James Scott Mansion

**dmike76** · March-13-14, 09:41 AM

Holy crap this is a beautiful building. I'm skeptical, mainly because the developer says it's 99% likely and not a 100% likely, he's owned it for 15 years and done nothing, AND there are no work crews on it now. But man, what an incredible addition this would be to the residential choices in the area.

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi..._river_default

**Wesley Mouch** · March-13-14, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by dmike76

Holy crap this is a beautiful building. I'm skeptical, mainly because the developer says it's 99% likely and not a 100% likely, he's owned it for 15 years and done nothing, AND there are no work crews on it now. But man, what an incredible addition this would be to the residential choices in the area.

http://www.mlive.com/business/detroi..._river_default

I think a statement like that is refreshing and suggests some honesty on Mr. Landy's part.

**DetroitPlanner** · March-13-14, 10:12 AM

My parents want a condo. Will it have an elevator or is it too early to ask?

**renf** · March-13-14, 10:52 AM

http://detroit1701.org/JamesScottMansion.html
Here is a link to a site with more information about the once glorious James
Scott Mansion. I never thought that I would see the restoration of this home.

**downtownguy** · March-13-14, 11:12 AM

The developer, Joel Landy, has done several projects around the area. I give him credit for purchasing the building and keeping it away from the Adamo Cartel. His statement is just taking into account the reality of doing a project like this.

**SaintMe** · March-13-14, 11:17 AM

Any pictures of this place of when it was still a functional building?

**rb336** · March-13-14, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by SaintMe

Any pictures of this place of when it was still a functional building?

There's a drawing here

http://1889victorianrestoration.blog...buildings.html

**bailey** · March-13-14, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

There's a drawing here

http://1889victorianrestoration.blog...buildings.html

That is some really interesting backstory on that place I had not read before. Thanks.

**Hamtragedy** · March-13-14, 11:48 AM

It had a pretty nasty fire in it shortly after Landy bought it, which only added to the costs before the market crash. Like DTGuyd said, he's done alot to keep that section of town from indiscriminate demolition. Whether or not you're a fan of his buying up buildings in the neighborhood and "getting to them when the financing becomes available," projects like the Kales or the Addison should have been starting points for other small investors to do likewise, had there been any of those types of people here. But there weren't, except for the slumlords and speculators who didn't do anything for decades except let the area decay, or the gazillionaires, who did the same thing.

**DetroitPlanner** · March-13-14, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by renf

http://detroit1701.org/JamesScottMansion.html
Here is a link to a site with more information about the once glorious James
Scott Mansion. I never thought that I would see the restoration of this home.

One this bad will never be truly restored. It can be rehabbed and converted into condos though if you have enough dough. A restoration would put it back to what it once was and economically people don't live in houses of this size anymore.

My dad used to tell me that the reason why he built it to be so large was to screw the neighbor out of sunlight. Has anyone else ever heard this story? It would not surprise me as he was known as a major jerk.

Edit.. Opened the link renf posted, it explains the story. Seems pretty close.

**bailey** · March-13-14, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

One this bad will never be truly restored. It can be rehabbed and converted into condos though if you have enough dough. A restoration would put it back to what it once was and economically people don't live in houses of this size anymore.

My dad used to tell me that the reason why he built it to be so large was to screw the neighbor out of sunlight. Has anyone else ever heard this story? It would not surprise me as he was known as a major jerk.

read the bolded part of RBs linked article. its a funny story.

**Gistok** · March-13-14, 01:54 PM

Based on RBs link... the Scott Mansion was never actually lived in by Scott for the 20 years he owned it. It was just a sham... a building built to spite his neighbor in the back. So this structure was likely never actually finished in anything that one would expect from such a grand facade... so what went up in smoke was likely nothing that one would call priceless.

So when people drive by today, they don't realize that it was not an actually lived in baronial mansion.

The only thing I'm a little puzzled about is this... it says that the original mansion had a long blank flat wall in back. So I take it that this means that these four shallow 3 story wings in back came later, when the building was transformed into residences?
http://treasuresofdetroit.files.word...img_5388-2.jpg

**southofbloor** · March-13-14, 03:28 PM

In 1983 before the gable started to collapse:

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**DetroitPlanner** · March-13-14, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The only thing I'm a little puzzled about is this... it says that the original mansion had a long blank flat wall in back. So I take it that this means that these four shallow 3 story wings in back came later, when the building was transformed into residences?
http://treasuresofdetroit.files.word...img_5388-2.jpg

What you are seeing are the air shafts. Those were used prior to air conditioning. The tenement apartments of that time period did not have those air shafts and most of the apartments had no access to air, light, and even used a shared bath. The lack of these shafts were instrumental in establishing modern building and zoning codes. I am sure they are there because Scott could afford them.

