What the Michigan Depot could look like

[noggin]

What the Michigan Depot could look like if Matty Moroun was not spending all his money buying off politicians.

http://www.hellyeahdetroit.com/2014/...d-it-out-pics/

[piczka]

So could the Packard Plant. Wait..........more jobs, restaurants, lofts and retail space.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I have never heard of a person, business, or government that had any money attached propose spending the 9 digits it would take to do a project like this. Lots of people can think up great plans for the station. I have several. But I don't have the money. One of the problems with the site is the office tower: it is not a natural fit for things you might do with the underlying station. There is also the fact the immediate surroundings are not the ideal background for a luxury hotel or high-end office tower or sparkling retail project. Therein also lies the opportunity: there could be a huge development of both the building and surrounding blocks. But that will take a long time, an intelligent vision, and a boatload of money. Matty Maroun is hardly the only roadblock.

I like the idea of a campus for a natural history museum, science center, aquarium & planetarium. But that would cost upwards of a billion dollars, not including the building reno. I hope someone redevelops it into something eventually. But it needs a person or a business or a government entity with the money as the first ingredient.

[Scottathew]

Therein also lies the opportunity: there could be a huge development of both the building and surrounding blocks. But that will take a long time, an intelligent vision, and a boatload of money.

Ding.

Hopefully we can see a larger scale [[blocks) residential neighborhood development succeed soon. All it will take is one or two and then "they" will get "it".

[renf]

Thank you for posting information about the great rehabilitation of the KC depot.
I have been there both before and after the rehabilitation. The effort to
restore that depot was very succesful. It could be done in Detroit.

[professorscott]

Well, the KC depot has the advantage that it is not two miles from anyplace that people want to visit.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Well, the KC depot has the advantage that it is not two miles from anyplace that people want to visit.

This is why I think envisioning Michigan Central as a contemporary transit hub is terribly misguided. Had the station originally been built in a more central location it might never have been abandoned and left to rot. It wouldn't make much sense in my opinion- plus it would be exhaustingly expensive- to make it a rail hub again. At least the current [[tiny & unremarkable) Amtrak station is both in a relatively busy midtown and on Detroit's main drag. I do think a better multi-service station should replace that, but it would be a fraction of the cost of renovating the old beautiful place, plus it is still in a better position relative to density and traffic. I am not sure that MCS could ever really justify its renovation cost, unless it was spread out over a large area of development. Here's to hoping!

[royce]

Matty Moroun bought the MCD to keep others from using it as a transportation hub. That would be competition to his bridge empire. He couldn;t have that. The only realistic renovation could have come from MGM making it their permanent casino. The space in front of MCD and even the warehouse nearby could have been used for the new casino. MGM spent 750 million for its new digs. At that price the MCD would have been the only non-Moroun entity that could have pulled off the renovation.

With the development of Slows, the Mercury Bar, and other restaurants in that area, Roosevelt Park would be ideal for additional retail and residential. A renovated MCD could fit in with that plan. However, as long as Moroun owns the MCD, nothing positive is going to happen, period.

[wolverine]

I still think it could be a train station and a hotel. Get a ton of federal and state money to revive it and have a modern train tunnel so I can go to downtown Detroit from Chicago or on to Toronto on high speed rail.

The "too far from downtown" argument has always been weak. So is the new center station, and the streetcar won't help except allowing me to avoid a bus or taking a cab. Many, but not all cities have the rail station away from the geographical center of downtown....Chicago, Philly, Cincinnati just some off the top of my head. Building a stub connection for probably a mere $150 million [[pocket change for transit projects) could link the station to downtown.

The tower is perfect for a hotel and your lower levels function as waiting spaces and museum....or perhaps holiday travel overflow and event space like the unused historic Chicago Union Station...which most of the time does nothing except look pretty

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I still think it could be a train station and a hotel. Get a ton of federal and state money to revive it and have a modern train tunnel so I can go to downtown Detroit from Chicago or on to Toronto on high speed rail.

When the pot o' gold shows up, let me know.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Matty Moroun bought the MCD to keep others from using it as a transportation hub.

