grand circus park in its prime

[SpartanDawg]

Walking through a wayne building today and saw this picture as a screen saver on one of the computers... GCP was an absolute gem back in the day and we can only hope it gets to its prime again. Does anyone have any similar pictures/ better quality of this??

[downtownguy]

I don't think it looks so bad today. Here's a shot I took off of Google Earth. The sad thing is how much parking is devoted to or owned by Ilitch north of the park.



Someone, I think Gistok, has posted photos of old postcards from back when the Statler and Tuller were still standing. If you search the forum, you might find them.

[Khorasaurus]

I think GCP still looks good today, but it could obviously be better.

When was that shot from? There's a parking lot fronting the section between Adams and Madison. Clearly that's been around for a long time.

[Gistok]

East Grand Circus Park is for the most part unchanged. The YMCA was replaced by Comerica Park on the NE corner, and the Detrot Opera House stage house replaces the 2 businesses that were on the corner in front of the old Capitol Theatre, but the rest of the block remains unchanged [[and the block north of Madison Ave. is still just parking.

But West Grand Circus Park, which has always been the crown jewel of the park has lost 3 buildings.... the Statler and Tuller Hotels, and the small [[brown) Hurley Hospital Building between the Kales and Fine Arts Building [[which at the moment is just a facade).

The "Park2" image was from around 1920, before the Broderick Tower and Michigan Mutual [[former Stroh HQ) were built....

[animatedmartian]

Walking through a wayne building today and saw this picture as a screen saver on one of the computers... GCP was an absolute gem back in the day and we can only hope it gets to its prime again. Does anyone have any similar pictures/ better quality of this??

Interesting to note the Skillman Branch Library under construction in the top center. That roughly puts this image somewhere in the late 1920s.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I like GCP now, but I think currently serves more as a park to look at as you pass by than a park to recreate in. As the surrounding blocks continue to fill in, I think that will change.

[KJ5]

I hope they have another Shakespeare play there this year. It was cool seeing Othello there last year.

[downtownguy]

Gistok, I knew you would come through with those post cards. They really are beautiful. I don't think I've seen the one from the Park Avenue perspective before. Hope we get back to that density again one day.

Do you know what the history is on the parking lot at Adams and Witherell? When is the last time something existed on that site other than a parking lot?

[Gistok]

Downtownguy... if you mean the parking lot between the Kales and the Fine Arts "facade"... that would be where the 7 story Hurley Hospital used to be. I don't know when exactly it was torn down, but it was some time between 1950 and 1970.

Then there's the empty lot just west of the [[now closed Park Apartments) the 2nd building west of Park Ave. on the north side of Adams. That used to be where the auditorium of the Downtown RKO Theatre [[originally the 2,950 seat Oriental Theatre, built in 1927) was, before it was torn down in 1953, leaving the remains of the lobby inside the now closed 17 story Park Apartments Building.

As for those who say that Grand Circus Park looks fine... I have to respectfully disagree... you need to have seen it in its' prime... it currently doesn't have anything resembling an "enclosed" urban feel to it... and has some gaping holes to fill in to get back its' intimate high density look...

[Gistok]

Interesting to note the Skillman Branch Library under construction in the top center. That roughly puts this image somewhere in the late 1920s.

Thanks for posting that image animatemartian. Sometimes photos like these give us not only a glimpse of a particular time and place, but also give us a depressing sense of what has been decimated downtown.

If you look at the pie shaped 3 blocks between GCP and Harmonie Park, it's depressing to see that the only survivors there are the Detroit Opera House [[when this image was taken circa 1929, it was the Paramount Theatre) and the former wedge shaped Milner Hotel. The entire block that is today the Opera House Parking Garage was decimated by the ugly previous parking structure, and also the few buildings on the Opera House block far end were torn down.

If you compare the attached circa 1932 map of the area, you can see how the Depression had an impact on the density of downtown... for the worst. Several of the buildings in the aerial view have already been leveled for parking lots.

Also now missing is the Madison-Lennox Hotel next to the Milner.

[downtownguy]

Downtownguy... if you mean the parking lot between the Kales and the Fine Arts "facade"... that would be where the 7 story Hurley Hospital used to be. I don't know when exactly it was torn down, but it was some time between 1950 and 1970.

