Let's talk about how the roads around here are PISS POOR, and an embarassment.

**erikd** · November-16-14, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

or they knew that in order to have things like decent roads, we need to have some revenue to pay for them... and they knew they'd need to lie to their base about where and how that revenue would be generated because their crazy far right nutjob base can't seem to fathom how society and public infrastructure works.

Not exactly a profile in courage by Rs but at least they've decided to govern [[even if they have to lie to their voters for their own good).

Great post. I totally agree with this assessment of the situation.

**Scottathew** · November-16-14, 06:52 AM

I hope they get get this done. We need to fund road investments. I had to pay $50 this year for an alignment after hitting a pothole.

I like adding it to the gas tax because it's going to hit bigger, heavier vehicles harder.

**Gpwrangler** · November-16-14, 07:34 AM

Most curb, road and lawn damage around here is from buses. They have destroyed some intersections.

With care I have managed to avoid any vehicle damage for many many years. Never had tire or suspension damage. If people would look up from their phones and shut up while driving I bet much of this damage is preventable.

**Jimaz** · November-16-14, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by erikd

... Detroit's infrastructure has been under maintained BECAUSE the Metro Detroit/Michigan/Federal governments chose to use infrastructure funding for expansion INSTEAD of maintenance....

This reminds me so much of Chapter Seven – A Mad Tea-Party in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland where the dishes never get washed because the guests instead shift places around the table as if that act alone will suffice. It's a wonderful allegory for irresponsibility.

**jackie5275** · December-18-14, 10:27 AM

As we are reminded, Yahoo says we're worst in the country. Now everyone else knows it too.

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/what-every-state-in-the-u-s-is-worst-at-105417305752.html?hp=1

**brizee** · December-18-14, 04:15 PM

So the public is going to be asked to raise the sales tax.

Also seems to be a TON of non road funding attached to the road funding initiative.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-20-15, 04:44 PM

What's everyone think of the sales tax increase? I would have preferred the gas tax hit myself, it would have directed the pain at who drives the most and trucks. Seems like Lansing wants every possible penny of tax they can get from us to go straight to them for the distribution.

**Gpwrangler** · January-20-15, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

What's everyone think of the sales tax increase? I would have preferred the gas tax hit myself, it would have directed the pain at who drives the most and trucks. Seems like Lansing wants every possible penny of tax they can get from us to go straight to them for the distribution.

It won't matter, they will piss it away on everything but the intended purpose.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-21-15, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

It won't matter, they will piss it away on everything but the intended purpose.

Your right, why should we expect different.

**emu steve** · January-21-15, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

What's everyone think of the sales tax increase? I would have preferred the gas tax hit myself, it would have directed the pain at who drives the most and trucks. Seems like Lansing wants every possible penny of tax they can get from us to go straight to them for the distribution.

The gasoline tax is soooooooooooo obvious, esp. now.

Raise the tax a nickel a gallon now and another nickel later and no one will hardly know.

Gasoline taxes are the ultimate user tax. The more you use [[gasoline) the more you pay.

**Smirnoff** · January-21-15, 09:34 AM

Any how many voted Snyder back into office.......

**ABetterDetroit** · January-21-15, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by emu steve

The gasoline tax is soooooooooooo obvious, esp. now.

Raise the tax a nickel a gallon now and another nickel later and no one will hardly know.

Gasoline taxes are the ultimate user tax. The more you use [[gasoline) the more you pay.

Exactly, why it wasn't slowely notched up years ago just shows you how useless they can be in Lansing.

**brizee** · January-31-15, 04:41 PM

This proposal is about to crash and burn.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...uits/22525911/

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...roads_tax.html

And I still think this is gonna poison the well for any transit funding in later years.

**Honky Tonk** · January-31-15, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Exactly, why it wasn't slowely notched up years ago just shows you how useless they can be in Lansing.

EVERYONE in MI that buys gasoline pays .19 a gallon in tax. That revenue was supposed to go for the repair of roads and bridges. Maybe you can tell me where that money is going?

