Detroit Police Chief Fires Up The Gun Debate

[TKshreve]

Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday.

Seems to me this new Chief of ours likes rocking the boat.

Is this exactly the type of paradigm shift our city needs to turn the proverbial corner?

Or has he opened up Pandora's Box?

One thing is for sure, this is quite a surprise coming from the biggest little liberal city in the mid west.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

[Hypestyles]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE



Seems to me this new Chief of ours likes rocking the boat.

Is this exactly the type of paradigm shift our city needs to turn the proverbial corner?

Or has he opened up Pandora's Box?

One thing is for sure, this is quite a surprise coming from the biggest little liberal city in the mid west.

Okay chief. put your resources where your mouth is. Start CCW training classes for low cost, available for city residents without any convictions.

[Wesley Mouch]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE

Seems to me this new Chief of ours likes rocking the boat.

Is this exactly the type of paradigm shift our city needs to turn the proverbial corner?

Or has he opened up Pandora's Box?

One thing is for sure, this is quite a surprise coming from the biggest little liberal city in the mid west.

We'll see how much radical thinking Detroit can take. Pandora's box? I think it has been open for a long time as far as crime and guns are concerned. Maybe a political Pandora's box... but as with the new mayor -- it will all be about results. If Craig can made a difference in crime rates, maybe even liberals will realize not every solution is one-government-mandated-size fits all.

[guito13]

Okay chief. put your resources where your mouth is. Start CCW training classes for low cost, available for city residents without any convictions.

There are courses available to ANYONE for less than $100 bucks all over the place. Once you apply for your CPL [[around $150 bucks) you will not be approved if you have anything on your record that the laws say prohibit you from obtaining the CPL.

[rb336]

Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday.

How many people need to be armed for this affect to happen? There is literally no empirical evidence that more guns = less crime.

[Hypestyles]

How in the heck does the modern history [[50 years) of Portland, Maine even REMOTELY compare to Detroit in terms of population, local economics and violent crime trends?

[TKshreve]

[/I][/COLOR]How many people need to be armed for this affect to happen? There is literally no empirical evidence that more guns = less crime.

Yes, but a lot can be deduced from the fact that criminals have been targeting soft marks like the elderly, dollar stores and churches. Seems to me criminals have some semblance of logic behind their "decision making" process. And it would suggest they want to find t least resistance possible.

[davewindsor]

Typical politician. Talk about why you agree with the status quo instead of coming up with a new policy or system to address the city's high crime rates.

[JBMcB]

There is literally no empirical evidence that more guns = less crime.

There is no empirical evidence that less guns = less crime, either.

[EastsideAl]

There is no empirical evidence that less guns = less crime, either.

There's certainly empirical evidence that less guns = less deaths and injuries from gunfire. At least there is everywhere else in the world where the NRA doesn't pay to have the research and evidence suppressed.

[bailey]

I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2pMGqTmYZ

Maine is also 98% white.

Since we're making stupid apples to oranges comparisons....instead of more CCWs in Detroit... how about less black people? Because, MAINE is safe.

Right chief?

[EastsideAl]

One thing is for sure, this is quite a surprise coming from the biggest little liberal city in the mid west.

What in the world gave you that idea? [[Other than Fox Ranting... umm... "News"). This city is already armed to the teeth, and has been so for decades now.

If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them

You know what else might work well? If the police actually showed up and did their damn job when citizens called them.

[JBMcB]

At least there is everywhere else in the world where the NRA doesn't pay to have the research and evidence suppressed.

There are fewer gun-related deaths in England than in the US to be sure. There are even fewer gun deaths in Switzerland, where pretty much everyone owns an assault rifle, and is trained in it's use. The same statistical aberrations can be found all over the US. You can find correlations going both ways, so I don't see how you can draw inferences from the statistics.

[Bham1982]

Yeah, let's put even more guns in Detroit; that will work out just dandy.

Is the police chief aware that around 80% of homicide victims know their killers? Arming a city to protect against the stereotypical "night prowler" will have very bad consequences, as that's not reality when it comes to gun violence.

[Bham1982]

There are fewer gun-related deaths in England than in the US to be sure. There are even fewer gun deaths in Switzerland, where pretty much everyone owns an assault rifle, and is trained in it's use. The same statistical aberrations can be found all over the US. You can find correlations going both ways, so I don't see how you can draw inferences from the statistics.

Switzerland's gun owners are all trained military, and are forbidden from keeping ammo. Kind of a poor comparison to the U.S.

