Considering a building rehab project in Mexicantown, Need input.

**louis** · January-12-14, 07:52 AM

this post is a cross post from the Detroit Reddit page from user /u/maxxit. his post wasn't getting much love so I brought it here for a second opinion. the post is as follows:
I'm considering rehabbing a multi unit building in SW Mexicantown. The building has a few 3 bedroom townhouse units that would need complete rehab to the tune of 25k each. Currently the place is completely scrapped. It's located in the vicinity of West Vernor and Livernois. What can you tell me about this area? Would there be any demand for newly rehabbed 3 bedrooms units? [[Or might they sit empty waiting for renters?) What would you expect to pay in rent around there?
I'm not a Detroit native, but like the idea of being a small part of Detroit's inevitable comeback... But on the more realistic side of things....
Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm...ab_project_in/

**Dan Wesson** · January-12-14, 10:27 AM

I guess you could call this due diligence. Not!

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 11:40 AM

I don't think that you would have too many issues with being a white guy over there. The neighborhood still has many whites.

Yes you still have to worry about getting ripped off. It seems by your statements [[I am white!) that you think only black people steal. You are green and will be suckered by many non-black people. I have news for you most black people DON'T STEAL! Don't judge people by their color but as Rev Dr King said the content of their character.

Your biggest issue will be the new Bridge to Canada. The area around Livernois will no doubt change quite a bit due to it. So much so that you could either win the lottery or end up in the poor house. Will the land be re-zoned? Will there be a huge increase in truck traffic [[it don't take a rocket scientist to see the best route connecting the bridge to I-94 is Livernois). Will there be an increase in shipping in the intermodal yard located there? Seems like a risky move to me. Can you get by with a more modest project?

**davewindsor** · January-12-14, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by louis

this post is a cross post from the Detroit Reddit page from user /u/maxxit. his post wasn't getting much love so I brought it here for a second opinion. the post is as follows:
I'm considering rehabbing a multi unit building in SW Mexicantown. The building has a few 3 bedroom townhouse units that would need complete rehab to the tune of 25k each. Currently the place is completely scrapped. It's located in the vicinity of West Vernor and Livernois. What can you tell me about this area? Would there be any demand for newly rehabbed 3 bedrooms units? [[Or might they sit empty waiting for renters?) What would you expect to pay in rent around there?
I'm not a Detroit native, but like the idea of being a small part of Detroit's inevitable comeback... But on the more realistic side of things....
Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm...ab_project_in/

Using a little common sense can go a long way.

First, research the prices on the Internet.

Second, walk around the neighborhood during the day. Walk around the neighborhood during the night. Ask yourself, does this neighborhood feel safe to you? Ask yourself, could you live in this neighborhood? If you see a lot of broken glass, maybe that should give you a hint.

Third, walk around the neighborhood again during the day. Write down the phone numbers of places for rent. Write down the digits of the places for sale. Call them up and book appointments to view them. Get the prices. Now you've got average prices for the neighborhood, and I'm willing to bet that 90% of the time it'll be significantly different from what you found on the Internet. The Internet is like the National Inquirer. Next, ask them how long it's been vacant/for sale. Ask them about the neighborhood. Is it reasonably safe and what to expect? How many times has this unit been burglarized? Has it been scrapped? Do the neighbors watch out for one another? Common sense questions.

Fourth, get a CCW license.

**Honky Tonk** · January-12-14, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by louis

this post is a cross post from the Detroit Reddit page from user /u/maxxit. his post wasn't getting much love so I brought it here for a second opinion. the post is as follows:
I'm considering rehabbing a multi unit building in SW Mexicantown. The building has a few 3 bedroom townhouse units that would need complete rehab to the tune of 25k each. Currently the place is completely scrapped. It's located in the vicinity of West Vernor and Livernois. What can you tell me about this area? Would there be any demand for newly rehabbed 3 bedrooms units? [[Or might they sit empty waiting for renters?) What would you expect to pay in rent around there?
I'm not a Detroit native, but like the idea of being a small part of Detroit's inevitable comeback... But on the more realistic side of things....
Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm...ab_project_in/

I'm vaguely familiar with the area. I really don't think you're ethnicity would be an issue, as much as what you're thinking of asking for rent/fees. That neighborhood HAS seen better days, and might not draw the type of clientele you desire.

