Rick Snyder for Governor

**MotownSpartan** · July-20-09, 05:12 PM

I know very little about this guy but he seems to be the type of person a lot of diverse groups could get behind. As it appears now, he's socially liberal and economically conservative. Having a person with smart business sense is definitely needed in this state right now and it's a bonus that he also appears not to be an extreme right winger on social issues.

http://www.rickformichigan.com/reinv...ricks-top-ten/

Check out item number 5 on his top 10 list. Pretty impressive coming from a Republican.

5. Restore Cities and Control Urban Sprawl In order for Michigan to truly reinvent itself, its cities and communities must become more vibrant. Rick will work to improve the stateâ€™s city centers and create attractive living and working environments for its citizens. Rick supports the establishment of a proper mass transit backbone in the state.

MIRepublic · July-20-09, 10:45 PM

I'm actually very intrigued about his candidacy, and definitely want to here more. Reading the guy's ideas, he could have very well run as a Democrat of Independent. That he's so explicitly pro-urban, pro-transit, and pro-environment is a huge starting point for many an independent resident. I kind of get the impression that if the way hadn't been cleared for Cherry, he may had very well ran as a Democrat.

Now, what remains to be seen is if he's simply talking a good game and these things aren't really priority for him. But, as far as his platform is concerned, he already has a more comprehensive urban agenda than anyone [[Democrat of Republican) in the race.

lilpup · July-20-09, 10:51 PM

I really wouldn't mind a Milliken style moderate Republican but honestly I have a very difficult time trusting anything GOP associated right now. Between the violence of national politics and the idiocy I see coming from Bishop in Lansing I think it's going to take time and a lot of hard work to win me back.

MIRepublic · July-20-09, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

I really wouldn't mind a Milliken style moderate Republican but honestly I have a very difficult time trusting anything GOP associated right now. Between the violence of national politics and the idiocy I see coming from Bishop in Lansing I think it's going to take time and a lot of hard work to win me back.

Yes, it'd take me quite a bit to get beyond the label he's chosen, and the group he's chosen to associated him with, but then you look at Dillon [[who's a complete failure as far as I'm concerned and that health care restructuring he recently released leaves much to be desired) and what the Michigan Dems are still putting forward after all of these years [[more lackluster candidates) it makes me more prepared to stomach someone like a Snyder.

And, if it take voting Snyder to keep out the likes of Cox & Co., I'll bite the bullet, for sure. I'm already thinking strategically about this. At least for me, Snyder has instantly placed himself as a front-runner in my book. It's really rather unfortunate that he's going to have to spend a butt-load of money just so people know who he is.

Fidel · July-21-09, 11:46 AM

There is no such thing as a moderate Republican anymore, I'll vote Whig before Rethuglican. After what Engler did to this state....no thanks!

**MotownSpartan** · July-21-09, 12:53 PM

No offense, but that's a horrible reason not to vote for someone. Not researching a person and simply making up your mind solely on whether they have an R or D in front of their name is the attitude that will make this state worse, not better. I'm not saying you have to like Rick Snyder but to publicly state that you will not vote for someone solely based on party affiliation is kind of crazy. You should try to make an informed choice based on the candidates' ideas and plans.

**Patrick** · July-21-09, 01:12 PM

MI needs someone with sharp business skills and background in order to get back on track. The Dems arent offering up anyone with that at all.

Fidel · July-21-09, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

No offense, but that's a horrible reason not to vote for someone. Not researching a person and simply making up your mind solely on whether they have an R or D in front of their name is the attitude that will make this state worse, not better. I'm not saying you have to like Rick Snyder but to publicly state that you will not vote for someone solely based on party affiliation is kind of crazy. You should try to make an informed choice based on the candidates' ideas and plans.

There's plenty of reasons that I won't vote ReThuglican and yes they have a large part to do with the rethug examples of Engler and Spencer Abraham, not to mention the last nominee the ReThugs threw up there with ole' Dick "Blackwater" Devoss. Other than Miliken ,who I thought was a fair man, name me one republican politician that's done anything for the working man in our state.....I dare ya?

I'm no Granholm fan but the veil has been lifted on the Rethugs and sad to say under that veil lurks pure evil!

**MotownSpartan** · July-21-09, 03:52 PM

If that's your attitude then have fun blindly voting for people based solely on party affiliation. It's worked out really well for the citizens of Detroit [[yes, I am aware that city elections are technically non-partisan).

If the Dems know they can count on your vote no matter what they do in office they won't have much incentive to actually serve your interests [[same goes for any political party).

**Irvine Laird** · July-21-09, 04:02 PM

Power is the iron law of political parties. It trumps everything. I thought the movie "Swing Vote" showed how ridiculous it could get. In general, Democrats are for the "working man" and Republicans for the "boss man" only so far as those groups can deliver votes.

