Detroit Public Transportation: 2014 and beyond.

[ABetterDetroit]

There comes a time when there is no other choice but to hire the very best consultants that have no vested interest in the outcome of the decisions at hand.

It is long overdue at this juncture.

Detroit and Wayne County have a long history of creating misery for their own residents for the benefit of a few in political power.

Most especially with increases on property tax rates.

History proves Wayne County can not be trusted. They will choke their residents right out of their own houses for money in their coffers in a heartbeat then chase the rest away with insane taxes on rent and property.

It it has already been done on a tremendous scale and they obviously have no intentions of even slowing down the tax increases on housing for their own citizens even after past glaring failures.

There always is another “we must have”.

Detroit has and had for a long time the highest property tax rates for any city in America. It didn't work. People with money left. Then smart people who wanted to have money left. Those who remained were poor. The schools went to shit because there was only one demographic left. Expensive problems ensued.

The personal tax structure for Michigan has to be renovated badly. Public Transportation should be the catalyst to get it done. To many taxes have been raised so they hinder economic growth. Their dinosaurs from a by gone era. New taxes that would raise needed revenues are ignored simply because they would be a new tax. Something has to change.

Our most challenged communities are getting awfully expensive to go in and clean up when they collapse. The fixes have a short time span because the underlying cause is still there and getting worse.

If the taxes are lowered on property the regular people can actually take advantage of the abundant buildings and houses and create jobs, careers and homes all over Detroit instead of just where the wealthy developers decide to put there total property tax abated projects.

Give everyone a chance. Not just the wealthy.


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...r-wayne-county

[dtowncitylover]

At least the tossed bone for the exburbs is bigger, not just an afterthought and slightly less hypothetical

According to the newly proposed framework those of us that live and work in the "Hometown Services" region would be paying based on property values, but receive funding on a per capita basis. For that reason I'm still not sure I can support this proposal any more than the last one. Especially considering the vagueness of what "Hometown Services" would actually be. From the looks of it's just putting $100 in the mass transit pot, getting $25 back and somehow we're supposed to be happy with this arrangement.

What more do "you" want? There are park and rides and we are giving you community based transit options that would be chosen by you, the community.

I don't get it. Every resident of Oakland, Wayne, Macomb, and for all intents and purposes, Washtenaw, live in the metro Detroit REGION. When planning REGIONALLY, we all need to come together because WE WILL ALL BENEFIT. That's not up for debate. That's a fact. It cannot be disputed. You cannot dispute the fact that the major metro regions do well because they act regionally.

Even if the RTA wanted to put fixed routes down Beck, Dutton, or 32 Mile there would still be complaints because "no one would use it". So now that the RTA is proposing flexible, community based transit options that can be determined by the local population [[wow look, democracy!), you're still complaining.

Sorry, if you can afford $500,000 McMansions, you can afford higher taxes that will increase economic activity and make this region more attractive to businesses and visitors alike.

Also, here is the plan that Evans announced:
http://www.rtamichigan.org/wp-conten...8_03_13_v2.pdf

Right now, Michiganders are giving money to the federal government for transit, and getting barely any back but instead have given it to other major cities for their transit projects. Wouldn't you rather want to get those dollars back and invested in our communities?

[RaumVogel]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innov...ded-180968463/

[bust]

Next time roads are built or repaired out in the exurbs -- or utility companies invest to deliver water, power, cable, internet, or phone service out there -- everyone from Detroit and the closer-in suburbs should fight it until there is sufficiently enough "in it for me."

[Johnnny5]

What more do "you" want? There are park and rides and we are giving you community based transit options that would be chosen by you, the community.

When you're being asked to pay 10x as much and only receiving half as much as others you're not being "given" anything. Structure this plan so that individual communities will receive a reasonable and guaranteed percentage of these funds back to fund "Hometown Services" and I'll gladly vote yes.

[dtowncitylover]

When you're being asked to pay 10x as much and only receiving half as much as others you're not being "given" anything. Structure this plan so that individual communities will receive a reasonable and guaranteed percentage of these funds back to fund "Hometown Services" and I'll gladly vote yes.

So more bitching because God forbid your tax dollars help the region and not yourselves? Despite the fact that the law says 85% of funds must stay within each county, it's not enough for you. You want 85% of funds raised in each community to stay within each community. Yeah that makes sense. JFC.

[K-slice]

Just more buses that will get voted down. To get enough people to vote YES you need to give those who own cars something that they see as a viable alternative to driving. Streetcars or light rail gets you there, buses don't. Focus on what those who may CHOOSE to use the system want and what you come up with will also benefit those who NEED to use public transit.