[EASTSIDE CAT 67-83]

[/I][/COLOR]How many people need to be armed for this affect to happen? There is literally no empirical evidence that more guns = less crime.

You ever read the Armed Citizen, works every time for those folks.

Score
Potential victim who is armed and trained: 1
Bad Guy: 0

[Dan Wesson]

Okay chief. put your resources where your mouth is. Start CCW training classes for low cost, available for city residents without any convictions.

Let's get some facts going on this thread.

A CCW is a term for a Felony Charge of Carrying a Concealed Weapon without a CPL which is a Concealed Pistol License.

The proper term is CPL in Michigan.

[Dan Wesson]

Talk about timing, I came across this Link with some very good reasons and advise for armed self defense today. It came by way of a very cool, calm and collected site dedicated to collecting and care of a specific old fashioned firearm.

I am not a fan of the firearm this site has in it's URL but you couldn't carry this if you wanted to.

If you are not firearm friendly that's fine. Carrying a concealed weapon is a responsibility where you have to become the calmest person in any given situation.

Here is an excellent post from an experienced LEO...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_.html

[poobert]

“I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed.”


From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2pMPpRXXB

Wait, seriously? He's drawing that conclusion.

Maine is sparsely populated and largely wilderness. Its largest city has 66k people, smaller than St. Clair Shores. It essentially has no urban areas.

Well, Chief Einstein, murders and ice cream sales both increase, year after year, in the summertime, so ice cream must cause murders, right?

This is the first time I've really doubted his intelligence. I mean, it is just such a ridiculous comparison.

I have no doubt that criminals don't want to get shot, and would sooner rob an unarmed person than an armed person, but I'd be willing to bet Detroit is one of the most heavily armed cities in the country. I just take for granted that most people here are armed. I'm sure criminals do too, and realize it is a roll of the dice when they go to rip somebody off. I'm not sure how many more guns we're supposed to get, really.

Hey, Chief Cocksucker, your cops all have guns, make them show up and do their jobs instead. Loser.

[JBMcB]

Switzerland's gun owners are all trained military, and are forbidden from keeping ammo. Kind of a poor comparison to the U.S.

They are forbidden from owning military ammo, they can buy their own ammo if they want.

Good point about military training, though. Maybe reforming DPS into a military academy style operation would instill some civic responsibility into the populace?

[Wesley Mouch]

There's certainly empirical evidence that less guns = less deaths and injuries from gunfire. At least there is everywhere else in the world where the NRA doesn't pay to have the research and evidence suppressed.

Thanks for bringing us the evidence that the entire world knows, yet is suppressed successfully by the NRA. Congrats as well to Edward Snowden for telling us the US spy agencies spy.

[TKshreve]

What in the world gave you that idea? [[Other than Fox Ranting... umm... "News"). This city is already armed to the teeth, and has been so for decades now.

Haha..... you pegged me for a Fox booster. That's a first.

If the city is already armed to its teeth, then why would competent individual in a position of authority even suggest such a notion? Perhaps he feels the wrong individuals are armed?

It definitely seems Chief Craig is condoning a vigilante mentality.

You know what else might work well? If the police actually showed up and did their damn job when citizens called them.

Really? Do we need to rehash the underfunded, overworked Police Department debate? There's no fat left to trim. They do not have the resources plain and simple.

If you want to argue their productivity, well that's another conversation. I'd like to think Craig has his finger on the pulse of that discipline as well; evidenced in the recent splurge of raids we've seen.

[Jason]

A lot of murders are people getting angry at something [[usually "disrespect" ) and making bad decisions while angry. Without guns in the picture most of those turn into fist fights.

Even more murders are gang related, and everyone is already armed.

And yeah, the burglars might like to pick easy targets, but if the situation changes to where every burglary turns into a gunfight, then the criminals are going to make sure they'll win the gunfight, and they have a severe advantage.


And the statistics have been run on guns, and gun owners are far far more likely to either accidentally or intentionally kill themselves than they are to use the gun to defend themselves.

[Dan Wesson]

You know what else might work well? If the police actually showed up and did their damn job when citizens called them.

Call them? After the fact? Police doing their job to most peoples satisfaction is when they react. The crap hits the fan politically when they are required to be proactive.

Like they say, 'When seconds count, the police are only minutes away".

[Novine]

Who besides the Chief doesn't think that most Detroiters are already armed?