Snyder's candidacy appeals to me because he is not a politician. He is not one of the people who "got us into this mess" and his perspective as a successful businessman and venture capitalist may be just the thing we need.

Look, politics is the art of compromise. The only way to get anything done is to give and take. We can't have it both ways in Michigan. I'm in favor of government programs to help people who need it, but it takes money to pay for those programs and money comes from a prosperous economy that grows from production of goods and services [[not debt). We've got to compromise.

It is also high time we elected officials who understand economics as well as social issues. An entrepreneur brings imagination and a range of experience and knowledge that could benefit both the business community [[the economy) and the delivery of government programs [[to address social issues).

I'm not ready to say that Rick Snyder is that person, but he is worthy of consideration even if his party affiliation stinks to some. Perhaps it is our white-knuckled grip on the old alliances that is holding us back.

Fidel · July-21-09, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

If that's your attitude then have fun blindly voting for people based solely on party affiliation. It's worked out really well for the citizens of Detroit [[yes, I am aware that city elections are technically non-partisan).

If the Dems know they can count on your vote no matter what they do in office they won't have much incentive to actually serve your interests [[same goes for any political party).

John Engler and Spencer Abraham is what happened to the city of Detroit, I know I'm one of those people, I was working for the State in the IT department before Engler tore that to shreds along with Spencer Abraham and the Bush administration who was highly instrumental in outsourcing a ton of tech jobs to India and China. I'm not against all repubs, but you've still not shown me one example of how republicans have helped this state.

EastSider · July-21-09, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by MIRepublic

...look at Dillon [[who's a complete failure as far as I'm concerned and that health care restructuring he recently released leaves much to be desired)

What do you think needs to be done to improve his proposal?

**MotownSpartan** · July-21-09, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Fidel

John Engler and Spencer Abraham is what happened to the city of Detroit, I know I'm one of those people, I was working for the State in the IT department before Engler tore that to shreds along with Spencer Abraham and the Bush administration who was highly instrumental in outsourcing a ton of tech jobs to India and China. I'm not against all repubs, but you've still not shown me one example of how republicans have helped this state.

I'm not sure anyone could show you an example that you'd be satisfied with, but this probably has more to do with your own political calibration rather than the example. It's certainly reasonable to philosophically disagree with a candidate or party but blindly voting based on party affiliations makes little sense.

Your past examples of what you allege is Republican failure especially don't apply to Synder. If you were using past examples of Republican failure to oppose guys brought up through the MI Republican system like Cox or some of the other Republican candidates I think your position would have more merit. However, Synder is completely outside that Republican political system, or any political system for that matter, he's spent his life in the private sector and has had nothing to do with Republican politics during the Engler administration or any other.

croweblack · July-21-09, 08:39 PM

allright I'll bite:

one thing:

There are many but as a business owner [[ya know the kind that you despise) I would say creation of the LLC.
If I remember correctly it was one of the first in the nation and it was aimed soley at small business and the ability for the average man to create a business while not having to worry about filing multiple tax returns.

oh and it also kept the sharks from suing at will[[well slowed them down at least!)

**cloud_wall** · July-21-09, 09:57 PM

Crowe, an LLC doesn't do much to change the business's liability in the sense that your talking about. It basically protects the members from each other - i.e., if your partner incurs a personal debt on a contract, you're not on the hook. But if your partner is negligent while carrying out company business, then the business itself is still on the hook. And unless you're operating without insurance, the business itself is the only defendant that matters.

All of which is a long way of saying, that's a nice story, but the sharks are not the issue here, dude. Also, the preferred nomenclature is greedy trial lawyer.

**texorama** · July-21-09, 10:04 PM

It's all academic. He doesn't have a shred of a chance of being nominated by today's Michigan Republican Party.

croweblack · July-21-09, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by cloud_wall

Crowe, an LLC doesn't do much to change the business's liability in the sense that your talking about. It basically protects the members from each other - i.e., if your partner incurs a personal debt on a contract, you're not on the hook. But if your partner is negligent while carrying out company business, then the business itself is still on the hook. And unless you're operating without insurance, the business itself is the only defendant that matters.

All of which is a long way of saying, that's a nice story, but the sharks are not the issue here, dude. Also, the preferred nomenclature is greedy trial lawyer.

point by point

1. I was talking about a Single memeber LLC

2.A single member LLC only requires 1 federal tax return [[only as an individual)

3. A single member LLC is typical of a small business

4. As a small business in detroit, it is almost impossible to carry insurance

5. if you do not carry insurance, the only asset the sharks can attach is the property where the business takes place.[[the only asset of the LLC)

6. if that property is mortgaged to the hilt, the sharks are simply out of luck because they are second or third in line behind the first mortgage

7. No one has pierced the corporate veil in Michigan[[besides drinking establishments and even that is a little shaky)

8.It feels great to tell the sharks to "get a default bitch!"