[Johnnny5]

So more bitching because God forbid your tax dollars help the region and not yourselves? Despite the fact that the law says 85% of funds must stay within each county, it's not enough for you. You want 85% of funds raised in each community to stay within each community. Yeah that makes sense. JFC.

No, I'm simply asking that if this plan is going to be funded based on property values those of us living in areas far outside the areas to be serviced by mass transit should receive a reasonable amount of alternative services for our oversized contribution. You're asking myself and my neighbors to pay far more more and receive far less. While others in and around Detroit will pay hardly anything and receive the majority of the benefits. IMO that's just as selfish, but I'm not the one asking others to pay for it.

I would be interested in seeing some estimates from the RTA showing what individual communities will pay, and what they will receive back for the so called "Hometown Services". Perhaps my assumption that we're getting the short end of the deal is wrong, and if it is I would gladly change my plan to vote against it.

[Canadian Visitor]

No, I'm simply asking that if this plan is going to be funded based on property values those of us living in areas far outside the areas to be serviced by mass transit should receive a reasonable amount of alternative services for our oversized contribution. You're asking myself and my neighbors to pay far more more and receive far less. While others in and around Detroit will pay hardly anything and receive the majority of the benefits. IMO that's just as selfish, but I'm not the one asking others to pay for it.

I would be interested in seeing some estimates from the RTA showing what individual communities will pay, and what they will receive back for the so called "Hometown Services". Perhaps my assumption that we're getting the short end of the deal is wrong, and if it is I would gladly change my plan to vote against it.

Hmmm.

Reading what you wrote..........I hear

"Those poor people who can't afford to eat; while i sit here w/my huge spread of food that I can never finish are greedy; because they would like me to donate my table scraps for free, which i worked to pay for."

The nature of sharing in a common region, common state, common nation and common planet is that those who have reaped benefit from the place and have the wealth to show for it pay more; what they pay for is service where its needed/justified.

Do you get exactly your fair share of what your income tax pays for from the navy? Are there a sufficient number of naval jobs in Michigan?

Or do you put the ships where they are needed, and make people pay for them who can afford it?

I get that you would like some services. I bet you get state roads; paid for by people who live in different areas than you. I'd bet those roads/highways are more expensive per person to deliver in your area than many that are more populated.

Should everyone get the interstate to their front door?

Should only those who use it pay for it?

Your area should get some transit service; but its absurd to suggest you will get on-par service w/areas where uptake will be higher both out of need and practicality.

****

The City of Toronto's taxpayers subsidize highways, police, and healthcare to rural areas.

We provide highways paid for the City that are 80% used by suburbanites.

We do because it works out for us; and because suburbanites subsidize social services delivered mainly in the City.

Sharing.

We've covered this in the past, but I'll say it again, Detroit's future prosperity is based on consolidation of the myriad governments in the Detroit CMA.

Far fewer local governments and one regional government.

I will wait for the 'can't happen here' chorus and be on my way, LOL

[Johnnny5]

Hmmm.

Reading what you wrote..........I hear

"Those poor people who can't afford to eat; while i sit here w/my huge spread of food that I can never finish are greedy; because they would like me to donate my table scraps for free, which i worked to pay for."

You're "hearing" what you want to hear, not what I wrote.

[Canadian Visitor]

You're "hearing" what you want to hear, not what I wrote.

If what I wrote is unfair or unduly harsh, I'll do the Canadian thing, and apologize.

But I will say, that I have no skin in this game; and no reason to 'hear' anything, that isn't there.

It really did sound like "I wont' pay for anything for anyone else unless I get mine too"

If everyone takes that route, no one gets anything.

[masterblaster]

Just more buses that will get voted down. To get enough people to vote YES you need to give those who own cars something that they see as a viable alternative to driving. Streetcars or light rail gets you there, buses don't. Focus on what those who may CHOOSE to use the system want and what you come up with will also benefit those who NEED to use public transit.

I agree. $5.4 million for more buses and one commuter rail that only does 4 trips in the morning and and 4 in the afternoon is not going to cut it. Although I applaud Mr. Evans proposal to provide buses every 15 minutes on major corridors, I just don't think that there will ever be enough demand to have that level of service on roads like Telegraph and Hall Road.

I propose this:

***CHANGE THE MICHIGAN CONSTITUTION TO ALLOW COUNTIES AND CITIES TO LEVY THEIR OWN SALES TAX**** No more paying for transit with property taxes. With sales tax, we can get people who are visiting the counties or just going through the counties to pay for transit and homeowners won't feel that they are being burdened.

