Michigan's same sex marriage ban declared unconstitutional

[bailey]

Don't mix up 'never in doubt' with 'legally unjustifiable.' I made the former but not the later.

I think that, in this case, that is a distinction without a difference. It was not in doubt, because it is so clearly unjusitfiable. This case didn't happen in a vacuum..both State and Federal courts [[and SCOTUS on most of this) have come to the same conclusion. Freidman specifically delayed the trial to allow [[correctly i think) SCOTUS to issue an opinion on Windsor. Regnerus, the state's key witness here and elsewhere has been debunked over and over again and so have all the other "reasons" behind excluding gays from marriage.

The "fix" was not in...as you seem to be claiming.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

In 2004 People of Michigan have decided that same sex marriage is illegal! Having that ruling overturned by the state supreme court means our vote will not count! That is not democracy!

I and all the churches, synagogues and mosques in State of Michigan will fight to prevent homosexual marriage from happening.

Actually, many [[and increasing numbers) of churches and synagogues will NOT join you. I'm sorry that you belong to a church of hate and fear.

Certainly the UU churches will not be joining you, since they are already marrying same-sex couples.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i...ml#incart_2box

After Prop 8 was overturned here in California, my UU congregation threw its doors open the following weekend for no-appointment needed weddings, with a bunch of volunteer ministers on hand.

[cjd]

The "fix" was not in...as you seem to be claiming.

Please show me once where I said the 'fix' was in. I have never said whether I am for it one way or the other, only that the outcome was evident from the beginning with Judge Freidman.

I think I could say the same thing if the case was heard individually by Scalia, Roberts, or Sotomayor. Would be two different outcomes with three different methods, but it would be quite predicable. That's my argument. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Danny]

IMHO...the general opposition to gay marriage is based in religion. The often quoted reason to oppose it is "the Bible says...". When the good old U. S. of A was founded, it was founded on religious freedom; the freedom to follow the religion of your choice, or to not follow a religion if you don't want to, or to interpret your religion in various ways as befits your way of living.

Therefore, any ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional because it limits the religious freedom of the members of our society who happen to be gay. Or...

As stated in the lawsuit, it is unconstitutional because it does not afford the same rights to gays that heterosexual people have.

I know that each of us has an opinion about people who are gay or lesbian. However, I look at it this way, if you believe in God, and God creates everything on earth, then God created each of us; gay, straight, lesbian, tall, short, black, white, brown, fat, skinny, blonde, dark-haired, whatever the combination.

If we could all just stop judging other people for not being what we think they should be and accept them for what they are..children of the earth, this would be a much better world to live in.

God didn't create Gays and Lesbians. It came from Old Meditteranean pagan culture. Homosexuality was practiced there a lot and quickly accepted most pagan nations. It also came from human nature in case of man/woman's partnership is not working. Everyone is not born Gay or Lesbian, its a choice.

Same Sex marriage don't procreate national generation of humankind. It's unethical and immoral. It's an abomination.

[Danny]

Actually, many [[and increasing numbers) of churches and synagogues will NOT join you. I'm sorry that you belong to a church of hate and fear.

Certainly the UU churches will not be joining you, since they are already marrying same-sex couples.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i...ml#incart_2box

After Prop 8 was overturned here in California, my UU congregation threw its doors open the following weekend for no-appointment needed weddings, with a bunch of volunteer ministers on hand.

I with the agreement with with all churches [[ not UU's for its not a church, its cult!), synagogues and mosques. They stand with the agreement of the God's Law! Homosexuality is an abomination! It's totally nasty! It's like picking up toxic substance with your bare hands.

[Ben]

So you, Danny, are the judge of what is a church and what isn't. You probably would think the Lutheran church I'm a member of that has same-sex couples [[and is going to marry them) isn't a real church. Maybe it's your church that isn't being truly Christian? I never heard Jesus say anything about gay and lesbian people in the Bible, but I did hear a lot about how people shouldn't hate others.

[jcole]

God didn't create Gays and Lesbians. It came from Old Meditteranean pagan culture. Homosexuality was practiced there a lot and quickly accepted most pagan nations. It also came from human nature in case of man/woman's partnership is not working. Everyone is not born Gay or Lesbian, its a choice.

Same Sex marriage don't procreate national generation of humankind. It's unethical and immoral. It's an abomination.

So God didn't create everything?

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Methinks Danny has some unresolved personal issues...