Royce, I don't understand how the MCS posed a threat to his trucking empire. Freight rail already permeates Michigan, Ontario, and the Great Lakes region as a whole. Would someone else have made the station into the most luxurious waiting rooms for coal and taconite pellets imaginable?

With the development of Slows, the Mercury Bar, and other restaurants in that area, Roosevelt Park would be ideal for additional retail and residential. A renovated MCD could fit in with that plan. However, as long as Moroun owns the MCD, nothing positive is going to happen, period.

I doubt seriously that Roosevelt Park would be turned into retail and residential. If you meant turning the station and tower into retail and residential I have one question for you: how many generations would go by before the stores and apartments recouped the $100M estimated cost of redeveloping it? The Book Cadillac is struggling to make it's loan payments, and it was a MUCH less expensive reno than MCS would be. And it got lots of tax credits. And it is centrally located. And the business climate in its vicinity is rapidly improving and is infinitely better than the MCS area.

You said Matty won't let any positive thing happen to MCS, period. Well, have you ever heard of anyone ever bringing a large chunk of money to the table to work wonders on the place? Of course not. No one ever has, before or after Matty's purchase. Without a huge subsidy of some sort, it just doesn't have the capacity to be a profitable venture. When Developer X presents a $150M redevelopment plan, complete with how he'd get the money, and Matty refuses to sell to him, then I will agree that Matty is the problem. Until then, I am quite certain that the building's condition and location are the main reasons no one has attempted it.

[wolverine]

When the pot o' gold shows up, let me know.

it's been there with no takers.

[Chinman]

i have shot MANY music videos at the Train Station...Just because it is a Ruin! Michael Bay has used it in three[[3) of the Transformers Movies because of its look and faulty look. I have been inside setting up shots and had cement falling on our heads. it is beyond repair unless on has MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS to repair!

[ghettopalmetto]

This is why I think envisioning Michigan Central as a contemporary transit hub is terribly misguided. Had the station originally been built in a more central location it might never have been abandoned and left to rot.

I don't understand this. Michigan Central Station functioned as a rail hub for decades. Suddenly, "it's too far away". Why the sudden change in paradigm? Did the building up and move?

Detroit Metro Airport is 23 miles away from downtown Detroit. It's even further from Brooks Patterson's business oasis of Oakland County. Yet people still use DTW, even with it's poor ground transportation.

So what other excuses do we have to consider besides Location?

[Hermod]

I don't understand this. Michigan Central Station functioned as a rail hub for decades. Suddenly, "it's too far away". Why the sudden change in paradigm? Did the building up and move?

Detroit Metro Airport is 23 miles away from downtown Detroit. It's even further from Brooks Patterson's business oasis of Oakland County. Yet people still use DTW, even with it's poor ground transportation.

So what other excuses do we have to consider besides Location?

It functioned as a rail hub because that is where the NYC/MC originated and terminated their many trains. With the elimination of passenger service through the Detroit-Windsor tunnel, the rationale for having a train station at that location disappeared. I don't see AMTRAK running that many intercity trains into and out of Detroit. Its location makes it useless as a transit hub for local rapid transit. The building is functionally obsolete and in the wrong location for repurposing.

[ghettopalmetto]

The building is functionally obsolete and in the wrong location for repurposing.

Just like the building in Kansas City. Or Cincinnati.

[Hermod]

Just like the building in Kansas City. Or Cincinnati.

Take a look at the stations which have been restored. The concourse is the central point of the building with some minor office space. MCS is an office building with a concourse on the first couple of floors.

[ghettopalmetto]

Take a look at the stations which have been restored. The concourse is the central point of the building with some minor office space. MCS is an office building with a concourse on the first couple of floors.

Therefore, don't even bother restoring the concourse building. Just give up, roll over, and die.

Sounds a lot like the arguments we used to hear about the Book-Cadillac.

[eliboyer]

I've always thought that MCS could be like the Ferry Building Marketplace in San Francisco...

http://www.ferrybuildingmarketplace.com/

[bailey]

Therefore, don't even bother restoring the concourse building. Just give up, roll over, and die.