**aj3647** · January-12-14, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

It seems by your statements [[I am white!) that you think only black people steal.

Nowhere in his post did he imply that in any way, shape, or form.

**mwilbert** · January-12-14, 12:54 PM

I didn't actually see that in there either. It seemed like a general [[and probably justified) concern about theft, not focused on any particular perpetrators
.

**preserve** · January-12-14, 01:06 PM

The neighborhood is fairly stabe, try contacting Rashida's office or the SWDBA for info on rent. Right now, unless they make Dragoon & Livernois 2 way streets, from south of Vernor Dragoon is the route to 94 and I believe you will have lots of time before the new bridge construction & completion would affect the area.

**Richard** · January-12-14, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by louis

this post is a cross post from the Detroit Reddit page from user /u/maxxit. his post wasn't getting much love so I brought it here for a second opinion. the post is as follows:
I'm considering rehabbing a multi unit building in SW Mexicantown. The building has a few 3 bedroom townhouse units that would need complete rehab to the tune of 25k each. Currently the place is completely scrapped. It's located in the vicinity of West Vernor and Livernois. What can you tell me about this area? Would there be any demand for newly rehabbed 3 bedrooms units? [[Or might they sit empty waiting for renters?) What would you expect to pay in rent around there?
I'm not a Detroit native, but like the idea of being a small part of Detroit's inevitable comeback... But on the more realistic side of things....
Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?
http://www.reddit.com/r/Detroit/comm...ab_project_in/

Personally I would not go 3 bedroom if they were not originally built as such,more traffic,more wear and tear,more costs.

Figure an hour for set up and breakdown of tools and take them with you in any city.

Not a native but are you going to live in the city?General rule of thumb,if you are a small investor and cannot be hands on your property within an hour it can end up being very expensive.

It really does not matter what anybody expects in rent,your numbers will tell you the base,and there are lots of low income with good credit so pull a credit check,vet your tenants,be specific as to how many are allowed to live there once rented,be a good neighbor to the city and fellow neighbors on the block and you should not have to worry much.

Plus what everybody has posted,I am pretty sure by now Lowell can sell copies of the detroityes guide of Rental Property Ownership In Detroit For Dummies by now.

No way implying that you are a dummy,its just a pun on some other well known books and no disrespect intended.

Keep in mind that if the bridge gets built the areo park will be more developed and because of the public transportation linking it to the city a lot of now considered borderline undesirable neighborhoods will be very desirable,that's a 10 year plan.

**Max** · January-12-14, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Your biggest issue will be the new Bridge to Canada. The area around Livernois will no doubt change quite a bit due to it. So much so that you could either win the lottery or end up in the poor house. Will the land be re-zoned? Will there be a huge increase in truck traffic [[it don't take a rocket scientist to see the best route connecting the bridge to I-94 is Livernois). Will there be an increase in shipping in the intermodal yard located there? Seems like a risky move to me. Can you get by with a more modest project?

I'm the OP. Thanks for all the good input so far. [[And certainly no racist implications intended to the theft concern!)

I'm really interested in how the International Crossing might effect the residential areas just around livernois. I can't believe I didn't connect the dots on this, but you're right, it'll have a huge impact, one way or another!

Anyone have any further input or speculation on what you'd expect to happen to the residential in the blocks behind livernois in this area once the bridge is built? [[What's the expected timeline? Hope the remaining nuisance legal hurdles the overcome soon)

**Max** · January-12-14, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by preserve

The neighborhood is fairly stabe, try contacting Rashida's office or the SWDBA for info on rent. Right now, unless they make Dragoon & Livernois 2 way streets, from south of Vernor Dragoon is the route to 94 and I believe you will have lots of time before the new bridge construction & completion would affect the area.