[SDCC]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/judge-issue...esday-march-26

[Vic01]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/judge-issue...esday-march-26

here's the story -

The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit has issued a temporary stay on the Michigan same-sex marriage ruling until Wednesday, March 26.According to the court document, to allow a more reasoned consideration of the motion to stay, it is ordered that the ruling is temporarily staying until Wednesday.
The attorney for April DeBoer and Jayne Rowse, has to file a response to the appeal and emergency stay, filed by Attorney General Bill Schuette Friday. The response must be filed in court by 12 p.m. on Tuesday, March 25.
Hundreds of same-sex couples lined up at different county courthouses in Oakland, Ingham, and Washtenaw counties to get their marriage licenses before the stay was issued.
In Oakland County, the clerk issued 142 marriage licenses, and in Ingham county, there were 57 licenses issued.
U.S. District Court Judge Bernard Friedman ruled Friday evening that Michigan's ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional, striking down the law embraced by voters in 2004.

[Pam]

Everyone is not born Gay or Lesbian, its a choice

Danny, enter the 21st century and go out and talk to some actual gay people. They will tell you it is definitely not a "choice."

Same Sex marriage don't procreate national generation of humankind. It's unethical and immoral.

A lot of straight married couples don't have kids. It's not the only reason for marriage.

[Pam]

IMHO...the general opposition to gay marriage is based in religion. The often quoted reason to oppose it is "the Bible says...". When the good old U. S. of A was founded, it was founded on religious freedom; the freedom to follow the religion of your choice, or to not follow a religion if you don't want to, or to interpret your religion in various ways as befits your way of living.

Therefore, any ban on gay marriage is unconstitutional because it limits the religious freedom of the members of our society who happen to be gay. Or...

As stated in the lawsuit, it is unconstitutional because it does not afford the same rights to gays that heterosexual people have.

I know that each of us has an opinion about people who are gay or lesbian. However, I look at it this way, if you believe in God, and God creates everything on earth, then God created each of us; gay, straight, lesbian, tall, short, black, white, brown, fat, skinny, blonde, dark-haired, whatever the combination.

If we could all just stop judging other people for not being what we think they should be and accept them for what they are..children of the earth, this would be a much better world to live in.

Good post. Jesus was not as judgemental as some of the people claiming to be his followers.

[noise]

I'm equally curious to know what your legal background is as well.

Why? I haven't asserted any rigid interpretations here.

But to answer your question, Harvard. I focus on IP.

[jackie5275]

Well, one thing is for sure about the decision if it's upheld is that it will bring more revenue into the clerks' offices around the state.

[jcole]

Well, one thing is for sure about the decision if it's upheld is that it will bring more revenue into the clerks' offices around the state.

Not to mention the florists, wedding venues, caterers, printers, DJs, formal wear vendors, etc.

[dtowncitylover]

I love the people who question what will happen to our society. Denmark was the first nation in the world to legally recognize same-sex partnerships. That was 1989. [[And also ranked the happiest nation on earth!) Nothing will happen! Nothing has happened in Denmark, or Canada, or South Africa, or Spain, or France, or Brazil, or Argentina, or any of the states here. Who I or you marry is none of your or mine concern as long as we are happy. Hey, even that stupid anecdotal story of the woman "marrying" her dog makes no difference in my life, except maybe a nice laugh.

The fight for heterosexual-only marriages is being fought because it is the last stand for the preservation of patriarchal domination. The "natural order" is that the straight man must have control. Giving marriage "power" to gay men and women weakens their control over marriage, instead of sharing the love and happiness that should be the reason for marriage.

And Danny, homosexual behavior is found throughout the animal kingdom. I didn't choose to be born this way. I wouldn't choose to go through the hells I've been through for figuring out who the heck I was and why I am the person I am.

I'm not surprised about the stay, and am very optimistic!

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

The stay was inevitable; it was just a question of when. I was hoping to make it through the weekend though.

I too am optimistic, dtowncitylover. To quote the famous Unitarian minister and abolistionist Theodore Parker [[whose words were paraphrased by MLK,)

“I do not pretend to understand the moral universe; the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways; I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight, I can divine it by conscience. And from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice.”

[Danny]

So God didn't create everything?

