DTE SMART Meters. Watch OUT!

**sumas** · March-01-14, 04:07 AM

My husband hates it when I share personal info. Que Serra.

Our budget plan is 367 a month. We keep shutting stuff down but my bill does not go down. Apparently Feb is reconciliation month. They wanted 760 dollars to resolve but if we wanted, our bill could be 372. I am no math major but 5 dollars would not reduce 760. We paid the balance and asked to be removed from the budget plan. They serious suck big eggs.

Forgot, I'll wear that tin foil hat. Tin foil is awesome

**Dan Wesson** · March-01-14, 07:37 AM

What does it matter when you keep cutting down on KWH's used and then you watch the Fee's and rates charged go up.

Use less and end up paying more.

All the excess capacity at the source due to manufacturing disappearing has to be paid for and aging distribution grids add up to mo' money, mo' money.

**townonenorth** · March-01-14, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by sumas

My husband hates it when I share personal info. Que Serra.

Our budget plan is 367 a month. We keep shutting stuff down but my bill does not go down. Apparently Feb is reconciliation month. They wanted 760 dollars to resolve but if we wanted, our bill could be 372. I am no math major but 5 dollars would not reduce 760. We paid the balance and asked to be removed from the budget plan. They serious suck big eggs.

Forgot, I'll wear that tin foil hat. Tin foil is awesome

Was that 367 a gas and electric bill combined?

**sumas** · March-01-14, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by townonenorth

Was that 367 a gas and electric bill combined?

yes, combined. The gas portion seems fair, the electric portion is nuts. Keep shutting stuff down with zippo savings.We do have exterior lights that we keep on. Figure I should get a tax credit since the streets lights do not work.

**townonenorth** · March-01-14, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by sumas

yes, combined. The gas portion seems fair, the electric portion is nuts. Keep shutting stuff down with zippo savings.We do have exterior lights that we keep on. Figure I should get a tax credit since the streets lights do not work.

Well you won't have savings with a budget plan immediately, anyway. That's the problem with those, they don't adjust if you take steps for energy efficiency.

How much of that is electric versus gas, and do you have a forced air furnace or air conditioning? That all may have a bearing on your electric bill...

**RO_Resident** · March-01-14, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by townonenorth

Well you won't have savings with a budget plan immediately, anyway. That's the problem with those, they don't adjust if you take steps for energy efficiency.

How much of that is electric versus gas, and do you have a forced air furnace or air conditioning? That all may have a bearing on your electric bill...

The budget plan is based on a moving average--DTE takes into account the prior 12 months' worth of usage.

Will my monthly budget amount change, why?
Your budget amount is based on your energy use, so it will change as your use changes. The most common reason for budget fluctuations is weather. When weather is hotter or colder than the previous year it will cause your budget to change. Other things that could cause your budget to change include: adding or removing appliances, adding or removing a hot tub or swimming pool or a change to the number of people living in your household.
Your budget won't change immediately after taking steps to conserve energy. Your budget is based on the last 12 months of history, so it will take several months to see the impact to your budget. Also keep in mind that hotter or colder weather can increase your energy use and may offset the budget decrease you were expecting to see.

**SWMAP** · March-01-14, 08:31 PM

My combined DTE bill 01-23-14 thru 02-26-04 is $280 for the period. I used 223 CCF of gas- up 14% from last year [[a very warm winter). I used 441 KWH - up more than 25% from last year.
I was careless several times, leaving the iron on for days in the basement. My furnace ran a lot more than I would normally have it because senior dog needed more heat this year. But overall, not as bad as I had predicted.
My house is cold-55 degrees at night and never, never above 63 during the day. My motives are moral and financial.
I insulate a space every year lately. I button up my windows with strippable caulking. I lay nice felt draft dodgers across every window rail and I cover the big windows with insulated curtains on the coldest days and nights.
I have a 92% efficient furnace. Last, I operate from the principal that I will "heat the room, not the house, and then, more finely, the person [[me) not the room. So I keep the heat down; I read with a little electric fireplace near me; I use a low-voltage electric blanket [[a superior, new generation of electric blankets), I wear wool base layer shirts from a ski shop all the time.
It's sort of a competition for me - I like it when DTE tells me that I use less energy than my neighbors. When DTE says that I am using an "average" amount, I look for reasons and cut back more for awhile.
I can tolerate cold very well, but I admit that I do use air conditioning in summer. I find humid heat so stressful.
What does everyone else do - besides unplug energy drains?

**Dumpling** · March-02-14, 01:23 AM

I have a Kill-A-Watt meter. Other than having to check the instructions
sheet every time it is a very nice device to have. It persuaded me to shut off my second refrigerator unless it is really needed. It has persuaded me that my main refrigerator can be replaced at my earliest convenience. I can safely say that it paid for itself right there. I borrowed my parents'
garage last fall and used the Kill-A-Watt to reimburse them correctly for the space heater electric cost. NICE!
I know a lot of devices around the house are little electricity vampires
though I haven't checked them with the Kill-A-Watt. My cell phone charger
and similar devices draw electric as long as they are plugged in even if the
cell phone [[or whatever) is not being charged or used.
Taking the OP's concern seriously, I will check for a breaker to flip off for the
central air. Just in case.