So would you expect the bridge to improve the area? Or just hurt it by increasing the traffic with wider streets cutting through the neighborhoods?

**Richard** · January-12-14, 01:43 PM

Look at the bigger picture other then just the immediate neighborhood and what others are doing,farmland in the city? The large chunks of property bought by EEV.

The scheduled start of the bridge is 2016,pull up the maps of Areo Detroit [[now renamed) and look where the boundaries are and how they will impact the city and shape its future,the city has about a three year window to solidify what direction it will go in,that's why alot of things are being now and fast and at the time maybe not in the best way on the surface.

They have already built massive distribution centers and warehouses before the bridge is even started.It is reversing the live in the burbs work in the city aspect to live in the city and work in the burbs with consumer related being in the city and little production,or on a small scale aspect.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Nowhere in his post did he imply that in any way, shape, or form.

Lets see....

"Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?"

Maybe I am reading too much into this. Maybe I am not. Maybe in his mind white=rich?

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by preserve

The neighborhood is fairly stabe, try contacting Rashida's office or the SWDBA for info on rent. Right now, unless they make Dragoon & Livernois 2 way streets, from south of Vernor Dragoon is the route to 94 and I believe you will have lots of time before the new bridge construction & completion would affect the area.

Don't be too sure hombre. Estimated completion date is 2019.
http://www.semcog.org/Data/Apps/tran...t.cfm?id=11070
http://www.semcog.org/Data/Apps/tran...t.cfm?id=11387

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Keep in mind that if the bridge gets built the areo park will be more developed and because of the public transportation linking it to the city a lot of now considered borderline undesirable neighborhoods will be very desirable,that's a 10 year plan.

What aeropark? There is no airport there?!? The reality of adding a major piece for trading such as a bridge will mean more trucks will be drawn to the area. It also will mean added activity for the DIFT. In terms of economic development this is a great thing, but at the micro level not much is known or will be known until the bridge is actually open and under use.

**Richard** · January-12-14, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

What aeropark? There is no airport there?!? The reality of adding a major piece for trading such as a bridge will mean more trucks will be drawn to the area. It also will mean added activity for the DIFT. In terms of economic development this is a great thing, but at the micro level not much is known or will be known until the bridge is actually open and under use.

Do you really think they want to build a bridge to move trucks?

The bridge may be hundreds of millions but this opens up billions,there is a coverage map of the boundaries.

Think of anything transportation related or anything that relies on shipping,trucking,rail,even manufacturing,no longer located within the city limits and the long term effects.

http://www.businessleadersmi.com/fil...xecSummary.pdf

http://vantageport.org/ is the new name.

The map is here

http://detroitregionaerotropolis.com/

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Do you really think they want to build a bridge to move trucks?

The bridge may be hundreds of millions but this opens up billions,there is a coverage map of the boundaries.

Think of anything transportation related or anything that relies on shipping,trucking,rail,even manufacturing,no longer located within the city limits and the long term effects.

http://www.businessleadersmi.com/fil...xecSummary.pdf

http://vantageport.org/ is the new name.

The map is here

http://detroitregionaerotropolis.com/

1. YES! It is to reduce the time spent getting trucks to the 401.
http://www.partnershipborderstudy.co...DRIC-PIOH7.pdf

2. I don't get where you are coming from. Are you talking about the confines of the landing of the bridge? If so, how does aerotropolis [[by metro airport) have anything to do with the impacts of trucks or added movements from the DIFT to the DRIC?

**aj3647** · January-12-14, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Lets see....

"Will the place likely get scrapped again before it gets rented? Do ya think the tools would get stolen out from under us?
Is there much gang activity there? Are a couple of friendly white guys trying to fix up some blight likely to have much trouble?"

