No water for you! Detroit plans mass water shutoffs

[Dan Wesson]

I see the DWSD is going to try some behavior modification.

There is nothing much more motivating than the porcelain throne filled to the brim.

Detroit plans mass water shutoffs over $260M in delinquent bills

Well I know what's going to sell like hotcakes now, Get 'em early....

Cashiers check, Cash or USPS money order

Click here to order a Curb Water Meter Key now!

[DetroitPlanner]

It is about dammed time. 80 percent of the back payers are corporations or greedy section 8 landlords.

[Scottathew]

You don't pay, you don't get water. Time for some folks to get their priorities in order.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

It is about dammed time. 80 percent of the back payers are corporations or greedy section 8 landlords.

Agreed entirely. I don't know the percentage of non-payers being businesses or residents, but I don't care. The water ain't free. If you have hardship paying, you [[onus on you taking action, not the city) should have to a) demonstrate it, b) perform community service to pay your bill, and c) have the amount of water you can use restricted until you are caught up on your bill.

[Wesley Mouch]

This is the kind of basic behavior I expect of a municipal agency. Good for them.

Simultaneously, I do hope they create a program like Edison's 'THAW' fund. There are some people who truly can't afford water. I'd be OK with a 100% tax credit like EIC to support water use with the cost spread evenly across the metro.

[Gannon]

It is about dammed time. 80 percent of the back payers are corporations or greedy section 8 landlords.

Then the corporate officers and landlords should have THEIR home water shut off, along with any vacation houses within the state.

No way innocent poor and employees should be punished for their bosses' idiocies. That is where the brunt of this will be felt, once again, by those at the shallow end of the economic pool.


And HOW THE HELL is it legal for Home Depot to sell those tools?! There is NO reason for civilians to own anything like this. Not one.

[Vic01]

This is the kind of basic behavior I expect of a municipal agency. Good for them.

Simultaneously, I do hope they create a program like Edison's 'THAW' fund. There are some people who truly can't afford water. I'd be OK with a 100% tax credit like EIC to support water use with the cost spread evenly across the metro.

Can't afford water?! As far as a "tax credit to support water use" goes... maybe, if we incorporate some of the ideas Mikey had in post #4

[Hermod]

Then the corporate officers and landlords should have THEIR home water shut off, along with any vacation houses within the state.

No way innocent poor and employees should be punished for their bosses' idiocies. That is where the brunt of this will be felt, once again, by those at the shallow end of the economic pool.


And HOW THE HELL is it legal for Home Depot to sell those tools?! There is NO reason for civilians to own anything like this. Not one.

1. Water is billed by the meter and not by the individual.

2. I think you will find that the majority of the overdue water bills are in fact fro the lower end of the economic pool [[and the gene pool) whether business or residential.

3. I can remember in the past having such a tool [[I think it was somewhere in the army) and it wasn't used in conjunction with water meters. We used it to turn something else so maybe it has more applications than just to turn on your water illegally.

[Gannon]

1. Water is billed by the meter and not by the individual.

2. I think you will find that the majority of the overdue water bills are in fact fro the lower end of the economic pool [[and the gene pool) whether business or residential.

3. I can remember in the past having such a tool [[I think it was somewhere in the army) and it wasn't used in conjunction with water meters. We used it to turn something else so maybe it has more applications than just to turn on your water illegally.

1. No kidding?! Gee...I thought everyone just donated what they could...wtf, of COURSE they bill by the meter, and the one responsible for that meter is responsible to pay the bill.

I'm saying when the one responsible doesn't pay, those IN THE DWELLING suffer...when it is a low-income renter situation, there should be some accommodations made. I don't know WHAT or HOW, but those who are innocently forced to suffer without a substance we ALL require for basic life existence need to be accommodated.


2. PLEASE tell me what you mean, EXACTLY, by introducing the FALSE equation that those on the lower portion of the economic scale are somehow unworthy genetically of existing. PLEASE.


3. You simply prove my point, there is NO reason for any civilian to have this tool. Army is not civilian, or have you forgotten?!

DTE would do well to buy Home Depot out, they've got the ability...and if the demand is as high for shut-offs as they say...they're going to need more of 'em anyways. They are legally restricted in VT and CA, according to that web page...oddly only in those two states.


Sincerely,
John

[Zacha341]

We pay our water bill at my residence, it's not easy, especially as the bills double up often from the city not sending them out in a timely manner. I wonder how many basements are full of water from these abandoned houses and slum lords who let water run freely for years. It's a wonder there's any water pressure in the D.

[Gannon]

We've got a NEW type of water pressure now.

[Zacha341]

You ain't lying G! What a mess! Just wait until the city taxes are connected to the state taxes. We'll then know all the millions owed to be collected. Good times!

[sumas]

I find my water bill puzzling. Identical bills for three months running, $93.18. Frankly, not possible. Last months payment was not credited. That was 93.08. This month is 67.08 which sounds more normal usage. Went in person downtown which has no reasonable parking. Nothing got resolved so just paid current bill. Sigh.

I agree with Gannon, do not equate low income with morons. Please to remember, there but for the Grace of God go I.

[sumas]

Last summer we had a leaking Water tank, a self flushing toilet and a leaky faucet. Needed to save our money for a plummer and new tank. Thought it kind of cute that we got a letter from the water board asking if our basement was flooded. Also thinking I've been paying for those anomalies for months.

[Lowell]

I don't know if it still exists, but I remember when I managed a couple of apartments long ago that water/sewage [let's not forget the latter is 3/4 of the bill] had to be included with the rent unlike other utilities.