9.. Thank you Mr. Engler

MIRepublic · July-21-09, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by texorama

It's all academic. He doesn't have a shred of a chance of being nominated by today's Michigan Republican Party.

You know, I'd have actually said the same thing before they elevated Ron Weiser, also of Ann Arbor, to chair. It seems like very slowly but surely the party's moving back east to the more socially moderate wing of the party. Maybe it's a blip and maybe the West Michigan cabal still control the party, who knows, but there does seem to be signs of a different strategy.

**jtf1972** · July-21-09, 11:18 PM

I am a Dem who has no problem crossing party lines for the right candidate. From the little I see of Snyder, I like what I see.

There is nothing wrong with the Republican Party that couldn't be cured by getting rid of the Republicans.

**cloud_wall** · July-22-09, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by croweblack

point by point

1. I was talking about a Single memeber LLC

2.A single member LLC only requires 1 federal tax return [[only as an individual)

3. A single member LLC is typical of a small business

4. As a small business in detroit, it is almost impossible to carry insurance

5. if you do not carry insurance, the only asset the sharks can attach is the property where the business takes place.[[the only asset of the LLC)

6. if that property is mortgaged to the hilt, the sharks are simply out of luck because they are second or third in line behind the first mortgage

7. No one has pierced the corporate veil in Michigan[[besides drinking establishments and even that is a little shaky)

8.It feels great to tell the sharks to "get a default bitch!"

9.. Thank you Mr. Engler

I didn't argue the tax issues. Pass-through taxation is definitely the way to go and the LLC is a great form overall.

However, if your business doesn't carry insurance, your property is leveraged to the hilt, and your business has no assets, you might have more to worry about than being sued by some small fry. And if all those things describe you and your business, then you personally probably aren't collectible either.

In those rare situations where trying to pierce the LLC veil [[go after the individual) is worth it though, it has been done. It's particularly easy where it's a single-member LLC, as the first requirement is that the business form is a "mere instrumentality" of the member being sued. Check out Foodland Distributors v Al-Naimi.

Overall, the LLC is a superior form to the sole proprietorship or partnership. You are right, and kudos to those in Michigan who were ahead of the curve. But most of your creditors are probably [[and hopefully) not going to be tort litigants. It seems your post was just another example of how the GOP flails out blindly at trial lawyers whenever it seems like a remotely plausible argument. It really isn't here. The fact that you think carrying around default judgments against your company is a badge of honor and sign of success is pretty telling.

As for this candidate, his views are pretty intriguing. He could get a few crossover votes if Cherry is the inevitable democratic candidate. But in the crowded GOP field, it's hard to see him coming out ahead.

**Danny** · July-22-09, 10:08 AM

I have a hunch that "Billionaire Dick!" may run for governor. This is his chance.

croweblack · July-22-09, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by cloud_wall

I didn't argue the tax issues. Pass-through taxation is definitely the way to go and the LLC is a great form overall.

However, if your business doesn't carry insurance, your property is leveraged to the hilt, and your business has no assets, you might have more to worry about than being sued by some small fry. And if all those things describe you and your business, then you personally probably aren't collectible either.

In those rare situations where trying to pierce the LLC veil [[go after the individual) is worth it though, it has been done. It's particularly easy where it's a single-member LLC, as the first requirement is that the business form is a "mere instrumentality" of the member being sued. Check out Foodland Distributors v Al-Naimi.

Overall, the LLC is a superior form to the sole proprietorship or partnership. You are right, and kudos to those in Michigan who were ahead of the curve. But most of your creditors are probably [[and hopefully) not going to be tort litigants. It seems your post was just another example of how the GOP flails out blindly at trial lawyers whenever it seems like a remotely plausible argument. It really isn't here. The fact that you think carrying around default judgments against your company is a badge of honor and sign of success is pretty telling.

As for this candidate, his views are pretty intriguing. He could get a few crossover votes if Cherry is the inevitable democratic candidate. But in the crowded GOP field, it's hard to see him coming out ahead.

I have seen that case before but it is very tough to get around the "fraud" portion of the three pong test. All of our creditors are tort litigants. When I said "get a default bitch" i meant that as a negotiating tool. The sharks hate when there is a huge mortgage and no insurance on a property. I am not talking about huge cases just the usual slip and falls or "I was in my apartment and the tenant above me flooded his apartment and a wet ceiling tile fell on me and I am maimed for life!!"

I actually read a law review article on the case you mentioned and in it the author said that NO Michigan appellate court has published opinion piercing the corporate veil--like my law professor always said--ZERO is a tough number to argue with!!

**Hypestyles** · July-23-09, 08:01 PM

Mike Steele says 'moderates are welcome but don't expect to change anything'... so I dunno.. Hopefully he'll be at least willing to directly engage Detroiters with frank discussions on his views and hopefully promoting regionalism.. Just avoid any questions about Cobo... and I'm waiting for the inevitable "family values" litmus test to head his way...