Another Perspective on Dan Gilbert

**NoHeartAnthony** · December-25-13, 07:28 PM

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20...r-henry-potter

For Gilbert - like many of his uber-rich brethren - his own prodigious fortune is proof that Detroit's only hope lies in following the same economic blueprint that guided his own rise to power. As with many self-anointed prophets come to lead the faithful out of poverty and darkness, one must drink the Kool-Aid to share the vision. But his formula for the city's rejuvenation amounts to the same cocktail of cheap land, low taxes and entrepreneurial moonshine that intoxicated Detroit for decades. Always, the binge has resulted in an impressive payday for the wealthy - those who need it least - and an endless hangover of poverty and desperation for the majority of the city's residents.

Of all the players promising to lead Detroit out of its doldrums, realty, mortgage and lending entities like Quicken should be the most suspect. Historically, Detroit's real estate and loan industries have played a crucial role for many decades in its institutionalized racism and segregation by offering moral and logistical support to blatantly racist "home improvement associations" and redlining practices. These did much to balkanize the city's populace into white and black enclaves, and little was done to stop them until the federal government intervened in 1958 with questionable results. These real-estate agents and lenders may or may not have been personally invested in the racism and segregation they enabled, but they certainly profited from the property values they helped to keep inflated with the fear and paranoia they engendered. Follow the money.

Why is Quicken's workplace important? Because it speaks to the deterioration of work, the American workplace, and the erosion of the middle class - a phenomenon that runs, not coincidentally, parallel with the demise of manufacturing and the union movement and the ascendance of the service and financial sectors as the dominant players in the US economy since the Reagan era. It is important because neither Detroit nor the country has any hope without a workforce that's economically secure and empowered.

Is this guy really our savior?

**rb336** · December-25-13, 08:42 PM

Jamiel totally went off the deep end:

Of all the players promising to lead Detroit out of its doldrums, realty, mortgage and lending entities like Quicken should be the most suspect. Historically, Detroit's real estate and loan industries have played a crucial role for many decades in its institutionalized racism and segregation by offering moral and logistical support to blatantly racist "home improvement associations" and redlining practices.

This is patently absurd, painting Gilbert with the same brush as the people responsible for that crap that happened years before he was born. Just what we need, some know-nothing from Portland spewing stupidity

**mwilbert** · December-25-13, 09:10 PM

First, rb336 is right; there isn't any legitimate connection between Gilbert and the practices described in that paragraph. Nor is Quicken Loans responsible for the erosion of the American middle class. I have heard that people there are worked pretty hard [[and paid pretty well) but the company was named the 13th best company to work for in 2013 by Fortune, down from 10th in 2012. I doubt it is a complete hellhole.

Second, it isn't illegitimate for Gilbert to try to get the best deal possible from the city. I don't like all his ideas; I certainly didn't like his desire for a curb-running M1 with too many stops. But I give him credit for actually doing things, and not just mothballing his properties until something magically improves in the future. We can only hope that more people follow his example.

**Cliffy** · December-25-13, 09:34 PM

If you look at job reviews at Quicken Loans, they aren't that great. Long hours, lots of pressure to work 6 days a week 12 hours a day. The turnover rate is pretty high too. Just because he has a slurpee machine and offers pizza doesn't mean its a "best company" to work for. Lot of young people get fooled by petty perks.

**DetroitPlanner** · December-25-13, 09:37 PM

Wow a mortgage banker who has questionable ethics. Shocking.

**professorscott** · December-25-13, 11:13 PM

I don't expect anyone to have been Mother Teresa except Mother Teresa, and I don't expect anybody to be the Pope except the Pope. Mr. Gilbert is a businessman, and has had a hand in a variety of businesses. He is relevant to this board because of his remarkable investment in downtown Detroit, and I believe Detroit including Mr. Gilbert will have a stronger future than a Detroit without Mr. Gilbert.

I would be concerned if his businesses were illegal or were run with shocking disregard for his workers, but that does not seem to be the place, not even close. Some of the businesses he is and has been in are notorious in general for such things as pressure, long hours and high turnover, yet his most well-known business seems to have admirably survived the housing market collapse of the end of the last decade and thrived since.

Overall I think his optimism and belief in Detroit's future are one of the catalysts driving the renewed faith in the downtown-midtown strip, and I'm glad he's here.

**Scottathew** · December-25-13, 11:39 PM

He buys struggling skyscrapers, renovates them, and then fills them with jobs, in one of the most troubled urban areas in the country.

I'm not exactly seeing the problem.

You don't like the mortgage business? You want someone to save Detroit but you're being picky about what kind of industry it is?

Well, the auto industry over-saturation didn't work out for us. The autos are an important part of our recovery, but they're also an important part of what got us here in the first place.

Gilbert has pledged to march into the neighborhoods and tear down the problem structures. He hasn't let us down yet.

