Attention Mike Illitch and family

**Detroitdave** · February-17-14, 02:50 AM

We are thankful for what you've done with the Fox , copa , and we know you are about to get a shining new area with TONS of parking , but could you PLEASE show some love to Detroit's UA
THIS is what our sister UA in LA looks like ,and what ours could and should look it ? :-[[
Thanks for your attention .

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...ts_theatre.php

**Wesley Mouch** · February-17-14, 03:21 AM

Here's the link cleaned-up

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...ts_theatre.php

I am so ever thrilled to see this restoration. We're reaching a point where most 20's movie palaces are either saved, or they have been destroyed. What a joy.

**Detroitdave** · February-17-14, 03:29 AM

Thank you Wesley :-)

**Hamtragedy** · February-17-14, 10:52 AM

My sentiments, exactly.

**bailey** · February-17-14, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

We are thankful for what you've done with the Fox , copa , and we know you are about to get a shining new area with TONS of parking , but could you PLEASE show some love to Detroit's UA
THIS is what our sister UA in LA looks like ,and what ours could and should look it ? :-[[
Thanks for your attention .

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...ts_theatre.php

Dr. Scott and his church acted as admirable stewards of the 87-year-old structure, to the point where Los Angeles Historic Theatre Foundation head Hillsman Wright described it as being in "perhaps the most turn-key shape" out of all of Broadway's dozen historic theaters when it went up for sale in 2009.

Unfortunately, Detroit's UA has had the Illitchs as its stewards.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-17-14, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Unfortunately, Detroit's UA has had the Illitchs as its stewards.

But the Fox also had Ilitch's as its steward. I''ve never understood how both can be true. Anyone have a theory.

I've always thought more positively than negatively about Mike and his family. I certainly disagree with them about a lot of their approach to historic preservation, but on the other hand they did invest in Detroit when very few others did.

For those that don't remember, Downtown Detroit in the 1980s was not hip. Moving a corporate headquarters into a historic building -- even with tax breaks -- was a historic event. It was the watershed moment for the re-gentrification of downtown.

I do hope that the restoration of the UA-LA sets an example of what might be. [[And let's not forget that much of the UA's demolition by neglect occurred before they arrived.)

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 11:48 AM

Actually much much more demolition by neglect happened under their stewardship than before. When they took over, yes the roof was already leaking, and there was already plasterwork damage... but it was while the building was in their care that the serious damage took place.

The roof wasn't open to sunlight when they took over... that happened later. The sidewalls were still intact... now huge sections of it are nothing but brickwork with the plaster walls long gone. They left the building unsealed, and scrappers came in and ripped out all but one or two of the wonderful carved Indian Maiden plaster busts that were the glory of the plasterwork...

Unfortunately... the price of a restoration of the Detroit UA is likely to be double what it would have been had the Ilitch's put a new roof on it when they first bought it.

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 12:01 PM

The 3 United Artists Theatres [[LA, Chicago, razed, and Detroit) were C. Howard Crane's first forray into the exotic movie palaces. Prior to these 3 UA commissions Crane had built theatres in the palace style that mimic'ed European palaces and opera houses. So when Crane got the UA commissions in 1926, he followed the trend towards more exotic theatres. These theatres were each different, but had a similar Spanish Gothic style with a hint of Art Deco.

Crane must have visited some of John Eberson's Mediterranean style atmospheric theatres, since Crane's UA theatres share a similar design of style plus the colorful lighting.

Here was the smaller of the 3, the Chicago UA before it was wantonly demolished in 1990 for what became an empty block for nearly 2 decades...

**ghettopalmetto** · February-17-14, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

But the Fox also had Ilitch's as its steward. I''ve never understood how both can be true. Anyone have a theory.

I've always thought more positively than negatively about Mike and his family. I certainly disagree with them about a lot of their approach to historic preservation, but on the other hand they did invest in Detroit when very few others did.

For those that don't remember, Downtown Detroit in the 1980s was not hip. Moving a corporate headquarters into a historic building -- even with tax breaks -- was a historic event. It was the watershed moment for the re-gentrification of downtown.

I do hope that the restoration of the UA-LA sets an example of what might be. [[And let's not forget that much of the UA's demolition by neglect occurred before they arrived.)

The cynical side of me thinks that 1) Ilitch only restored the Fox because it would expand his entertainment empire and 2) Ilitch will never restore [[or sell) the UA because it would compete with the Fox.

**jt1** · February-17-14, 02:17 PM

In Ilitch's defense, the restored theater doesn't compare to a 'landscaped, parking lot.

