Detroit Public Transportation: 2014 and beyond.

**brizee** · January-02-14, 01:18 PM

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This thing has been established since last March.

4 members across the counties will be replaced in the next two months.

The RTA doesn't have a name yet.

Or a logo.

Or it's own website. It's buried on SEMCOG's. And what's there is barebones, outdated and not all that informative.

Get your website game up Detroit.

http://www.semcog.org/RTA.aspx

**brizee** · January-02-14, 01:23 PM

The first corridors being looked at by the RTA for "upgrading" is

M-59
Gratiot
Woodward
Michigan "from Metro airport to Ann Arbor" [[a weird saying, so you won't be able to travel from Downtown to Dearborn/Fairlane?)

http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/...Amendment5.pdf

There's money for environmental impact and alternative analysis for all four of them. Although since the choice of superbusses has already been made...

I guess the studies will be staggered over a number of years for some reason. The only one close to completion is Woodward.

**brizee** · January-02-14, 01:35 PM

http://www.woodwardanalysis.com/

It looks like for the most part the Woodward Route has been decided.

It looks to be mostly median running with some mixed in traffic towards the end for the burbs.

It's mostly curb running inside the city, except between 6 Mile and 8 Mile.

It won't be competing with M1. Between New Center and downtown it takes Cass south and John R north.

I guess they're going to get ridership numbers up anyway they can because the plan is to eventually just stop SMART on Woodward south of 8 mile and scale back DDOT 53.

Still no clue on construction timetable/ETA on when you'll be able to take the first ride. Assuming this place even funds it this fall.

**brizee** · January-02-14, 01:50 PM

I'm just curious, what exactly will the area be asked to fund later this year?

Are we funding all four potential BRT lanes?

Just Woodward?

That potential Ann Arbor/Detroit rail line that keeps getting flogged around?

Are we just giving them more money for endless studies and analysis and impact statements?

Since it's the new year and I'm still optimistic here's to hoping that these routes don't take 30 years to get looked at.

8 Mile
Grand River
Van Dyke [[while we're at it do something about the train clusterfuck in that entire area at McNichol)
Warren
Greenfield
Livernois
7/or 6 Mile

**jt1** · January-02-14, 01:57 PM

SEMCOG and RTA together. Hell, throw MDOT in there and it could make for a great three stooges concept.

**Detroitnerd** · January-02-14, 02:01 PM

I'm expecting studies, more studies, and intentionally bad ideas that will keep effective rapid transit from being built in metro Detroit. If they're really sharp, maybe they'll propose a mode that's totally wrong for an area that doesn't need it, like a maglev from Northville to Rochester. A bus along M-59 is probably the stupidest idea yet. Nobody wants to go anywhere on M-59 on a bus, so this is just transit as "loser cruiser" again.

**professorscott** · January-02-14, 02:19 PM

If anything comes of the RTA at all, the first thing to happen will be Woodward, just because it's been under study already. The study must come first, unless you don't want Uncle Sugar to pony up. My crystal ball tells me that Gratiot would come after that.

All of this depends on the RTA securing some kind of stable funding source to pay for operation of such a system. That's the second thing that has to happen, and the public has to vote to pay for it; so the first thing that has to happen is to come up with a credible plan that 50.1% of the voting public will accept, at least enough to vote yes for it.

**jt1** · January-02-14, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

All of this depends on the RTA securing some kind of stable funding source to pay for operation of such a system. That's the second thing that has to happen, and the public has to vote to pay for it; so the first thing that has to happen is to come up with a credible plan that 50.1% of the voting public will accept, at least enough to vote yes for it.

I'm looking forward to this making it on the ballot in about a decade

**mtburb** · January-02-14, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

Since it's the new year and I'm still optimistic here's to hoping that these routes don't take 30 years to get looked at.

8 Mile
Grand River
Van Dyke [[while we're at it do something about the train clusterfuck in that entire area at McNichol)
Warren
Greenfield
Livernois
7/or 6 Mile

And here's routes that I added myself so that much of the developed tri-county region can be covered:

East Jefferson/Lake Shore Drive
West Jefferson/Biddle Avenue
Fort Street
Ecorse
Eureka
Southfield Road
Telegraph
Ford Road
Middlebelt
Plymouth
12 Mile [[with a short deviation onto 11 Mile in Royal Oak)
16 Mile

**stasu1213** · January-02-14, 03:42 PM

Its the Motor City. What do you expect from a car culture enviroment with its controlled planners and elected officials

**RO_Resident** · January-02-14, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by brizee

The first corridors being looked at by the RTA for "upgrading" is

M-59
Gratiot
Woodward
Michigan "from Metro airport to Ann Arbor" [[a weird saying, so you won't be able to travel from Downtown to Dearborn/Fairlane?)

http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/...Amendment5.pdf

There's money for environmental impact and alternative analysis for all four of them. Although since the choice of superbusses has already been made...

I guess the studies will be staggered over a number of years for some reason. The only one close to completion is Woodward.

The corridors are written into the RTA legislation.

