The push for tougher scrap metal laws in Michigan

**Zacha341** · February-17-14, 08:29 AM

See video...

From article:

The Detroit Crime Commission is leading the push for tougher scrap metal laws in Michigan.

Executive Director Andrew Arena Spoke with FOX 2's Robin Murdoch Friday and said he plans to travel to Lansing next week to present his research to lawmakers, hoping to persuade them to stiffen the laws.

"It's kind of the circle of death. It's violent; it's blight; it's scrapping; it's illegal dumping; and it's destroying the city of Detroit," says Arena.

Arena says he sent a letter to every Michigan lawmaker pleading the case.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24...#ixzz2taNLnbgX

**southofbloor** · February-17-14, 09:45 AM

Great - good for him. The illegal scrapping industry has made it very difficult for Detroit to get back on its feet again. I don't understand why scrappers and more importantly scrap dealers have been given a pass for so long. Its particularly bad with copper metal flashings - you strip metal off the roof of a building and in a very short time its wrecked from water damage - for a few hundred dollars worth of material the opportunity embodied in a building that might have a million dollar replacement value is gone and not repairable, meaning people can't be employed there and the neighbourhood becomes more dangerous because of blight. It seems to me that its one of the most serious threats to Detroit's ability to become a place with jobs again. [[Oh that and random violent crime…) This is a good step - hope it goes somewhere.

**professorscott** · February-17-14, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

The Detroit Crime Commission is leading the push for tougher scrap metal laws in Michigan.

I mean, okay, pass a law, but I don't expect much from a law if the intent is for it to be applied in Detroit. Cocaine is already illegal; burglary is already illegal. These laws don't seem to create much of an impediment. Oddly enough, criminals do not feel compelled to obey laws.

**Hypestyles** · February-17-14, 11:22 AM

I wonder what exactly is being proposed? Longer jail sentences for convicted scrappers/thieves? Criminal penalties for business owners who accept stolen scrap? Heavy fines for both? What jurisdiction[[s) are empowered to do most of the enforcement of this?
Unfortunately, my guess is that plenty of public officials—of whatever party—aren’t going to feel compelled to jump on this if it isn’t directly happening in their neighborhood, or if their district isn’t known as a “blight zone”.

**astongraham** · February-18-14, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

I mean, okay, pass a law, but I don't expect much from a law if the intent is for it to be applied in Detroit. Cocaine is already illegal; burglary is already illegal. These laws don't seem to create much of an impediment. Oddly enough, criminals do not feel compelled to obey laws.

All that you said is true, but people aren't going to regulates businesses to purchase cocaine, nor are they using businesses to commit other crimes that u mentioned. All the new regulations would do is create a log of who is turning in these scrap metals, create a wait time of 24 hours to collect their monies, and make these businesses accountable for paying someone for turning in a manhole cover and expecting to get that cash immediately.
No one is trying to force drug dealers to create logs of who they are selling to, or make a 1 day wait period for drug users to get their smack. This industry is already regulated, therefore they can be shuttered for breaking the law. Anyone that is legitimately scrapping can wait 24 hours to get their pay. If a legitimate business owner wants to scrap excess material from a job site, he or she wait 24hours to get paid, unless that business owner has a crack problem and really needs that money then and there. People that use scrapping as a way of survival is gonna have to suck it up and deal with it, people are inconvenienced all the time, why are they any different?
This is about regulated licensed businesses, not regulating cocaine dealers
I will also say that these laws work in every other community outside Michigan that they have been implemented.

**aj3647** · February-18-14, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

I mean, okay, pass a law, but I don't expect much from a law if the intent is for it to be applied in Detroit. Cocaine is already illegal; burglary is already illegal. These laws don't seem to create much of an impediment. Oddly enough, criminals do not feel compelled to obey laws.

Criminals don't obey laws, therefore we shouldn't have laws. That's some sound logic you got there, fella.

Laws provide a means of PUNISHING those who break them. That's the whole point. Burglars will continue to burgle despite the fact that there's a law against it, but having a law in the first place at least provides us with a means of PUNISHING them when caught. You get that, right? You understand the basic fundamental purpose of laws? Because your post seems to indicate otherwise.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-18-14, 05:22 PM

If it can't be regulated, TAX IT for Gods sake, 15% on all sales, put it in parks, public transport, something that benefit's the community's that are scraped into ruin.