Gilbert is the reason why we even get to argue over points of implementation of a rail project on Woodward, not just dream about whether or not something like it could ever happen.

He's a businessman with a vision, a vision where he makes a lot of money, employs a lot of people, and changes a city.

I hope that decades from now he's able to look back and see his legacy and impact on this city, hopefully one so substantial that he'll have a place in history as the catalyst of the Detroit comeback.

**Novine** · December-26-13, 10:04 AM

In a world of Morouns and Ilitches, Gilbert's going to come off as a saint.

**detroitpride313** · December-26-13, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by 48307

He buys struggling skyscrapers, renovates them, and then fills them with jobs, in one of the most troubled urban areas in the country.

I'm not exactly seeing the problem.

You don't like the mortgage business? You want someone to save Detroit but you're being picky about what kind of industry it is?

Well, the auto industry over-saturation didn't work out for us. The autos are an important part of our recovery, but they're also an important part of what got us here in the first place.

Gilbert has pledged to march into the neighborhoods and tear down the problem structures. He hasn't let us down yet.

Gilbert is the reason why we even get to argue over points of implementation of a rail project on Woodward, not just dream about whether or not something like it could ever happen.

He's a businessman with a vision, a vision where he makes a lot of money, employs a lot of people, and changes a city.

I hope that decades from now he's able to look back and see his legacy and impact on this city, hopefully one so substantial that he'll have a place in history as the catalyst of the Detroit comeback.

I agree with you 100%. He's renovating the structures he buys and furthermore he is also involved in the community with the large amount of community service his workers do and his plan to tear down all abandoned buildings in the city of Detroit. At the end of the day I'd rather have someone doing something than having nobody doing anything. Some people just like to complain...but then again I'm not gonna let an article from some guy in Portland upset me....I do, however, get tired of all these people from different cities commenting on Detroit from the outside when half of the time they don't even know the whole situation...

**canuck** · December-26-13, 12:23 PM

Gilbert stands out because of the scale of his investments in downtown, yes; but also because he seems to be pointing the way for other big players to do so.

I would like to know if his mortgage lending companies have been as sharklike in their practices as the other lenders in the market. Barring this, I think the guy is working extra time on Detroit's business center's problems the best way he can with what he has to contend with.

Detroit needs a lot of saviors big and small everyday but this guy definitely needs support in the business leaders circle, from in and out ofthe metro region. His confidence can only inspire.

**Detroitnerd** · December-26-13, 12:26 PM

If I were to begin buying properties in Troy, all while demanding that I not pay taxes on them for 10 or 15 years, would I be a hero?

**Cliffy** · December-26-13, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

If I were to begin buying properties in Troy, all while demanding that I not pay taxes on them for 10 or 15 years, would I be a hero?

Probably for the tea party people.

**rb336** · December-26-13, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

If I were to begin buying properties in Troy, all while demanding that I not pay taxes on them for 10 or 15 years, would I be a hero?

how many tax dollars are Gilbert's employees pumping in to city coffers? How much tax money would the city have gotten on those properties if they hadn't been rehabbed? Is Gilbert's development a net gain or loss for the city? Please answer those questions

**Detroitnerd** · December-26-13, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

how many tax dollars are Gilbert's employees pumping in to city coffers? How much tax money would the city have gotten on those properties if they hadn't been rehabbed? Is Gilbert's development a net gain or loss for the city? Please answer those questions

Hey, if he's not paying taxes, it represents a theft from some of the poorest people in the country to one of the richest. In short, the same damn thing we've been doing for the last 40 years. So look back on the last 40 years and you will see what it has wrought. This ain't rocket surgery.

**rb336** · December-26-13, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Hey, if he's not paying taxes, it represents a theft from some of the poorest people in the country to one of the richest. In short, the same damn thing we've been doing for the last 40 years. So look back on the last 40 years and you will see what it has wrought. This ain't rocket surgery.

answer my questions with fact instead of not answering them but throwing out more hyperbole

**Bham1982** · December-26-13, 01:34 PM

Gilbert seems like a net plus for Detroit city proper, but he's a businessman, not a savior.

The "new jobs" are BS; they're relocated jobs from Livonia, and the move was subsidized with local and state tax dollars. There's no net gain here; it's just warring local factions.

**401don** · December-26-13, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Gilbert seems like a net plus for Detroit city proper, but he's a businessman, not a savior.

The "new jobs" are BS; they're relocated jobs from Livonia, and the move was subsidized with local and state tax dollars. There's no net gain here; it's just warring local factions.

His companies, along with the tech companies he has helped to establish by providing low rent, shared resources, etc. appear to be growing so there definitely is a net gain.