Then there's the empty lot just west of the [[now closed Park Apartments) the 2nd building west of Park Ave. on the north side of Adams. That used to be where the auditorium of the Downtown RKO Theatre [[originally the 2,950 seat Oriental Theatre, built in 1927) was, before it was torn down in 1953, leaving the remains of the lobby inside the now closed 17 story Park Apartments Building.

As for those who say that Grand Circus Park looks fine... I have to respectfully disagree... you need to have seen it in its' prime... it currently doesn't have anything resembling an "enclosed" urban feel to it... and has some gaping holes to fill in to get back its' intimate high density look...

Thanks for that nugget about the lobby of the Oriental Theatre. I had never heard that before and I have never been inside the Park Avenue Apts. Was the old lobby in view when the apartments were occupied?

But I was asking about the east side of the park, on Witherell. The empty lot between Madison and Adams has been vacant as long as my memory goes, and you noted it was vacant in the old photo SpartanDawg posted. So, two questions really. Had something occupied that side between today and when that photo was taken? If not, how far back until something existed on that lot. To think it was vacant during the heyday of Grand Circus Park is perplexing.

I agree that Grand Circus Park was quite the place back in the day, what with the hotels, theaters, and so many active office buildings. Your post cards show just how impressive it was. But my comment was made more in the spirit of how it looks today without comparing it to what it had been. I was active with the business association there in the 80s and 90s, and GCP has always held a special place in my heart. It is still a beautiful park to walk through or sit in. MikeyinBrooklyn says it is only nice to look at as you drive by. I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.

[hortonz]

In his 1993 book "The Geography of Nowhere" James Howard Kunstler made the point that urban planning in North America became highly sophisticated and achieved a high level of artistry from the end of the Civil War to the onset of the Great Depression. Think of the City Beautiful movement of the early 20th century and you'll see what he meant. But after 1929 the government turned to the highway builders to jump start the economy and by 1945 urban planning went from a profession dominated by planners whose primary function was to create walkable communities to highway engineers whose sole purpose was to accommodate the automobile.

[CrashDummy]

It is still a beautiful park to walk through or sit in. MikeyinBrooklyn says it is only nice to look at as you drive by. I wholeheartedly disagree with that statement.

Here is what Mikey said: "I like GCP now, but I think currently serves more as a park to look at as you pass by than a park to recreate in."
I do not think you disagree as much as you think. I agree with you both.

[Ray1936]

View of GCP, c. 1920, via Shorpy via Detroit Publishing Co.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I hope they have another Shakespeare play there this year. It was cool seeing Othello there last year.

How the hell did I miss that? When did they do it? I walk by nearly every day and I swear I didn't know.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Here is what Mikey said: "I like GCP now, but I think currently serves more as a park to look at as you pass by than a park to recreate in."
I do not think you disagree as much as you think. I agree with you both.

Yeah, CrashDummy, I wasn't knocking the park. I was mostly trying to say that as the neighborhood finishes filling in, it will be a place for a lot of people to congregate, which I don't think it is right now. I think it's nice; I especially love the flowers in the spring & summer, and the statues [[including of the best-ever mayor, with the coolest name, too, Hazen Pingree).

[ddaydetroit]

The biggest thing I notice in the pictures from the past and today in the park is the lack of people using it as a park.
I have been fortunate enough to have traveled to many countries and the one thing that amazes me in big cities in other countries is the amount of people you see on a daily bases actually taking advantage of the parks. People reading the newspaper, parents with kids, someone on a blanket enjoying the weather, in some cities even at night then I get back to Detroit and the parks are pretty much empty [[excluding belle isle) or a place for the homeless

[Gistok]

Downtownguy... that block between Madison Ave. and E. Adams has been empty [[on the GCP side) since time immemorial. It has always been a parking lot since at least the 1920s.

Now as for the site of the Oriental Theatre [[renamed Downtown RKO in 1930). Here are some images I just found on Flickr. Most of the photographs were taken on previous Preservation Detroit Historic Downtown Theatre Tours. Next to the building lobby was the former auditorium lobby also located within the building tower. It was used since the 1953 demolition of the auditorium as storage space, and closed off to the public, except for annual theatre tours in the last 5 years. The images shows the surviving plasterwork walls and ceilings... much of it in very vivid exotic colors!

