky Tonk]

Po-tay-to or Po-tah-to?

Which do you prefer?

"MacArthur"......

[313WX]

"MacArthur"......

Potato it is!!!

[gazhekwe]

The trouble with the license tag is that it only works for one car, so families with more than one car must always use the tagged one to go to the park. I tagged my little old car and no one ever wants to go to the park in it. Next year we'll tag the big 4 door.

[Gannon]

Well aren't you the merry little Marxist? Unless they have bumper stickers or you visibly watch them pull into either the station or the club, I'm not sure how you can certify that zero coasties or yacht clubbers drive the speed limit.

The Coast Guard gate is quite slow. I nearly always catch up with them before it opens.

With the yachters, their parking lot is quite visible when the sailboats are out of the water...it isn't too tough to see folks getting out of their cars. They ARE the worst, blasting through that street in the middle of the island...then past the deerpark.

It is a pet peeve of mine.


As for you, CorkedYuppie, kiss my derriere! Everything you mention could've been done by the city...there is no magic from the State, other than the political will. IF the city had posted a cop car with laser on the bridge, and another on the Strand...likely they could've paid for any and all improvements from the ticket revenue alone! Everyone speeds across the MacArthur Bridge.

geez, I hear that and I want to wonder why they left the cake out in the rain...

[corktownyuppie]

Well geez...

Even if we all disagree on how to improve Belle Isle, that's an awfully cold remark to make.

That's fair. My anger and frustration got the best of me, and I offer my apologies.

After thinking about it for sometime, the sentiment I'm trying to convey is thus: Any public policy change will inevitably have some people who are positively affected and others who are negatively affected. Or as Abe Lincoln put it, "...you cannot make all of the people happy all of the time."

In looking at the progress to date, there are some winners and losers -- so far.

Winners:

- The City of Detroit, which is saving money that was being used to operate the park which can now be re-focused elsewhere. We can disagree about whether or not it's enough money to justify the change, but that's for the end of this post. Right now, I'm just listing those who will benefit and those who will be hurt.

- Parkgoers [[contrast with residents) who are seeing millions of dollars pumped inot the park to better improve the experience for all who are there.

Losers:

- The City of Detroit civic leaders, who no longer have the prestige and political leverage [[whatever leverage was left) from operating the park.

- Early Risers and Night Owls, who are now having to put up with later openings and earlier closings.

- Drinkers who now will have to get advance permits before indulging in alcohol.

- 4:20 - Stepped up law enforcement likely means that unless you've got brownies, you'll see a sharp decrease in marijuana consumption.

- Ridin Dirty -- drivers with unregistered plates or outstanding warrants will encounter higher levels of enforcement than before.

- Driving Wallet Watchers [[and also, for now, the very very poor) who lament having to pay [[or being unable to pay) the $11 per year to gain access to the park. Yes, biking onto the park is free, as is walking. But bus access is left wanting.

- Subs on Wheels. Looking for a venue to turn up the bass? Belle Isle is no longer your home.

So we have some winners, and we have some losers. I think the losses suffered in the change are far outweighed by the gains we get in the process.

But that's just me, and I'm biased because my team comes out ahead in all this. I'm open to other thinking on it. Did I miss any losers or winners?

[SWMAP]

What is so funny about Gannon is that he has decamped Detroit for what Danny aptly calls "Snobbyville" but he continues to pose as an anti-capitalist. He should put his MONEY where his mouth is or stop with the class-baiting.

[dtowncitylover]

I remember going to Maybury State Park when I was younger many times and there never was a guard. We just went on by and never had any problems inside. But every time we went to Island Lake State Rec Area there was always a guard posted. So I guess the DNR just picks and chooses which parks would make the most money...? But I think Belle Isle would be a big money maker.

[Gannon]

Good collection...you're spot-on with most of it. I was unaware that there was ANY exception to the park rules against alcohol...although I guess the big events wouldn't exist without it. Still chewing on the supposed differences between 'park goers' and 'residents', though.

It's just that I see this island as a sacred place, a spot for meditation...contemplation...prayer. Heck, I'd love to see Native American ceremony held there. I am often on the lighthouse path in the morning, and I'll be training for another marathon soon. There used to be nothing quite like jogging into the dawn before sunrise along the Strand...usually there are five people on the island that early, and every one of us peacefully existing with nature's finest in the city.

And I'm NOT speaking any code.

There are tonnage of mixed messages coming from the authorities about how the park is going to be run...the mantra of those in the first weeks was "nothing is going to change, we're going to just observe this first year", which quickly devolved into the police state we're already seeing now.

I had a fantastic discussion with a young trooper with a canine partner one morning...probably the second or third day after the state took control...and was GREATLY encouraged to learn he requested the post, since he brings his family to the city and the island regularly and wanted to be part of the new assignment. Then I learned from a friend that at least one of the park rangers at the riverfront park also requested that duty, for much of the same reason.

Both took the trepidation down a notch or two, but then I've noticed in the weeks hence a few anomalies. I suspect some 'selective enforcement'...but not always with a heavy hand. Heck, one of my friends was doing his usual moon watching with a 40-ouncer...he's an old rocker with established habits...and the officer merely warned him. I was happy about that, but it will put a dent in our future business meetings on the island! We've been known to do our project planning there...it truly is a special and inspirational place.

I sure hope Duggan is forming a plan to get out of this lease before the state makes it too expensive...last time I heard his opinion, he was against it all, too. If he is the leader folks make him out to be, he would be able to do what it takes.

Cheers

[Gannon]

What is so funny about Gannon is that he has decamped Detroit for what Danny aptly calls "Snobbyville" but he continues to pose as an anti-capitalist. He should put his MONEY where his mouth is or stop with the class-baiting.

Class-baiting? Anti-capitalist?

More like anti-leadfoot protesting...although I'm all for a more responsible economic system evolving from the corporate-abused one we are suffering now...and why would I want a mouthful of cash?!