**getmoore** · March-19-14, 06:31 AM

Progress?
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detr...scrapping-bill

**Vic01** · March-19-14, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by getmoore

Progress!
http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/detr...scrapping-bill

It's not "progress" yet... still has to pass the house, and senate. It'll likely get watered down to almost useless by then...

**masterblaster** · March-19-14, 08:12 AM

I hope this bill also covers cast iron steam radiators and bathtubs. These are being stripped from houses at an alarming rate.

**getmoore** · March-19-14, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by Vic01

It's not "progress" yet... still has to pass the house, and senate. It'll likely get watered down to almost useless by then...

Hmm. I guess I'd better change my exclamation point to a question mark then.

**mkhopper** · March-19-14, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Criminals don't obey laws, therefore we shouldn't have laws. That's some sound logic you got there, fella.

Laws provide a means of PUNISHING those who break them. That's the whole point. Burglars will continue to burgle despite the fact that there's a law against it, but having a law in the first place at least provides us with a means of PUNISHING them when caught. You get that, right? You understand the basic fundamental purpose of laws? Because your post seems to indicate otherwise.

I don't think the post read as no knowledge of how laws are supposed to work, but instead just making a point that yea, having a law is nice and all, but it's not really going to stop anything. If the scrappers find that they can't sell here, they'll start humping the stuff down to Ohio or some of our less gifted students might even try Windsor.

Putting a 24 hour wait on cash returned for selling to a scrap dealer is a good idea. It's just another instance where those of us who abide by the laws are inconvenienced, but it's a possible deterrent.
Another deterrent, yet avoiding the 24 hour wait, would be to obtain permits to scrap. If you're a legitimate contractor and have items to recycle, just as you need a permit to build, then you should also have a permit to scrap.

However.... Any of that won't stop the problem. Illegal scrappers will always find a way to get their ill received cash while the city crumbles around our feet.

**Vic01** · March-19-14, 06:37 PM

partial progress...

"A proposal to stop illegal scrapping now moves forward with approval from the state house. Its been a challenge given all the special interests says rep. Rashida Tlaib of Detroit".

"A vote will likely be made tomorrow in the senate. If approved, the governor could sign a new law Friday".

http://www.wxyz.com/news/scrapping-b...ing-in-lansing

**getmoore** · March-20-14, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Vic01

partial progress...

"A proposal to stop illegal scrapping now moves forward with approval from the state house. Its been a challenge given all the special interests says rep. Rashida Tlaib of Detroit".

"A vote will likely be made tomorrow in the senate. If approved, the governor could sign a new law Friday".

http://www.wxyz.com/news/scrapping-b...ing-in-lansing

OK It's almost a done deal!!!
http://www.freep.com/article/2014032...medium=twitter

**Vic01** · March-21-14, 10:46 AM

A bill toughening up laws against such illegal metal theft is on its way to Gov. Rick Snyder after the Senate voted 31-6 Thursday in a compromise bill hammered out with the House of Representatives.

http://www.freep.com/article/2014032...converter-bill

**Hypestyles** · March-21-14, 10:49 AM

If Snyder signs it, can the law be improved upon in the future?

**brizee** · March-21-14, 11:14 AM

Criminals can still bring in copper, car parts and HVAC coils as long as it's in under 25 bucks.

They sold us out while squawking about how much they're helping us.

That's the Michissippi I've come to expect.

**Kevgoblue** · March-21-14, 11:44 AM

Do we need new laws? If there really is a desire to stem this problem, why not just enforce the existing ones? Isn't it illegal to buy stolen goods? Send in stings, where people are scrapping manhole covers, railroad ties, etc. Send in a dirty grungy looking guy with a shopping cart full of copper pipes.
Then bust the scrapyard.

The crackhead needs his fix. He's going to do what he can to get it. But after a couple of the scrapyard owners go to jail I have to believe the others businesses will miraculously quit accepting a lot of the obviously stolen/scrapped material.

It would be easy to pop some guys stealing scrap metal. And most likely make for a nice news story. But in a city with unemployment levels like we have there's plenty more people who will do the exact same thing. I would believe we would get much better results in solving this problem if law enforcement targeted those with the most to lose.