Since there are no known photographs of the auditorium of the Oriental, a pair of sketches of it are also seen in this Flickr search, as well as some sketches of the auditorium building next to the former apartment tower...

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Orie...atre%20detroit

[Gistok]

One last thing... it is sad that downtown Detroit's only Atmospheric type movie palace, the 2,950 seat Oriental/Downtown RKO disappeared almost without a trace, almost to be forgotten back in 1953. Supposedly the reason was [[and I find this hard to believe with how beautiful it was)... it was too far away from the district, albeit it was just the 2nd business west of GCP. They tried everything to get patrons to come to the theatre, including wrestling matches, but to no avail... it was quietly closed in 1951, and the auditorium was pounded to rubble in 1953... a hauntingly beautiful theatre gone almost without a trace...

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Ddaydetroit, you are very correct about park usage in other places. In New York, people just hang around in parks in a way we don't here [[well, not in the same numbers). People here view parks, I think, as a place for activity [[play ball, walk the dog, have kids play in the playground, etc). In New York, people did those things, but they also use the neighborhood park as an outdoor living room. I've always chalked that up to having small apartments and lots of roommates. But people here don't decide "hey, let's go drink our coffees on a bench in the park." But hopefully that will change a little bit.

[animatedmartian]

Found some other postcards and photos of GCP and various hotels adjacent to it.




detroit postcards by southofbloor, on Flickr


grand circus detroit by southofbloor, on Flickr


detroit postcards by southofbloor, on Flickr


Detroit Hotel Postcard by southofbloor, on Flickr




Detroit Hotel Postcard by southofbloor, on Flickr​


grand circus detroit by southofbloor, on Flickr


grand circus detroit by southofbloor, on Flickr

I really don't like the modernized GCP. Especially the entrances and exits to the underground park just seems to cut off the park from the surrounding streets.

[Gistok]

Ddaydetroit, you are very correct about park usage in other places. In New York, people just hang around in parks in a way we don't here [[well, not in the same numbers). People here view parks, I think, as a place for activity [[play ball, walk the dog, have kids play in the playground, etc). In New York, people did those things, but they also use the neighborhood park as an outdoor living room. I've always chalked that up to having small apartments and lots of roommates. But people here don't decide "hey, let's go drink our coffees on a bench in the park." But hopefully that will change a little bit.

Well part of the problem is that GCP is inhabited by many folks who like to bother others for money.

Every August when we do our theatre tours I have to go from the Fillmore to the Opera House for lunch... and I make it a habit of going thru GCP East. Well, it has gotten to be sort of a sport with me... I treat the park as a game of PacMan... where instead of avoiding the chomping... I avoid the panhandlers.

I first scout out the park to seek the path of least resistence... then I progress thru the park at a fast clip on the constant lookout for folks who see me and start heading my way to panhandle me. I make a few detours at a fast walk and someone will always call out to me from out of reach to try to slow me down... but I pretend I don't hear them and progress on my way out of reach to the SE exit from the park and make a bee line across Witherell unsolicited.

When I go to a park... I go for the quiet... I seem to have trouble in that department whenever I go thru Grand Circus Park....

[Brock7]

Panoramas of GCP:
1914 http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collecti...em/2007664604/
1916 http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collecti...em/2007662283/
1921 http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collecti...em/2007662287/

[AuburnSpeedster]

Well, it looks like from some point inbetween 1916 and 1921 is when the slice inbetween Madison and Adams became a parking lot and has essentially stayed that way ever since. All that was there before were houses

[EastsideAl]

Well, it looks like from some point inbetween 1916 and 1921 is when the slice inbetween Madison and Adams became a parking lot and has essentially stayed that way ever since. All that was there before were houses

As late as the early 1920s there were still houses in many areas around downtown. But the building boom of that period meant that almost all of them were torn down. Sometimes they went for planned projects, but many were also torn down on speculation to clear parcels for potential development to come.

In the meantime though, the huge growth in the number of cars being driven downtown meant that there was money to be made from any empty parcel. As Gistok notes above, if the parcel hadn't been built on yet by the time the great depression hit, chances are that it would sit empty for the next 3 decades or more, but be used for lucrative parking lots.