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The cynical side of me thinks that 1) Ilitch only restored the Fox because it would expand his entertainment empire and 2) Ilitch will never restore [[or sell) the UA because it would compete with the Fox.

I would tend to disagree with that... only because his Fox has 5,174 seats, and a restored UA would have 1,500 seats... so there's little competition there with the huge size difference.

If anything the 4,400 seat Masonic was his major competition... and for a while he handled bookings there... but then gave that up.

The Masonic and 2,800 seat Detroit Opera House are his major competition... also both have larger [[deeper) stages than the Fox... which means they can handle more elaborate shows.

**56packman** · February-17-14, 02:45 PM

What's he supposed to do with it when he's finished restoring it?

If you have a hot show biz-ness idea and think it would be the perfect venue, call him up, make an offer. He's a businessman, I'm sure he'll listen.

**ABetterDetroit** · February-17-14, 03:09 PM

Boy if I could bend his ear I would ask him if he could find a residential lease partner who has the capital/credit to build now on any of his vacant land in the downtown area.

It appears that downtown apartments are drying up and nothing makes a entertainment district grow faster and be successful than more people living close by using what they say they are trying to create. In other cities I have traveled to new construction always looks like it spreads once it starts. Lets get more than one thing going up at a time Mr. Illitch !!!

**DetroitPlanner** · February-17-14, 03:12 PM

Beautiful and inspirational find DDave. I am reminded of a hotel I stayed at in Chicago several years back which was very similar. The Hotel Allegro shares a building with one of the old theatres though they do not share lobby space. http://www.allegrochicago.com/design...background.pdf

It was one of the most fru-fru places I ever stayed in. My room reminded me of a cross between a Bugs Bunny cartoon and a Alice in Wonderland inspired Tom Petty video. I got a good rate, but not good enough of a rate to go be subjected to such torture.

**Gistok** · February-17-14, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Beautiful and inspirational find DDave. I am reminded of a hotel I stayed at in Chicago several years back which was very similar. The Hotel Allegro shares a building with one of the old theatres though they do not share lobby space. http://www.allegrochicago.com/design...background.pdf

It was one of the most fru-fru places I ever stayed in. My room reminded me of a cross between a Bugs Bunny cartoon and a Alice in Wonderland inspired Tom Petty video. I got a good rate, but not good enough of a rate to go be subjected to such torture.

Thanks for the anecdote DetroitPlanner... I knew that you were talking about the Chicago's Palace Theatre... another Rapp & Rapp design... by the architects that designed the former Michigan Theatre. Unfortunately I didn't realize that today it is the CADILLAC Palace Theatre... sponsored by the auto division. So Chicago has the FORD CENTER [[Oriental Theatre)... and the Cadillac Palace Theatre.... nice that our automakers are sponsoring Chicago theatres...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cadi...w=1024&bih=679

**Detroitdave** · February-17-14, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by 56packman

What's he supposed to do with it when he's finished restoring it?

If you have a hot show biz-ness idea and think it would be the perfect venue, call him up, make an offer. He's a businessman, I'm sure he'll listen.

How much would you bet if uncle Dan got it it would be up and running in a year ?

It's been more than proven that Downtown is dire need of apartments and Hotel space .

Also with his tax break and his "entertainment" venue he's planning , I'm sure he could fit this in , also this is the same guy throwing several MILLIONS of dollars at his players i.e remember prince fielder ????, how'd that work out ?

He should be a better civil partner and take a page out of Dan page book .
He's had more than enough time to do something with it .

**bailey** · February-17-14, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Thanks for the anecdote DetroitPlanner... I knew that you were talking about the Chicago's Palace Theatre... another Rapp & Rapp design... by the architects that designed the former Michigan Theatre. Unfortunately I didn't realize that today it is the CADILLAC Palace Theatre... sponsored by the auto division. So Chicago has the FORD CENTER [[Oriental Theatre)... and the Cadillac Palace Theatre.... nice that our automakers are sponsoring Chicago theatres...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cadi...w=1024&bih=679

while I get the point you're making...on the flip side of that coin, maybe Cadillac and Ford should have focused on cars instead of naming rights for theaters in the 90s?

**poobert** · February-17-14, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitdave

How much would you bet if uncle Dan got it it would be up and running in a year ?

I thought about that factor, too.

The Illitches represent a model of urban developer that thankfully is going the way of the Buffalo. They're old. They're uncreative. They're slow as fuck.

Foxtown is pretty weak in terms of an "entertainment district." 25 years later and his fiefdom is a theatre, a couple crappy restaurants, and a stadium with a huge parking setback.

I guess downtown Detroit needed saving in the 1980s, but frankly, it doesn't now. Those were dark days for America's urban cities, and Detroit took longer than most, but fortunately there is a renewed interest in living, working, and playing in the center city.