I appreciate the OP's post - not sure about how correct it is, but I will
check to see if I can shut off a breaker for central air only.

**SWMAP** · March-02-14, 07:02 AM

In Ontario, electricity is very expensive and it will never be cheaper because "clean power" more expensive to supply.
They have demand pricing and essentially power supplied from 6:00 am to 10 pm is premium priced.
Thenlittle flyers say to run washers after 10 pm etc- and that charging a phone takes as much power as running a refrigerator. At full charge it continues to drain power -not as much though- until charger is unplugged. Recommmendrd to charge electronics at night only for better pricing.
EVERYTHING on power strips for easy shutdown.

**sumas** · March-02-14, 08:49 AM

Thanks all, I have learned a lot. My gas bill is about 35% of my total bill. Given my homes age and size I find it reasonable. The electric is way out of wack.

One thing I did learn years ago that My Mr Coffee machine drew more power than my electric stove. I make coffee and put it in a thermos ever since.

**Dan Wesson** · March-02-14, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by Dumpling

I have a Kill-A-Watt meter. Other than having to check the instructions
sheet every time it is a very nice device to have. It persuaded me to shut off my second refrigerator unless it is really needed. It has persuaded me that my main refrigerator can be replaced at my earliest convenience. I can safely say that it paid for itself right there. I borrowed my parents'
garage last fall and used the Kill-A-Watt to reimburse them correctly for the space heater electric cost. NICE!
I know a lot of devices around the house are little electricity vampires
though I haven't checked them with the Kill-A-Watt. My cell phone charger
and similar devices draw electric as long as they are plugged in even if the
cell phone [[or whatever) is not being charged or used.
Taking the OP's concern seriously, I will check for a breaker to flip off for the
central air. Just in case.

I appreciate the OP's post - not sure about how correct it is, but I will
check to see if I can shut off a breaker for central air only.

Kill-A-Watt are cool. If you add up all the different rates on the fees and surcharges on the backside of your bill then input as the cost, you will get the actual cost of usage.

I wish they made a simple version for whole house mode using 240 v.

**Bigb23** · March-02-14, 02:00 PM

I bought an Infrared thermometer from Radio Shack. Point and shoot with a laser, and it givesyou [[android again), a range from from -31 to 752 degrees. Only $39 with a Pistol grip.
Check your windows, oven, and freezer. What fun!
I use mine for tap water.

Seriously, you want to know your HOT kitchen stuff,
While you use them. [[Android crap sentinsing again)
Use and enjoy!

**Dumpling** · March-03-14, 05:46 AM

From www.eia.gov FAQ's:

Michigan in 2012: 4,250,620 customers had an average monthly
electric consumption of 676 kWh with price 14.13 cents per kWh for
a monthly bill of $95.50.

U.S. in 2012: 126,832,343 customers had an average monthly
electric consumption of 903 kWh with price 11.88 cents per kWh for
a monthly bill of $107.28.

The southern states tend to use more, probably for air conditioning.

I checked and found my central air does not have its own breaker.
There is only a furnace breaker for all heating and cooling functions.

**courtney** · March-03-14, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Your home size, age, and layout has nothing to do with it, sumas.

Home size and age has a lot to do with heating and cooling based energy use.

I'm not sure if the DTE site has changed, but years ago for the "comparable usage" thing, the website had a spot to enter in the house square footage and age to help make more valid comparisons. Whenever we get one of those, it notes those values I put in and compares our usage with those that are similar.

Originally Posted by Dumpling

The southern states tend to use more, probably for air conditioning.

Most people around here [[where we live in the winter, with family in Anderson County, South Carolina) have heat pumps. While a gas furnace wouldn't even be an option here [[no gas lines), even several friends and families who live in neighborhoods with gas lines have heat pumps. They are great for overall energy usage, however, when the area has an extra cold snap, the "emergency heat" strips suck down a lot of power. Not enough, my brother calculated, however, to make it cost effective to install a back-up gas furnace for the coldest days in the winter.

**sumas** · March-04-14, 03:47 AM

I kind of like the water co. A few month back, we had a water heater that was leaking, a tap that was dripping and a toilet that was self flushing. Knew we had those problems and did get a plumber in. The water co. sent us a letter asking us to check for flooding in our basement. The bill was triple that month. Not their fault. Fixed it and our bills are normal again. I thought it seemed nice that they noted excess consumption.

**sumas** · March-04-14, 04:02 AM

I've started turning off power strips, so am curious if power usage will decrease. The kitchen has a toaster oven, toaster and coffee maker. A separate strip for the microwave. The living area has an old tv, a charger for my fake smoke [[trying to quit), a hair trimmer [[don't ask) and our cell phone charger. Will report back to see if we realized savings.