Sounds a lot like the arguments we used to hear about the Book-Cadillac.

You mean the Book Cadillac that hasn't been able to sell its condos and the ones it could, it did so at fire sale prices? where the developer isn't making loan payments? where it is constantly rumored to be on the brink of losing its flag?

the Book got done, and yes, that is very nice. But it's not like it made any financial sense....nor will a deal like it get through again.

[ghettopalmetto]

You mean the Book Cadillac that hasn't been able to sell its condos and the ones it could, it did so at fire sale prices? where the developer isn't making loan payments? where it is constantly rumored to be on the brink of losing its flag?

the Book got done, and yes, that is very nice. But it's not like it made any financial sense....nor will a deal like it get through again.

I'm sure you heard of that little recession we had in 2008. Detroit was not immune to that. Nor was it a static and permanent condition, either.

But one gets the sense that if it doesn't agree with the Leave It To Beaver Baby Boomer narrative of Everyone-Move-to-the-Suburbs-and-Lay-Waste-to-the-City, then somehow it's a "waste".

Your generation had its time to decimate the cities of our nation. Now go retire to your stripmalls, and let my generation clean up the mess.

[Hermod]

Your generation had its time to decimate the cities of our nation. Now go retire to your stripmalls, and let my generation clean up the mess [[but we want your money to do it with).

DetroitYes is great on playing SimCity with other people's money.

[Hermod]

Richmond, Virginia had three stations.

One, Broad Street Station, was at a ways from downtown and has been repurposed as the Science Museum of Virginia.

Main Street Station was close to downtown [[beautiful Victorian architecture) and was repurposed as a large shopping mall [[with little parking). All the stores went broke and the state took it over for gummint offices.

Hull Street Station was very small and the Norfolk Southern uses it for storage.

[bailey]

I'm sure you heard of that little recession we had in 2008. Detroit was not immune to that. Nor was it a static and permanent condition, either.

Yeah its the 2008 recession that is still keeping the Book from selling it's million dollar condos and getting bookings and stopping the developer from paying the pension funds that provided the funding. Next it will be all Obama's fault that Westin pulled the flag. Nothing at all to do with it just being a deal that relied more on hype than actual financial sense.

But one gets the sense that if it doesn't agree with the Leave It To Beaver Everyone Move to the Vinyl Sided House in the Suburbs Narrative of the Baby Boomer generation, then somehow, it's a "waste".

No, restoring the depot is a "waste" because the time for sweetheart crony insider loans to connected developers for fantastical projects is over. No one is getting liar loans [[repayment optional) from pension funds ever again around here. An actual business case is going to need to be made or you need an angel investor like Dan Gilbert willing to just blow half a billion on a vanity project. Dan, Penske et al know where the Depot it is.. I don't see him sending Rock Ventures folks over there anytime soon.

Your generation had its time to decimate the cities of our nation. Now go retire, and let my generation clean up the mess.

"Your generation"? I'm under forty. My generation is the one stuck cleaning up the mess. Of course, because most of us leave here, those of us that stay [[or return) are saddled with white elephants like the Depot and crushing debt and fucked up infrastructure... the best situation would be for a massive natural disaster to erase much of metro Detroit from the face of the earth.

[mikeg19]

I think realistically the three ways MCS get's redone is

A) if some pie-in-the-sky plan by some big name developer comes along and does it. Someone like a Donald Trump, any person who can throw away a ton of money and not give a shit. Does it mean the development is successful and lasts? No. But it's an idea.

B) Corktown continues to re-brand itself and develops more and more. MCS is almost entirely surrounded by new developments or potential developments [[CPA Building anyone?). Obviously this will take some time. Maybe Matty or a developer at that point will be willing to sink in the money required to turn it into a hotel/convention center/planetarium/residential/whatever.

C) Last but not least [[although most probable in my opinion) is tearing down the tower and keeping the grand entrance way. You can still have a railway station out back [[assuming high speed links Detroit to Ann Arbor or Dearborn at some point) and use the remaining space as whatever you could imagine. I'm curious to see what the delta is between redeveloping the entire structure vs the entrance.