Downtown's recent success appears to have very little to do with Illitch's developments. Downtown was still in the doldrums for years after he re-opened the Fox, and his sea of parking in front of Comerica shows what kind of development he's really interested in. It's really just his own little corporate office park in the middle of downtown.

**rjlj** · February-17-14, 04:05 PM

BINGO! Also, exactly why the JLA will be razed as part of the new hockey arena deal.

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The cynical side of me thinks that 1) Ilitch only restored the Fox because it would expand his entertainment empire and 2) Ilitch will never restore [[or sell) the UA because it would compete with the Fox.

**downtownguy** · February-18-14, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The cynical side of me thinks that 1) Ilitch only restored the Fox because it would expand his entertainment empire...

This is, in fact, true. At that time, he had his sweetheart lease deal on Joe Louis Arena, and it also included Cobo Arena. They needed a "feeder" venue [[Fox=5,000 seats) to complement their 10,000 and 20,000 seat arenas.

**DetroitPlanner** · February-18-14, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Thanks for the anecdote DetroitPlanner... I knew that you were talking about the Chicago's Palace Theatre... another Rapp & Rapp design... by the architects that designed the former Michigan Theatre. Unfortunately I didn't realize that today it is the CADILLAC Palace Theatre... sponsored by the auto division. So Chicago has the FORD CENTER [[Oriental Theatre)... and the Cadillac Palace Theatre.... nice that our automakers are sponsoring Chicago theatres...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cadi...w=1024&bih=679

Reading the wiki on this theatre it looks like the Nederlanders are involved with the Cadillac. It gets even more complicated! For those that may not know the Nederlanders are arch enemies to the Ilitches when it comes to theater management. Nederlanders have controlled the Fisher forever and have an on again off again romance with the Masonic.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-18-14, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Thanks for the anecdote DetroitPlanner... I knew that you were talking about the Chicago's Palace Theatre... another Rapp & Rapp design... by the architects that designed the former Michigan Theatre. Unfortunately I didn't realize that today it is the CADILLAC Palace Theatre... sponsored by the auto division. So Chicago has the FORD CENTER [[Oriental Theatre)... and the Cadillac Palace Theatre.... nice that our automakers are sponsoring Chicago theatres...

https://www.google.com/search?q=Cadi...w=1024&bih=679

The Ford [[Oriental) and Cadillac [[Palace) theatres are in a different league than Detroit. Pre-broadway runs now often play Chicago. Their market is larger, and they market to other major cities, Detroit included. They are more like NYC than Detroit.

**Gistok** · February-18-14, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

The Ford [[Oriental) and Cadillac [[Palace) theatres are in a different league than Detroit. Pre-broadway runs now often play Chicago. Their market is larger, and they market to other major cities, Detroit included. They are more like NYC than Detroit.

Yes, Chicago is a larger theatre market than Detroit... however, the Detroit Based Nederlander organization has theatres all around the USA... Chicago and Detroit included. Pre Broadway shows go to where ever the Nederlander's want them to... historically that has been to Detroit... but other cities, including Chicago, also get these productions. But there is nothing in the Chicago market that somehow makes them special in getting pre or post Broadway shows...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederla...ther_US_venues

**ABetterDetroit** · February-18-14, 05:13 PM

Can anyone say out of all the property Illitch's family owns in the downtown area is anything currently under development other than the new public supported Hockey arena? Serious question, not trying to poke at him. I know he is kicking in on the M1 rail.

**Wesley Mouch** · February-18-14, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Yes, Chicago is a larger theatre market than Detroit... however, the Detroit Based Nederlander organization has theatres all around the USA... Chicago and Detroit included. Pre Broadway shows go to where ever the Nederlander's want them to... historically that has been to Detroit... but other cities, including Chicago, also get these productions. But there is nothing in the Chicago market that somehow makes them special in getting pre or post Broadway shows...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederla...ther_US_venues

Gistok, Pre-Broadway certainly can come to Detroit. But it hasn't come for years. What was the last big broadway to mount in Detroit? 'Big', the 1996 [[18 years ago) flop based on Tom Hanks 80s movie?

From Nederlander's BroadwayInChicago website; Chicago is best known for attracting pre-Broadway productions, highlights of those include THE PRODUCERS, SPAMALOT, MOVIN’ OUT, THE ADDAMS FAMILY, KINKY BOOTS and BIG FISH, as well as long-run engagements including WICKED, Disney’s THE LION KING, and BILLY ELLIOT THE MUSICAL to name a few.

Big difference. We're not in that league. When was Detroit's last multi-month sit-down?