So what happens in the situation where the owner doesn't pay the water bill? Is the water shut off and the tenants evicted?

Some landlords pick up deteriorated properties for very little, do nothing to them, ignore code violations, loot architectural and other elements of the property, then skip out when unpaid taxes and water bills come overdue. Mini-versions of Bain Capital and other 'turn-around' funds.

I think people here are asking what happens to these tenants? They paid their water bill via the rent.

...fro the lower end of the economic pool [[and the gene pool)

Really Hermod? I seem to recall someone else in another country and time making remarks like that.

[nativegirl]

I find my water bill puzzling. Identical bills for three months running, $93.18. Frankly, not possible. Last months payment was not credited. That was 93.08. This month is 67.08 which sounds more normal usage. Went in person downtown which has no reasonable parking. Nothing got resolved so just paid current bill. Sigh.

I agree with Gannon, do not equate low income with morons. Please to remember, there but for the Grace of God go I.

My father's bill was the same for five months straight....$58 and some change. I know that couldn't been possible especially when his pipe burst in January from the below zero temps Michigan was experiencing. I looked at the past usage that the provide on the bill and his summer usage was far less. Go figure.

[Honky Tonk]

I don't know if it still exists, but I remember when I managed a couple of apartments long ago that water/sewage [let's not forget the latter is 3/4 of the bill] had to be included with the rent unlike other utilities.

So what happens in the situation where the owner doesn't pay the water bill? Is the water shut off and the tenants evicted?

Some landlords pick up deteriorated properties for very little, do nothing to them, ignore code violations, loot architectural and other elements of the property, then skip out when unpaid taxes and water bills come overdue. Mini-versions of Bain Capital and other 'turn-around' funds.

I think people here are asking what happens to these tenants? They paid their water bill via the rent.

That is a good, sad, and unfortunate point. I personally think the COD has been more than generous with their collection agenda. The COD made their agreement with the landlord, and the tennants made their agreement with the landlord. The tenants need to take legal action with the landlord, since he was not living up to his end of their agreement, and pocketing the money.

[Hermod]

Some utilities including water utilities only read every other month but bill the intervening months at the rate of the preceding month.

If you cut off the water to a tenant occupied property [[where the water bill is included in the rent) the tenant should immediately contact the health Department and the Code Department and fines should be levied on the property owner.

Whenever I have rented a freestanding house or duplex with a separate meter, I have been responsible for establishing an account with the water department [[to include a deposit). When I rented an apartment or lived in a trailer park, the water was included in the rent. Man I just added it up, I have rented 18 different facilities in the course of my adult life.

As far as those tools are concerned, i have a buddy who is a yacht captain and he used a tool something like that to open and close something deep in the bilge. I have also seen quite a few tools that look like that but smaller [[like a foot long) to open and close remote valves where you can't get your hand in.

[Honky Tonk]

Last summer we had a leaking Water tank, a self flushing toilet and a leaky faucet. Needed to save our money for a plummer and new tank. Thought it kind of cute that we got a letter from the water board asking if our basement was flooded. Also thinking I've been paying for those anomalies for months.

And THAT seems to answer your first question about your bill being "not possible".

[Hermod]

I agree with Gannon, do not equate low income with morons. Please to remember, there but for the Grace of God go I.

Well, people who think Manual Labor is the president of Mexico.

[poobert]

Well, people who think Manual Labor is the president of Mexico.

If Fred Phelps died, who the hell are you, then?

[Scottathew]

Then the corporate officers and landlords should have THEIR home water shut off, along with any vacation houses within the state.

In many cases where a home is being rented it is the tenant that is responsible for paying for the water utility.

I've got a home I rent in Warren and my tenants are responsible for paying the water bill.

[Hermod]

If Fred Phelps died, who the hell are you, then?

Just someone who has spent a lot of time working with young people to try and convince them to live smarter and more responsibly and as Kipling said,

"And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought
Watch Sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought"

[gvidas]

I am extremely skeptical of this plan. It seems inevitable that there will be lots of human collateral, as described above. Also of note:

- DWSD bills are forever. They transfer with the property, even through foreclosure.

- DWSD bills are arbitrary. The major cost in residential contexts is "estimated sewer," based on your water usage. If you water your lawn/garden, wash your car, pressure-wash the house, or do anything else with water that does not go down the drain, you're still paying for that water's return trip.

The commercial equivalent is DWSD's estimation of storm runoff from large commercial properties: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...se-runoff-fees

I'm sure DWSD has a hard time collecting money. There isn't much money here to collect. But as a municipal entity, the wellbeing of citizens should at least register as a concern, if not be relatively high on the list of priorities. 260M in unpaid bills sure seems like a lot of money, but A) they're going to get it eventually, since the bills are forever and B) how much of that unpaid total is at buildings that no longer exist, where shutting the water off is a meaningless threat? How much would they save if 90% of the gushing water mains and burned/scrapped buildings stopped gushing?

DTE has an incentive to create programs like THAW, because they have little chance of recovering unpaid bills when people skip out on them [[even if it goes to collections, so little of that is actually paid back to DTE.) It is in their best interest to keep people around, paying as much as they are able to. DWSD has no such incentive.

[mwilbert]

Just someone who has spent a lot of time working with young people to try and convince them to live smarter and more responsibly and as Kipling said,

"And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought
Watch Sloth and heathen folly
Bring all your hope to nought"

It is hard to imagine how you think this is going to make you sound less Phelps-ish. Perhaps that is not your intent.