****Consolidate SMART, DDOT, PeopleMover and QLine into one organization called the RTA*************** No more separate entities

Using existing rail infrastructure as much as possible to develop:

- 1 commuter rail line from Macomb County to New Center

- 1 commuter rail line from Pontiac to New Center

- 1 commuter rail line roughly along I-96 that would serve Western Wayne County and Western Oakland County. This line would also stop at New Center

-1 commuter rail line from Ann Arbor to New Center

-All of these lines would funnel people to the QLine. The QLine will be altered to make it faster - only have stops at the New Center Amtrak Station, Warren Ave, Mack, I-75ish, Campus Martius and East Jefferson - 6 stations not 13. Give the trains signal priority and increase the fines 5 fold for parking in the train lane

***Establish BRT/BRT lite along all spoke roads and ending in INNER RING suburbs [[these should be no longer than 20 miles and run at 20-30 minute intervals depending on the time of day)

1. Fort Street [[and Eureka) from Downtown to downtown Wyandotte [[14 miles)

2. Michigan Avenue, from Downtown to Downtown West Dearborn - 11 miles or to Middlebelt/Merriman [[for the shuttle to the airport) - 15-16 miles

3. Woodward, downtown to Downtown Birmingham - 18 miles

4. East Jefferson - downtown to Grosse Point Park Cabbage Patch commercial district - 7 Miles

5. Gratiot - downtown to downtown Mount Clemens - 20 miles

6. Grand River - downtown to downtown Farmington - 24 miles, but using the little used M-5 freeway for part of the trip to make it faster.

****Transit service to/from Airport - take from the RTA's 2016 plan. In addition, the AA-Detroit commuter rail should have a stop at Middlebelt or Merriman where a shuttle bus would be waiting.

-30 minute service on all major suburban roadways from 5 am to 7 pm, and 45 minute to 1 hour from 7 pm to 10 or 12 am - 12 Mile Road, Hall Road, Telegraph, Van Dyke, John R, etc.

-Service on all major suburban roadways everyday [[Routes like Dequindre and Telegraph do not run on Sundays currently)

***Use the RTA's 2016 plans to connect Canton/Plymouth to Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti

*** Incorporate Ride-sharing and Van-pool services into the transit options

-Phoenix's transit authority provides vans for van-pools for qualifying groups of 6-15 people
https://www.valleymetro.org/vanpool

-Using Uber or Uber's car pooling service to get you from your home to a rapid transit stop or park & ride stop

[Jason]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ager/33946831/

Detroit — The Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan has appointed Matt Webb, a former QLine streetcar program manager, as its new COO.The organization remained without a full-time CEO after the position was vacated in March 2017.

[mtburb]

Here's a fantasy map that I just finished. This builds on the "15 Routes" plan from the RTA's new "Connect Southeast Michigan" plan.



If you have any questions about this map, feel free to reply. You may want to right-click the map and select "view image" to see the smaller details.

[brizee]

The legislature is currently trying to make RTA opt out.

Brooks Patterson continues to be a cunt. Killing the RTA out of spite.

"We are tired of being donor communities," said Hackel, when reached by telephone. "The priorities are roads and talent attraction. That's my RTA."
An official with the RTA was intrigued to learn that Patterson will not be seeking re-election, sensing a strategy that could be hatched to take advantage of the fact that the lame-duck executive is denying his people a right to vote [[Oakland County narrowly rejected the first transit plan in 2016) while he plans to sip mint juleps on his porch, while readjusting the transit plan to throw some road repair money Macomb County's way.
"They don't understand Brooks Patterson," said Brooks Patterson. "The more you challenge him, the deeper I dig my heals in. I swear to God that's what's going to happen. They're not going to win this fight. My vote is No."

[EGrant]

While he did some things to make Oakland County prosper in the short term years ago, I don't think history will be very kind to L. Brooks.

[stasu1213]

Oakland County had sucked up all the big box stores over the past 50 years but now these stores and malls are closing. The millennials of Oakland County are moving to Detroit as techies working for Quicken Loans, Bedrock, or Microsoft; They are also the hipsters hanging out at Snob coffee shops living in lofts or small apartments in downtown/midtown Detroit. Brookes Patterson and Hackel are just old relics trying to keep the suburbia dream of the 1950s alive

[archfan]

Oakland County had sucked up all the big box stores over the past 50 years but now these stores and malls are closing. The millennials of Oakland County are moving to Detroit as techies working for Quicken Loans, Bedrock, or Microsoft; They are also the hipsters hanging out at Snob coffee shops living in lofts or small apartments in downtown/midtown Detroit. Brookes Patterson and Hackel are just old relics trying to keep the suburbia dream of the 1950s alive

I don't disagree that the attitudes of Patterson and Hackel are outdated. But realistically, we will not see everyone under 30 from Oakland and Macomb counties moving to Detroit, nor will we see all the stores closing.