MAcc · January-31-15, 07:21 PM

I'm convinced none of you understand how depressed Michigan is. From the economy, to brain drain, to GDP, to public schools. Michigan has been nosediving for 15 years. Please don't rely on a local media presence to tell you how dire it truly is. Wake up.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-31-15, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

EVERYONE in MI that buys gasoline pays .19 a gallon in tax. That revenue was supposed to go for the repair of roads and bridges. Maybe you can tell me where that money is going?

I will give it a try in a short version.

http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,...782---,00.html

Whenever I want to find where the money went, I prefer to study the actual numbers in a budget report. To do that, the link is provided above. If you study the revenues over the years from the gasoline tax, it is a fact that the income over the past decade has remained flat at best and has actually decreased a little. I think everyone will agree that very little costs the same as it did a decade ago and new construction is, unfortunately, more expensive. People become numb to numbers with lots of zeros. Large projects, for example, road rebuilding with bridge replacements, on a comparatively short section of freeway in a congested area can easily jump to an 8 figure contract. Since they have been behind on improvement projects for so long, I have come to the conclusion that capital improvement funding for MDOT's budget is insufficient.

Obviously the big problem is how to fund this. Lansing seems incapable of passing legislation on the use tax for gasoline that bumps it without a huge increase. A dime increase in the per gallon gasoline tax would give them an additional billion dollars to work with. Switching to a gasoline tax based on the percentage of the cost of a gallon of gas, which the legislature considered in December, is stupid for obvious reasons. Raising a one cent sales tax to solve this problem is even more insane because it becomes closer to a 2 billion dollar tax hike that is not a use tax. A use tax only makes sense because it hits out of state travelers and truckers that come here by vehicle at least a little bit. A sales tax increase is aimed directly at the residents of Michigan because of the exclusions of real estate, rent, food, etc. If you need more money for infrastructure for MDOT, just raise the tax the bare minimum to give them a budget increase. The exorbitant tax increase in the proposal that is going to an election in May is a crazy overreaction to a budget problem in one department.

Vote "NO" on the sales tax proposal increase in May and force this legislature and the governor to lead and solve this problem with the minimal tax increase necessary.

**Honky Tonk** · January-31-15, 08:45 PM

Since they have been behind on improvement projects for so long......

And there's the problem. Drivers didn't stop buying gas for years. The' ve been buying gas all along, and paying the tax all along. The State has been negligent and fiscally irresponsible, not the taxpayer. Now when their backs are against the wall, it's always the same solution, more taxes. It's the same with education. "We want our kids to have a great education". "It's for the KIDS"! Solution? Raise taxes. Yet stories keep surfacing about incredible waste. Tricky Ricky just started taxing senior citizen pensions. Sorry, no sale. Let Ilitch pay for his own damn coloseum.

**ABetterDetroit** · January-31-15, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Since they have been behind on improvement projects for so long......

And there's the problem. Drivers didn't stop buying gas for years. The' ve been buying gas all along, and paying the tax all along. The State has been negligent and fiscally irresponsible, not the taxpayer. Now when their backs are against the wall, it's always the same solution, more taxes. It's the same with education. "We want our kids to have a great education". "It's for the KIDS"! Solution? Raise taxes. Yet stories keep surfacing about incredible waste. Tricky Ricky just started taxing senior citizen pensions. Sorry, no sale. Let Ilitch pay for his own damn coloseum.

Good enough for the May proposal. It goes without saying they have these tax hike elections in May, August or October so the special interest can get out the vote when turn out at the polls would be low otherwise very intentionally.

**LarryC39** · February-01-15, 12:49 AM

And pothole season has begun. Roads are already spawning baby craters or enough ripples to make you seasick.

**erikd** · February-03-15, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

EVERYONE in MI that buys gasoline pays .19 a gallon in tax. That revenue was supposed to go for the repair of roads and bridges. Maybe you can tell me where that money is going?

The $.19 per gallon gas tax is used exclusively for road and transportation funding. This tax has been set at $.19 per gallon since 1997. Due to inflation, $.19 isn't worth nearly as much today as it was 18 years ago, therefore the gas tax revenue is no longer sufficient to cover the cost of maintenance.

It's not some kind of government scam, it's just the reality of inflation.

**Honky Tonk** · February-03-15, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by erikd

The $.19 per gallon gas tax is used exclusively for road and transportation funding. This tax has been set at $.19 per gallon since 1997. Due to inflation, $.19 isn't worth nearly as much today as it was 18 years ago, therefore the gas tax revenue is no longer sufficient to cover the cost of maintenance.

