Let's talk about how the roads around here are PISS POOR, and an embarassment.

[brizee]

It's not a new problem but it's still shocking just unacceptable it is.

For as car dependent as this state is, how are the roads SOOOOO shitty?

I'd like to call out a couple in particular.

Woodward south of Grand Boulevard. It looks like a giant shotgun [[both shot and slug) went to work on it. Good job MDOT you should be proud.

Greenfield north of 8 Mile. Holy shit. Literally. Cedar Point has rides less bumpy than what I endured last night. I don't think you could go 10 feet head on or to the side without hitting a giant suspension ruining, tire busting hole. I'm pretty sure I saw a piece of wire frame sticking up out of one particular hole.

-The most nonexistant public transportation in the country.
-The highest auto insurance in the country.
-The [[has to be) worst maintained roads in the country.

We're past Michissippi, with recent politics we're Arizona with shittier winters.

[Kevgoblue]

I rode that stretch of Greenfield a couple days ago. You are not exaggerating at all. Worst mile of road I can remember driving over in long time. I think I've got a loose filling.

[stasu1213]

I was told by Planner that the State is responsible for Woodward. Woodward is in the poorest condition it ever been in since the first concrete was laid on it more than 100 years ago. Repaving was done on Woodward between Boston Edison and Highland Park border. The project was halted after never to go south of Grand Blvd. The lame excuse is that work on Woodward will proceed once tracks are being laid for the lightrail. Tthat might take forever. Snyder has the nerve to boast about a surplus while he wasted thousands on a stupid superbowl commercial.. Just repave Woodward saving tje far right lane. That lane and sidewalk would be reconstructed for the light rail. Go figure

[Detroitnerd]

This was the subject of a recent editorial...

http://metrotimes.com/news/politics-...nity-1.1629248

[ABetterDetroit]

For as car dependent as this state is, how are the roads SOOOOO shitty?

Absolute garbage roads

I just came back from a few days in Wisconsin last month, their roads are like airport runways compared to here.
You realize how crappy ALL of our roads are before you are a half mile out of DTWs parking deck.

[313WX]

The piss poor road maintenance is nothing compared to this gem I just read in the newspaper...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140207/METRO05/302070088/Wiping-out-snowy-Michigan-road-could-get-you-90-ticket

Wiping out on a snowy Michigan road could get you $90 ticket

[Detroitnerd]

A study by Anderson Economic Group done for the Michigan Chamber of Commerce estimated that the cost of vehicle repairs due to crashes involving poor road infrastructure was $542 million in Michigan in 2006.

The County Road Association of Michigan says more than 50 percent of Michigan local road miles are in poor condition, according to the state PASER rating system. Another 30 percent of local roads are in fair condition – and the pothole season has not begun. This year it is expected to be absolutely insane, and to drain road commissions of funds needed for repair.

But, whatever, as the state turns into a rural backwater, all those angry outstaters can rest assured that Lansing is socking it to Detroit. I'm sure that makes our slide into irrelevance worth it to many of them.

[brizee]

The piss poor road maintenance is nothing compared to this gem I just read in the newspaper...

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140207/METRO05/302070088/Wiping-out-snowy-Michigan-road-could-get-you-90-ticket

Wiping out on a snowy Michigan road could get you $90 ticket

I can believe it.

4 years ago during a rainy day on 96 I hit a puddle, lost control and almost hit a police car but instead hit the median. I got a ticket for "too fast for conditions". I was able to convince the Livonia judge to change it to a fine but no points.

But it was rainy and slick as shit, there were several accidents already, and the police car was in fact stopped in the left lane already tending to ANOTHER accident, on a sever curved portion of westbound 96. I still got hit with a two point ticket.

If you’re driving down the freeway and you go through a certain spot just fine, but I wipe out and lose control, then I violated basic speed law,” Shaw said. “Probably 1,000 other cars were able to go onto that exit with no problem, but she wiped out, so she’s in violation. You can’t blame the snow bank.”

Still makes no fucking sense to me, but it's the police WTF you gonna do?

[poobert]

Hey, where are all the sprawl-lovers?

Our state population is lower than it was 14 years ago but how much you want to bet we have a fuck-ton more roads that we obviously don't need?

[GP For Life]

This was the subject of a recent editorial...

http://metrotimes.com/news/politics-...nity-1.1629248

We just need to reallocate the tax revenue from social programs to roads. Roads benefit everyone, whereas social programs only benefit some.

[Detroitnerd]

We just need to reallocate the tax revenue from social programs to roads. Roads benefit everyone, whereas social programs only benefit some.

Yes, but some roads don't benefit me. I want only the roads that benefit me directly to be funded. Then the roads that ARE funded will be paved with gold.

[Khorasaurus]

I was told by Planner that the State is responsible for Woodward. Woodward is in the poorest condition it ever been in since the first concrete was laid on it more than 100 years ago. Repaving was done on Woodward between Boston Edison and Highland Park border. The project was halted after never to go south of Grand Blvd. The lame excuse is that work on Woodward will proceed once tracks are being laid for the lightrail. Tthat might take forever. Snyder has the nerve to boast about a surplus while he wasted thousands on a stupid superbowl commercial.. Just repave Woodward saving tje far right lane. That lane and sidewalk would be reconstructed for the light rail. Go figure

The rail on Woodward isn't going to be "forever." It's funded, under construction now and will be finished in 2016. And Woodward will be repaved as part of that. Now, I agree that we've waited too long to have it re-done, because the streetcar/light rail has been delayed several times. But construction has started, so it is only a matter of time at this point.

Also, Snyder's commercial wasn't paid for by public funds...