**Honky Tonk** · March-04-14, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by courtney

Home size and age has a lot to do with heating and cooling based energy use.

Correct Courtney. But the thread was about a jump in electrical usage, not about heating costs, and that was what I was refering to. You could have a studio apartment, with every electronic gadget imaginable, and a McMansion with nothing but books and a wood burning stove, and electrical usage cost for the studio apartment will be higher. However you do bring up a good point, regarding the OP. If the heating system is forced air, because of the harsh Winter we've had, and the furnace is cranked up higher, and running longer, that would explain the rising increases in the electrical bill.

**SWMAP** · March-04-14, 08:17 AM

The Water Department knew you had a leak somewhere because you have a smart meter that reports your water consumption hour by hour.
If your house is consuming a certain amount of water, hour by hour, all night and, at base, every hour of the day with normal usage on top of that, the computer can graph that something is wrong.
Happened to me 3 years ago that a toilet in the basement used a few times by a house painter ran for several months. I had no idea, got a bill for several hundred dollars, insisted that I am careful, etc. DWSD showed me the usage graph all day and all night for months. Clear as a bell.
Smart meters save money in the end.

**Muskie52** · August-06-16, 04:48 PM

You cannot be serious are you? This a dumb grid they are putting in. It will save no energy at all. When Time of Use billing hits us all we will be paying 3 to 4 times the normal rate. Initially it will be voluntary, then quicky be mandatory. The first step is to get that Smart Meter on your house. Then you cannot escape it and your bill will double. When will people realize that Utilities do not give a rip about consumers. The Smart Grid is the biggest scam in America. Show me one home where their electric bill went down with a Smart Meter, unless the home was unoccupied for an extended period. Every person I know that has a Smart Meter now has higher bills.

**Honky Tonk** · August-06-16, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Muskie52

You cannot be serious are you? This a dumb grid they are putting in. It will save no energy at all. When Time of Use billing hits us all we will be paying 3 to 4 times the normal rate. Initially it will be voluntary, then quicky be mandatory. The first step is to get that Smart Meter on your house. Then you cannot escape it and your bill will double. When will people realize that Utilities do not give a rip about consumers. The Smart Grid is the biggest scam in America. Show me one home where their electric bill went down with a Smart Meter, unless the home was unoccupied for an extended period. Every person I know that has a Smart Meter now has higher bills.

Speaking of not being serious.....

**Wesley Mouch** · August-07-16, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Muskie52

You cannot be serious are you? This a dumb grid they are putting in. It will save no energy at all. When Time of Use billing hits us all we will be paying 3 to 4 times the normal rate. Initially it will be voluntary, then quicky be mandatory. The first step is to get that Smart Meter on your house. Then you cannot escape it and your bill will double. When will people realize that Utilities do not give a rip about consumers. The Smart Grid is the biggest scam in America. Show me one home where their electric bill went down with a Smart Meter, unless the home was unoccupied for an extended period. Every person I know that has a Smart Meter now has higher bills.

If bills are doubling, then DTE's electrical revenue would be doubling. This should be easily checked, since DTE's a public company.

**ferndalien** · August-08-16, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Muskie52

You cannot be serious are you? This a dumb grid they are putting in. It will save no energy at all. When Time of Use billing hits us all we will be paying 3 to 4 times the normal rate. Initially it will be voluntary, then quicky be mandatory. The first step is to get that Smart Meter on your house. Then you cannot escape it and your bill will double. When will people realize that Utilities do not give a rip about consumers. The Smart Grid is the biggest scam in America. Show me one home where their electric bill went down with a Smart Meter, unless the home was unoccupied for an extended period. Every person I know that has a Smart Meter now has higher bills.

Here's one. Bills are 10-15% less with time of use billing. DTE's been running an "experimental" dynamic pricing program for a few years, and our energy costs are lower after switching to it. I work from home, so our home is more occupied than most.

But don't let that keep you from conspiracy theories.

**jerrytimes** · August-09-16, 09:40 PM

It's not a crazy story to me, if the circuit is live, even if the fan isn't spinning power can still be drawn from it.

**Jerry Van** · August-16-16, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by CrashDummy

If the motor is turning, it will draw current. The energy usage is real, not phantom.

They told her the wind was blowing the air conditioner fan blade causing the motor to turn. That's total bullshit. It will NOT draw current under those conditions.

Most likely, they have something on the interruptible circuit that they're unaware of. They should shut off the breakers and see what surprisingly also shuts off that they never realized was on that circuit.

**CrashDummy** · August-18-16, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Van

They told her the wind was blowing the air conditioner fan blade causing the motor to turn. That's total bullshit. It will NOT draw current under those conditions.

You're right that it will not draw current. Those were my stupid words. I should have said that it will induce a current. Whether or not the smart meter can detect that and charge them some small amount for having an active circuit, I don't know. But it's quite possible.