We've got to recognize that there are people who are suited to the city, and people suited to the suburbs [[maybe even at different times of their lives), and figure out how to work together. Or, reconcile ourselves to the same divisiveness that we've seen for the last fifty years.

[professorscott]

I don't disagree that the attitudes of Patterson and Hackel are outdated... We've got to recognize that there are people who are suited to the city, and people suited to the suburbs [[maybe even at different times of their lives), and figure out how to work together. Or, reconcile ourselves to the same divisiveness that we've seen for the last fifty years.

Hackel and Patterson seem to have come down hard on the side of "the same divisiveness". Maybe what needs to happen is that those two need to be put out to pasture.

[Colombian Dan]

Not sure Americans are ready to give up their private cars to join public transportation...aka Mass Transit.... This is the one luxury Henry Ford gave to the ordinary working schmucks of America. If your idea of a better, more dense, bike to work/walk to work lifestyle should be adopted throughout the USA, please visit Bogota Colombia where I now live. Specifically I live in Barrio Bosa, a neighborhood just slightly smaller than the city of Dearborn but has a population of over 650,000 people. Detached houses do not exist here unless you live in the country. 99% of people live in Soviet style apartments or older row style apartments. Even the wealthy in Los Rosales live in Condos or apartments. Private ownership of cars is clearly not the majority here but people strive to earn enough money to buy one. The "American dream" to most Colombians is owning a single family detached house with 2 cars. Public transportation is not something they enjoy.....

[bust]

There is no shortage of difference of opinion. But I'd argue the trend is for more people to value the amenities of a well-functioning city. I'm not sure you'd describe Bogota as an example of one. And the trend is not just among young people. They may not be the majority, but plenty of older people would love to live in a walkable city with efficient transit and other ameneties where they can enjoy their golden years more independently too. Even many of my elderly relatives in Detroit wanted that. They did the best they could to find it there.

[Bham1982]

Oakland County had sucked up all the big box stores over the past 50 years but now these stores and malls are closing. The millennials of Oakland County are moving to Detroit as techies working for Quicken Loans, Bedrock, or Microsoft; They are also the hipsters hanging out at Snob coffee shops living in lofts or small apartments in downtown/midtown Detroit. Brookes Patterson and Hackel are just old relics trying to keep the suburbia dream of the 1950s alive

Just to be clear, there isn't a scintilla of actual data supporting any of this.

Detroit continues to lose population and get poorer, Oakland County continues to gain population and get richer, Oakland retail expands while Detroit retail contracts, etc. etc.

There's probably more housing and retail built in the last two years in Oakland County than in the last 50 years in Detroit.

The only part you got right is "Patterson and Hackel are old relics".

[dtowncitylover]

...There's probably more housing and retail built in the last two years in Oakland County than in the last 50 years in Detroit...

Where's all this OC retail being built?

[Colombian Dan]

Just to be clear, there isn't a scintilla of actual data supporting any of this.

Detroit continues to lose population and get poorer, Oakland County continues to gain population and get richer, Oakland retail expands while Detroit retail contracts, etc. etc.

There's probably more housing and retail built in the last two years in Oakland County than in the last 50 years in Detroit.

The only part you got right is "Patterson and Hackel are old relics".

Not exactly the case for Oakland county.. Once America's 4th wealthiest county.. now Oakland county doesn't even make the top 50 in the USA.. great job L Brooks.. that giant sucking sound is money leaving Oakland county in droves.....

[Bham1982]

Not exactly the case for Oakland county.. Once America's 4th wealthiest county.. now Oakland county doesn't even make the top 50 in the USA.. great job L Brooks.. that giant sucking sound is money leaving Oakland county in droves.....

Oakland was never the 4th wealthiest U.S. county, ever. There's far more wealth being created in Oakland than anywhere else in MI, so I'm not sure of your point.

And this "conversation" is pretty clear evidence that Detroit boosters are about as fact averse and stuck-in-the-past as Ole Brooks and the exurban redneck brigade. If you were really for "regionalism" you wouldn't be attacking the region's economic engine and promoting fantasy.