**Gistok** · March-13-14, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

What you are seeing are the air shafts. Those were used prior to air conditioning. The tenement apartments of that time period did not have those air shafts and most of the apartments had no access to air, light, and even used a shared bath. The lack of these shafts were instrumental in establishing modern building and zoning codes. I am sure they are there because Scott could afford them.

Yes... but my question was this... are those 3 story apartment block additions part of the original construction? Or did they come later? The floors don't match up on all levels with the main building...

**DetroitPlanner** · March-13-14, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Yes... but my question was this... are those 3 story apartment block additions part of the original construction? Or did they come later? The floors don't match up on all levels with the main building...

I don't see that, it looks to me as if all the floors line up. The windows in the air shafts are of a different size, but they were also assumed to eventually not have a view.

**Gistok** · March-13-14, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I don't see that, it looks to me as if all the floors line up. The windows in the air shafts are of a different size, but they were also assumed to eventually not have a view.

Do you see it now?? See where the front block attaches to the back square wing... the 2nd and 3rd floor windows do not align to the front portion of the building.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/63615.html

**DetroitPlanner** · March-14-14, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Do you see it now?? See where the front block attaches to the back square wing... the 2nd and 3rd floor windows do not align to the front portion of the building.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/63615.html

You mean the Eastern turret addition? how you need to step down to get into it from the 2nd and 3rd floors? Does not seem like a big deal to me. I was looking for something a lot more drastic.

**Gistok** · March-14-14, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

You mean the Eastern turret addition? how you need to step down to get into it from the 2nd and 3rd floors? Does not seem like a big deal to me. I was looking for something a lot more drastic.

I really don't care about that... my original question that no one has answered so far is this... was the "4 apartment wings" back side of the building a later addition?

**mikeg19** · March-14-14, 10:27 AM

$7M to renovate that place? Does that seem right to you guys? The building is phenomenal, so I hope it happens, but for that price? Maybe I'm just so used to seeing everything costing $20 or $30 million dollars. IDK.

**DetroitPlanner** · March-14-14, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by mikeg19

$7M to renovate that place? Does that seem right to you guys? The building is phenomenal, so I hope it happens, but for that price? Maybe I'm just so used to seeing everything costing $20 or $30 million dollars. IDK.

Seven Million / 25 units = $280k per unit construction cost. Add 25 percent for profit and overhead you are talking a sales price of about $350k per unit. Each unit will probably be less than 1,000 sq ft [[unless this place is over 25,000 sq ft). I'd guess sales price would be close to $400 a square foot. Check this out next to comparables and you will see that this is not a cheap figure.

**mwilbert** · March-14-14, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Seven Million / 25 units = $280k per unit construction cost. Add 25 percent for profit and overhead you are talking a sales price of about $350k per unit. Each unit will probably be less than 1,000 sq ft [[unless this place is over 25,000 sq ft). I'd guess sales price would be close to $400 a square foot. Check this out next to comparables and you will see that this is not a cheap figure.

I will be interested to see the plans if they ever exist, but it does seem like it would be a stretch to carve $7MM worth of condos out of that place. The location is potentially excellent, but it isn't exactly excellent right now.

**southofbloor** · March-17-14, 08:00 PM

Gistok - the east bay is not original [[it isn't in the earliest photo) and my suspicion is that the third floor of the wall extending south from the north west tower isn't either. I think all of the built form with regularized window openings including everything you see on the south side and the three storey part with bay windows on the west side is an addition built after 1910 when the NYT article was printed.

**southofbloor** · March-17-14, 08:05 PM

Will pull out 1897 Baist's at work tomorrow to check the footprint.

**Gistok** · March-17-14, 09:34 PM

Thanks southofbloor!! So the original mansion was never lived in, and basically had a flat back windowless wall... which was later added to with those wings.

What a pity that the original mansion was just a "spite building".... as mentioned in rb336's link... which has a very interesting history about spite houses all across America... something that zoning regulations today would forbid....
http://1889victorianrestoration.blog...buildings.html