Maybe I am reading too much into this. Maybe I am not. Maybe in his mind white=rich?

So now using the word "scrapped" comes with an implied racial connotation?

Let me ask you this, if a black person looking to move to a neighborhood in or near Howell asked a similar question, i.e. "would a black person have a problem here" [[given the area's history as the epicenter of the Michigan KKK), would you deem the question it to be racist? No you wouldn't, and please don't pretend otherwise.

It's not racist to acknowledge the reality that being a certain race in a certain area might make you stand out in a way that will attract "unwanted" attention. And that obviously cuts both ways. You and I both know that there are some areas of Detroit where a white person walking around is going to attract some attention, and not of the good variety. Don't be naive. Just ask the family of that white Australian guy who tried to be a landlord in the hood and got a bullet to the head for his efforts.

**Richard** · January-12-14, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

1. YES! It is to reduce the time spent getting trucks to the 401.
http://www.partnershipborderstudy.co...DRIC-PIOH7.pdf

2. I don't get where you are coming from. Are you talking about the confines of the landing of the bridge? If so, how does aerotropolis [[by metro airport) have anything to do with the impacts of trucks or added movements from the DIFT to the DRIC?

The topic in general was investing and not the movement of trucks,part of investing is looking at the long term potential and taking into account not where the city is today but where it is going in the future,it is kinda of a planning thing.

If there is going to be a development in part of and outside of the city encompassing 60,000 acres and providing,

A warehouse market with depth [[28.8 million square feet in 598 buildings)

Class A, speculative, multi-tenant office building market. While there are 87 buildings containing 1,096,300 sf,

flex/R&D space consists of 2% of the Aerotropolis’ total industrial square footage with 656,066 square feet in 19 buildings.

Hotel inventory in the Aerotropolis consists of 4,075 rooms across
27 hotels.

2.9 million sf of retail space in 192 buildings.

Residential up to 60,000 homes.

It is all there in the links.

It could be conceivable that it would have a big impact on the city and future values.

It really does not matter where the dirt is,what matters is where it is going to be long term into the future,that is why the OP posted is it not?

All of this demolish the factory because developers want raw land is hog wash,ask Elio motors,who designed and built the car in Detroit but bought a GM plant in Shreveport,Louisiana and only needed a million sqft,3 factory have been demolished in the city in the past two years that they could have used.

But they were stripped and gutted? It does not matter,

Will then begin "significant hiring", building up to a workforce of 1,500 by late 2015. Renovation of the old plant will begin later this year, should the deal go ahead this spring.

Does that loss affect the city and ROI in the city?

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...gm-truck-plant

Who is dropping the ball there?

I guess the bottom line is there are really no bad areas to invest in today one just needs to look at what they may be tomorrow.

**DetroitPlanner** · January-12-14, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

So now using the word "scrapped" comes with an implied racial connotation?

Let me ask you this, if a black person looking to move to a neighborhood in or near Howell asked a similar question, i.e. "would a black person have a problem here" [[given the area's history as the epicenter of the Michigan KKK), would you deem the question it to be racist? No you wouldn't, and please don't pretend otherwise.

It's not racist to acknowledge the reality that being a certain race in a certain area might make you stand out in a way that will attract "unwanted" attention. And that obviously cuts both ways. You and I both know that there are some areas of Detroit where a white person walking around is going to attract some attention, and not of the good variety. Don't be naive. Just ask the family of that white Australian guy who tried to be a landlord in the hood and got a bullet to the head for his efforts.

This area has plenty of white people living in it. All sorts of people live here from all sorts of ethnic backgrounds. To equate it to Howell or to the point I was trying to make shows your naivete.

He was the one pointing out he was white and going to Detroit and had concerns. He was the one questioning trouble. I may have not given a liberal approved politically correct answer but my intention was to point out don't think that only blacks [[remember he was concerned as he was a white guy looking to go into Detroit) will give you trouble. You have to watch out for character in Detroit, not color.