Yes it did. It didn't create homosexuality, it was man. When God made everything, it is for its image for it is good. Evil practices like homosexuality was in man for sin was in his nature. He accepted the fruit of knowledge of good and evil and thus came short to God's glory. Homosexuality is a choice. A choice to prove God is a liar, but It is not. Man created homosexuality for pleasure because of lack of feelings to a woman. And woman wanted to be homosexual because of lack of feeling toward man. Plain and simple. So Man to man and woman to woman relationship is a decision to reject God's plan for man to woman relationship for a structure nuclear family. A complete violation of nature and an abomination of family social structure.

[Danny]

Danny, enter the 21st century and go out and talk to some actual gay people. They will tell you it is definitely not a "choice."




A lot of straight married couples don't have kids. It's not the only reason for marriage.

Homosexuality is a choice just a like a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.


Straight marriages don't need to have kids. It's their choice. But their doing the social structure of marriage correctly.

[trotwood]

I love the people who question what will happen to our society. Denmark was the first nation in the world to legally recognize same-sex partnerships. That was 1989. [[And also ranked the happiest nation on earth!) Nothing will happen! Nothing has happened in Denmark, or Canada, or South Africa, or Spain, or France, or Brazil, or Argentina, or any of the states here. Who I or you marry is none of your or mine concern as long as we are happy. Hey, even that stupid anecdotal story of the woman "marrying" her dog makes no difference in my life, except maybe a nice laugh.

The fight for heterosexual-only marriages is being fought because it is the last stand for the preservation of patriarchal domination. The "natural order" is that the straight man must have control. Giving marriage "power" to gay men and women weakens their control over marriage, instead of sharing the love and happiness that should be the reason for marriage.

And Danny, homosexual behavior is found throughout the animal kingdom. I didn't choose to be born this way. I wouldn't choose to go through the hells I've been through for figuring out who the heck I was and why I am the person I am.

I'm not surprised about the stay, and am very optimistic!

Well hot D#MN[[pardon the expression)!!!
This is it!! I don't think I've ever read anything on this forum that I love as much as I do this post!!
Dtowncitylover you're awesome!!! WOW!!!
Thank you.

[Meddle]

Religious zealots revert to 'The Word' when they don't have any other argument or explanation. It IS because 'The Word' says it is.

[Danny]

And Danny, homosexual behavior is found throughout the animal kingdom. I didn't choose to be born this way. I wouldn't choose to go through the hells I've been through for figuring out who the heck I was and why I am the person I am.

I'm not surprised about the stay, and am very optimistic!

Yes, but we humans are unique under God's image. When God made a declaration that Homosexuality is an abomination, don't do it. If you decided to do it. You're rejecting its rule and disagreeing of its commandments. You can believe in God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit. But when the Holy Trinity see you doing nasty things. They not be involve with your sins, but they will take your sins away. Instead of you denounce your iniquities.

If you are homosexual that was your decision. You made a decision to stay out of the church and calling God a liar! [[ If you still attending church). Some folks who confess their homosexuality from national and social media to any religious institutions will risk their lives. If you're homosexual keep it a secret! If you decided to release your homosexuality in public, get ready to lose anyone you love, get ready to lose your job and get ready to lost place in any religious institution. [[ At least you can join a cult like the UU Church, which its not a church!)

[Zacha341]

I'm really not sure that ALL gays will tell the same story of how they came to their sexuality or their expression therein. Are you suggesting that gays are monolithic in thought? Who would assume such accuracy or uniformity?

I have gay family members and friends, so this is not an unfamiliar subject and I know variance certainly exists. Talk to someone who works with teens and they will share even more variables as to who and how some young determine their sexuality.

I do not think everyone shares the same experience. That would be incredible and I know it is not true.

Danny, enter the 21st century and go out and talk to some actual gay people. They will tell you it is definitely not a "choice."

[gnome]

The central function of state-sanctioned marriage is not to promote sexual activity, if it was people with certain handicaps would be prohibited from marriage. Really old folks would be denied the right to marry if procreation was the reason for state-sponsored marriage.

the reason for marriage is social cohesion. To that end, any adult should be able to marry another adult.

However, this stand does brush against the idea of plural marriage.

[Zacha341]

LOL! Made even worse and laughable to the scorners when no particular scripture is quoted, but then in most cases I saw why 'go there' in a secular environment. It often just leads off to another ugly situation and debate.

Religious zealots revert to 'The Word' when they don't have any other argument or explanation. It IS because 'The Word' says it is.