[[4) Subject to available resources, an authority may plan, design, develop, construct, and operate a rolling rapid transit system on at least 1 or more corridors within the authority's public transit region. An authority, with the approval of the federal transit administration and in compliance with all applicable federal and state regulations, shall determine exact routes and station locations. An authority may design routes to augment, complement, enhance, replace, or improve other forms of public transportation operating within or on the corridors.
[[5) Subject to subsection [[4), if an authority created on the effective date of this act includes Macomb county, Oakland county, or Wayne county, the authority may, subject to available resources, plan, design, develop, construct, and operate a rolling rapid transit system on at least 4 corridors within the authority's public transit region and the initial plans for a rolling rapid transit system may include all of the following:
[[a) A Woodward corridor line to operate along, on, or near Woodward avenue between a location in or near the downtown Detroit station and a location in downtown Pontiac in Oakland county. As used in this subsection, "downtown Detroit station" means a location in or near the Campus Martius area of downtown Detroit.
[[b) A Gratiot corridor line to operate along, on, or near Gratiot avenue between the downtown Detroit station and a location in downtown Mt. Clemens in Macomb county.
[[c) A northern cross-county line to operate between the city of Pontiac and the city of Mt. Clemens, using a route to be determined by the authority. The route determined by the authority under this subdivision shall have stations along Big Beaver road in the city of Troy and highway M-59 in portions of Oakland and Macomb counties.
[[d) A western cross-county line to operate between the downtown Detroit station and the Ann Arbor Blake transit center for a distance of approximately 47 miles. This corridor shall include, at a minimum, stations in the city of Ypsilanti, Detroit Wayne county metropolitan airport, and the city of Dearborn. The authority shall determine the exact route.

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-124-547

**professorscott** · January-02-14, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

The corridors are written into the RTA legislation.

Yes, but entirely permissively. Read the critical word: "may". It does not say that the RTA has to create those routes, only that it can; and in fact it's open-ended, so the RTA can create any other routes that it likes.

**Novine** · January-02-14, 07:55 PM

My cynical self says that we can expect an August 2014 vote so that the Tea Partiers can have maximum "No" impact and to give bus supporters/rides one less reason to come out and vote in November.

**Gistok** · January-02-14, 08:46 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that TRAINMAN is back but under a different name?

**RO_Resident** · January-02-14, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by professorscott

Yes, but entirely permissively. Read the critical word: "may". It does not say that the RTA has to create those routes, only that it can; and in fact it's open-ended, so the RTA can create any other routes that it likes.

Absolutely, just expect those corridors to get a thumbs-up/thumbs-down before other corridors are added to the mix.

In addition to the corridors listed above, I'm sure the Washtenaw County folks want something done on Washtenaw Ave.

That Great Guy · January-03-14, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

My cynical self says that we can expect an August 2014 vote so that the Tea Partiers can have maximum "No" impact and to give bus supporters/rides one less reason to come out and vote in November.

Exactly what do you mean by this? Please explain.

**Novine** · January-03-14, 02:00 PM

I expect that there will be a push to have the RTA vote in August 2014 to ensure that Tea Partiers can maximize their influence in a low turn-out election. Republicans don't want bus riders/supporters coming out to vote in November 2014 as that could influence other races besides the RTA vote.

**dtowncitylover** · January-03-14, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Am I the only one who thinks that TRAINMAN is back but under a different name?

Nope! I couldn't remember his handle but that's who I was thinking of.

That Great Guy · January-03-14, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

I expect that there will be a push to have the RTA vote in August 2014 to ensure that Tea Partiers can maximize their influence in a low turn-out election. Republicans don't want bus riders/supporters coming out to vote in November 2014 as that could influence other races besides the RTA vote.

I read that the SMART vote is in August and is completely separate from the approved RTA tax on car registration fees. I also read the RTA vote is wanted in November by transit tax advocates. So, is anyone in favor of this? How much do you think it should be?

I think that public transit should be greatly improved in Greater Detroit using multiple tax mechanisms and revenue sources. So, I'm in favor of taxes to support SMART, DDOT and the RTA but want to see more ridership, safe conditions and leadership to make our region more competitive to attract and keep good paying jobs.

So, how should we pay for mass transit? The fare box and the ten percent of the State gas tax just don't appear to be enough.

**stasu1213** · January-03-14, 11:03 PM

why did SMART cease dropping passengers off in Detroit after 6pm?

**mtburb** · January-04-14, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

why did SMART cease dropping passengers off in Detroit after 6pm?

Or why they mostly stopped even crossing into the city proper outside of the weekday rush?

**DetroitPlanner** · January-04-14, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

why did SMART cease dropping passengers off in Detroit after 6pm?

Funding to operate SMART comes from suburban cities. If Detroit wanted to pay SMART to subsidize this service I am sure they would. It is a matter of cash and operating two systems. Hopefully the RTA will be able to get this going if they can ever find funding to actually operate the RTA.

**stasu1213** · January-04-14, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Funding to operate SMART comes from suburban cities. If Detroit wanted to pay SMART to subsidize this service I am sure they would. It is a matter of cash and operating two systems. Hopefully the RTA will be able to get this going if they can ever find funding to actually operate the RTA.

It is amazing to me how the government could get money to repair crumbling freeways not only in Michigan but across the country. RTA and other mass transit that would prolong the wear and tear of highways always have a hard time getting fund.

**Novine** · January-04-14, 11:25 AM

That's because we have the misnamed Michigan Department of "Transportation" when it should be Michigan Department of "Highways". I know that MDOT provides funding for buses and rail and non-motorized projects but it's a drop in the bucket and until recently, was done begrudgingly and with minimal funding.

That Great Guy · January-04-14, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Funding to operate SMART comes from suburban cities. If Detroit wanted to pay SMART to subsidize this service I am sure they would. It is a matter of cash and operating two systems. Hopefully the RTA will be able to get this going if they can ever find funding to actually operate the RTA.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/how-the...east-michigan/

Detroit residents will likely get a chance to vote next November 2014 to tax car registration fees along with the those in Wayne, Oakland, Macomb and Washtenaw Counties. This should enable SMART to better operate in the City of Detroit. Possibly this should be writing?

This is described in the link. There appears to be two separate parts to the funding of RTA using local funds.

Please see how the RTA proposes to fund and coordinate public transit and comment.