It's not some kind of government scam, it's just the reality of inflation.

Show me proof all of the .19 per gallon tax collected is being spent effectively on road and bridge maintenance, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Show me proof revenues collected from the MI State Lottery, is effectively being applied to Education, and I'll concur taxes need to be raised, again. Show me proof, monies aren't being chanelled from the road and bridges maintenance fund, to DPS, to Ilitch's coloseum, to the "privately funded" 3.3 mile Blight Rail, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Besides inflation, there' s also shrinkage.

**erikd** · February-08-15, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Show me proof all of the .19 per gallon tax collected is being spent effectively on road and bridge maintenance, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Show me proof revenues collected from the MI State Lottery, is effectively being applied to Education, and I'll concur taxes need to be raised, again. Show me proof, monies aren't being chanelled from the road and bridges maintenance fund, to DPS, to Ilitch's coloseum, to the "privately funded" 3.3 mile Blight Rail, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Besides inflation, there' s also shrinkage.

Let me get this straight...

It seems that you are asserting that the $.19 per gallon state gas tax [[set in 1997) should still be enough to fund the same level of road/bridge maintenance work in 2015 as it did in 1997.

It also seems that you reject the fact of inflation as the reason why $.19 per gallon can not pay for the same level of maintenance in 2015 as it did in 1997, and instead assert that it must be due to some kind of malfeasance or misallocation of the $.19 state gas tax funds.

If you have proof that the $.19 state gas tax funds are being diverted to DPS, the new hockey arena, or any other non-transportation infrastructure expense, then present it. Don't just throw out unfounded accusations of misallocation and then demand that all of your allegations be proven false before you will accept the fact of inflation.

**canuck** · February-08-15, 06:41 PM

I'm really saddened by the fact youse guys dare insinuate Michigan has the worst roads anywhere. That is very insulting to us in Quebec. Contractors work real hard to muck things up with cheap materials charged 30% above reasonable cost to keep us in the Guinness book.

**RO_Resident** · February-08-15, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Show me proof all of the .19 per gallon tax collected is being spent effectively on road and bridge maintenance, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Show me proof revenues collected from the MI State Lottery, is effectively being applied to Education, and I'll concur taxes need to be raised, again.

According to the FY2014 financial report, 99.5% of lottery profits went to the school aid fund. That's right, $742.8MM of $746.8MM disbursed by the lottery went to schools.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...R_476598_7.pdf

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Show me proof, monies aren't being chanelled from the road and bridges maintenance fund, to DPS, to Ilitch's coloseum, to the "privately funded" 3.3 mile Blight Rail, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Besides inflation, there' s also shrinkage.

State gas taxes are largely distributed by formula. [[You can read the details here: http://house.michigan.gov/hfa/Archives/PDF/act51.pdf) Some is out of date. MDOT did give M-1 a $10MM grant for construction. However, MDOT also used some of the money to match federal dollars to reconstruct portions of Woodward and to fix some bridges.

The state also has a Transportation and Economic Development fund to make grants to help spur development. I don't see anything for the hockey arena for last year.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...l_479831_7.pdf

**ABetterDetroit** · February-10-15, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Show me proof all of the .19 per gallon tax collected is being spent effectively on road and bridge maintenance, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Show me proof revenues collected from the MI State Lottery, is effectively being applied to Education, and I'll concur taxes need to be raised, again. Show me proof, monies aren't being chanelled from the road and bridges maintenance fund, to DPS, to Ilitch's coloseum, to the "privately funded" 3.3 mile Blight Rail, and I'll concur we need to raise our taxes, again. Besides inflation, there' s also shrinkage.

This is the essential problem with the never compromise and raise a budget mindset of the far right refusing to address a serious issue if the fix is money. What happens is the problem becomes so exasperated and the public at large gets sick of being a pawn in a stupid tug of war to solve the issue that you end up with a ridiculously large over tax that every lawmaker that wants money can hitch their wagon to it. A 2 billion dollar tax grab like raising the sales tax is a perfect example of this. Just raise the gas tax a dime and fix the damn roads.