Generally, the reason we have crappy roads isn't politics - it's the weather. The amount of snow and ice we get, coupled with the freeze-thaw cycle, creates pockets of water underneath the pavement that undermine the road and create potholes and un-even-ness. And we can't permanently fix anything until the temperature is consistently above freezing.

[TTime]

Or we could just skip all that nonsense about fixing the roads and just allocate that money towards motor bikes, various weaponry and leather accessories.

[GP For Life]

Yes, but some roads don't benefit me. I want only the roads that benefit me directly to be funded. Then the roads that ARE funded will be paved with gold.

I mean, we all benefit from the roads through economic activity and the goods and services they transport. That said, the roads we use most often should be paved with gold and broken dreams of the proletariat.

[Detroitnerd]

Generally, the reason we have crappy roads isn't politics - it's the weather.

I would like to call at least a small amount of BS on that. Hamtramck urged the county for YEARS to repave Conant, which is a county road. They finally did it ... and stopped right at Hamtramck City Limits. That's right, they resurface the road and totally ignored the sections of road within the dense urban area. I mean, WTF?

[Detroitnerd]

I mean, we all benefit from the roads through economic activity and the goods and services they transport. That said, the roads we use most often should be paved with gold and broken dreams of the proletariat.

Except when the starving proletariat break down your door, rape your sister, and string you up by your basketball hoop in front of the garage. Perhaps during your last moments alive, you may realize you should have funded social programs a bit more. No worries. Happened to Louis XVI, so you'd be in good company.

[DetroitPlanner]

-The most nonexistant public transportation in the country.
-The highest auto insurance in the country.
-The [[has to be) worst maintained roads in the country.

We're past Michissippi, with recent politics we're Arizona with shittier winters.

I am sure you did see some rebar. It is rare but it does happen around here. Let me pile on:

- One of the lowest gas taxes and car registration rates in the country.
- No toll roads
- No options for County Road Commissions or Departments to raise their own taxes to keep up their own roads.

If that is not bad enough:

- Freeze thaw cycle here is brutal, it beats the heck out of the roads.
- Gas tax is based on per gallon not on price of fuel. State has not been raised since 1996 and Federal since the 1980's. http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxe...-by-state.aspx
- People combining trips or reducing miles driven through rideshare or working from home more.
- Country has policy for energy conversation [[not bad in an of itself).
- State has a sales tax on top of the gas tax which generates more revenue than the gas tax does [[6%). That goes to schools and general fund; not roads.
- Add last four bullets together and you have declining revenues while inflation makes everything cost more. People are buying less gas.


Woodward will be reconstructed [[better than just repaving) as part of the M-1 Streetcar. It has been delayed for years due to this project changing so many times.

Both transit and roads are funding chiefly out of the gas taxes. It should not surprise anyone that when the revenues go down but inflation still grows; you buy less services be it buses, roads, reduced service; reduced maintenance.

We get what we pay for.

[GP For Life]

Except when the starving proletariat break down your door, rape your sister, and string you up by your basketball hoop in front of the garage. Perhaps during your last moments alive, you may realize you should have funded social programs a bit more. No worries. Happened to Louis XVI, so you'd be in good company.

The last one through the door maybe. The first-28 [[never load all 30 in a mag) will be greeted with a 5.56 to the face.

[Detroitnerd]

The last one through the door maybe. The first-28 [[never load all 30 in a mag) will be greeted with a 5.56 to the face.

That's nice, dear. Shhh. The adults are talking about grown-up stuff. Play with your toys quietly.

[GP For Life]

That's nice, dear. Shhh. The adults are talking about grown-up stuff. Play with your toys quietly.

How about this? Instead of complaining about which to fund, we fund both, with the same dollars.

This is actually serious. As a condition of receiving state assistance recipients have to serve two days a week at their local county road commission? The amount of time they serve will gradually increase to full-time [[over years) the longer they remain on public assistance.

Bam! Better roads and less proles on the public dole, yo! Obviously, not for those on disability, etc.

Edit: Another thing I had suggested before is sending prisoners out on the roads with wheelbarrows full of cold patch. Similar idea.

[ferndalien]

But imagine how nice the $2.6B new lanes on 94 and 75 will look in comparison!

[Detroitnerd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7GHFuWsmX0

[DetroitPlanner]

But imagine how nice the $2.6B new lanes on 94 and 75 will look in comparison!

Or M-1, or New Buses, or the extension of the Dequindre Cut. Most of the funding for all of these projects come out of the same shrinking pots. BTW, I-94 needs reconstruction badly. It is in poor shape and operates like crap with a bunch of unsafe left turn and right turn entrances and exits. Only a portion of the total project cost can be attributed to a new lane.

[Detroitnerd]

Or M-1, or New Buses, or the extension of the Dequindre Cut. Most of the funding for all of these projects come out of the same shrinking pots. BTW, I-94 needs reconstruction badly. It is in poor shape and operates like crap with a bunch of unsafe left turn and right turn entrances and exits. Only a portion of the total project cost can be attributed to a new lane.

That's absolute bullshit and you know it, DP. Stop shilling for enlarging that barrier and removing those bridges.

[DetroitPlanner]

That's absolute bullshit and you know it, DP. Stop shilling for enlarging that barrier and removing those bridges.

please explain to me what is wrong with it? Does the road not need reconstrction? Does it not operate poorly and unsafely? Will the cost of the new lane not be a marginal cost in relationship to rebuilding everything?

Does not most of the cost of all of these come from the same source?

Is it not true that every dollar spent on transit will mean that there will be less for roads and vice-versa? Ultimately these are decisions that are made by state law, but it all comes from the same source.

Do you want this road to continue to be as big of a pile of crap or even bigger pile of crap than any other road in the area?

You don't want it? Go talk to your elected officials, they are the ones who have made the decision to fund it.