**Detroitnerd** · December-26-13, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

answer my questions with fact instead of not answering them but throwing out more hyperbole

What happened to austerity? Oh, right, I forgot. When you're a billionaire, the broke-ass City of Detroit is always Father Christmas. Want to buy buildings? No problem! You'll never have to pay taxes again! Even when we go bankrupt! Just go ahead an move in, Master Gilbert! We're sure whatever jobs you shuffle from one part of the region to another will make up at least some of the money you don't have to pay to locate there. And our generous city residents will make up the difference.

In the meanwhile, maybe Santa can send some for-hire economist to make up theories about how making sure Gilbert doesn't have to pay property taxes means that our economy will take off, and we'll all be rich?

**Bham1982** · December-26-13, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

His companies, along with the tech companies he has helped to establish by providing low rent, shared resources, etc. appear to be growing so there definitely is a net gain.

How is there a net gain? Are you saying that Quicken is adding jobs because they relocated from Livonia?

Wouldn't the new jobs be due to the recovery of the national housing market, lowest interest rates ever, and fantastic environment for refinancing?

**Hypestyles** · December-26-13, 02:44 PM

It may likely be “impossible”,but I hope that if Mr. Gilbert is serious about this blight removal initiative, that he will be willing to pool money [[and convince his rich colleagues to do the same)so that people [[especially men) who live in the communities affected by blight can be put to work on the demolition/debris-hauling crews that would come into play. For whatever it’s worth, Gilbert’s white-collar enterprises require you to have a Bachelor/Master’s degree, andfor a wide swath of urban Detroiters, that puts them out of the loop when itcomes to the “cool jobs available” via the Quicken Empire [[and whoever else follows suit downtown, e.g. Blue Cross, etc.)

**401don** · December-26-13, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

How is there a net gain? Are you saying that Quicken is adding jobs because they relocated from Livonia?

Wouldn't the new jobs be due to the recovery of the national housing market, lowest interest rates ever, and fantastic environment for refinancing?

Quicken Loans market share of national mortgage lending has risen dramatically the past couple of years.

**Bham1982** · December-26-13, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

Quicken Loans market share of national mortgage lending has risen dramatically the past couple of years.

How does this support your claim of a net gain in jobs?

**rb336** · December-26-13, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

How does this support your claim of a net gain in jobs?

When QL moved to Detroit, it had around 1500 employees in the metro area. They moved to Detroit. QL currently employs 7-8000 people downtown [[depending on whose estimate you use). How is that NOT a net gain in jobs?

**gnome** · December-26-13, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

What happened to austerity? Oh, right, I forgot. When you're a billionaire, the broke-ass City of Detroit is always Father Christmas. Want to buy buildings? No problem! You'll never have to pay taxes again! Even when we go bankrupt! Just go ahead an move in, Master Gilbert! We're sure whatever jobs you shuffle from one part of the region to another will make up at least some of the money you don't have to pay to locate there. And our generous city residents will make up the difference.

In the meanwhile, maybe Santa can send some for-hire economist to make up theories about how making sure Gilbert doesn't have to pay property taxes means that our economy will take off, and we'll all be rich?

aren't you the guy who works for a suburban company? a company that makes a large part of its revenue off the exploitation of women and young gay men? A firm with one of the poorest workplace retention rates? Aren't you in the management of that firm?

Now, I'm sure there are all sorts of good reasons to promote businesses that exploit women, I can't think of any right now, but I have to believe there must be some hungry single mothers who can't wait to launch their pole dancing careers, and they must thank you every evening for that opportunity. So I can understand how you feel you have the right, if not the responsibility, to take Mr. Gilbert to task for bringing his firms to the city.

I would even bet he would thank you himself for providing such a stellar example.

**Detroitnerd** · December-26-13, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

aren't you the guy who works for a suburban company? a company that makes a large part of its revenue off the exploitation of women and young gay men? A firm with one of the poorest workplace retention rates? Aren't you in the management of that firm?

Now, I'm sure there are all sorts of good reasons to promote businesses that exploit women, I can't think of any right now, but I have to believe there must be some hungry single mothers who can't wait to launch their pole dancing careers, and they must thank you every evening for that opportunity. So I can understand how you feel you have the right, if not the responsibility, to take Mr. Gilbert to task for bringing his firms to the city.

I would even bet he would thank you himself for providing such a stellar example.

Not only is that ad hominem, even if it weren't it wouldn't be relevant to the discussion. What? Am I supposed to choke on those words and feel the creeping fear of being "outed" on a message board? Am I supposed to cry, "Nooooo!" and spin around in my office chair until I vanish in a poof of pixie dust? My career has never been distinguished enough to throw on the betting pile, and it still isn't. You must rate me some eminence that I do not grant myself. That's generous, Gnome, but not at all called for.

Also, since you have to veer so far off course that you're in MY grill now and not discussing the wisdom of tax abatement as civic development policy, I'll presume my points are so rock-solid you had to resort to some new tack. Thanks for the implied compliment, buddy.