Rosa Parks Transit Center

[MIRepublic]

Trainman, is that you? You know, you really shouldn't be typing without a helmet.

[DetroitPlanner]

I've looked at that documentation as well.

However, have you ever been on a DDOT bus or have seen most of them? The city government has a history of misappropriating money. It would be no surprise if that money was misappropriated already.

If you go to the transit center today, the only buses that you would find that have bike racks on them would be Transit Windsor and SMART and maybe 1 DDOT bus.

I've been riding DDOT buses for over 40 years. I've been riding them since my parents called em DSR's and the suburban buses were known as SEMTA. You can't misappropriate federal funds. They go through an obligation and letting process. Maintenance is a different issue. This is a 2009 project. Its only halfway through 2009. Have some patience.

[Zacha341]

I'm temporarily in between cars and have been doing DDOT when not able to ride share with friends and family, etc. I was downtown yesterday am at the Rosa Parks Transit center waiting for an out going bus connection and noted how dirty the place is. Debris and trash all around the grounds.

Looks as though there's is no attempt of trash collection or anyone coming thru to pick up trash off the ground as you see in other areas of downtown.

I'd heard about the lavatory facilities and did'nt dare venture, but what's up with the trash? Even the areas of mulch and some remnants of flower plantings are trashed...

Anyone else been down there lately?

[animatedmartian]

I was down there a couple times around March. Yea it was trashy. It was also full of people. Both inside and out at the terminals and at the bus stops on the corners. It seemed like half of Detroiters didn't have any cars. The bathrooms weren't smelly and I didn't see any unflushed toilets [[or I might not have remembered if it really was that bad), but it was still really trashy. It's really sad too because it's actually a really nice looking building and the trashiness and crowds of people made it feel more like a homeless shelter rather than a bus terminal.

[cramerro]

My bus goes by there every day, and last week I found myself wondering, how hard would it be to plant a few more plants on the limited landscaped pockets. Being a fan of splitting and transplanting versus buying new perennials, I'm half tempted to show up with a few 5-gallon buckets and a shovel and plant some hosta, a few lillies, and some black-eyed susans. Honestly, they don't even need watering after they gain hold, I could go over there with a watering can once a week. Also, DDOT has their maintenance guys out there quite regularly, sweeping and picking up some trash... not enough though.

What about Clean Downtown getting permission to help out? They do a great job keeping all the streets down here clean! Truly a shame to see something like this lose its shimmer so quickly.

[Rocko]

Cramerro -

I took a spin around downtown on the People Mover this afternoon and sat on the "other side" of the car. I took a close look down at the Transit Center when we went by, and noticed the very things you bring up - limited landscaping, and lots of trash. And I too wondered if there would be a way to get Clean Downtown involved in this location, thereby sparing the DDOT maintenance crews and allowing them to work on true maintenance issues at the terminal, and elsewhere around the city [[like fixing shelters and replacing bus stop signs that get demolished by errant Uhaul trucks and the like).

The transit center certainly was a busy place when I passed by overhead, though!

[DetroitSoldier]

So this year marks 10 years since the Rosa Parks Transit Center opened. I read through this old thread and realize just how remarkable the turnaround has been downtown since then. The opening of the transit center was marked with great fanfare and optimism. I enjoyed using it back then.

Sadly, I think RPTC is not holding up too well right now. Quite simply...TURN ON THE LIGHTS!! I drive by there almost every night and it is one of the darkest areas of downtown. It looks virtually abandoned at times. The lights that are supposed to illuminate the tent-like canopies are only maybe 1/3 lit and the areas around the grounds are not much better.

With updates to Washington Blvd and Capital Park, there is no reason for a 10 year old transit center to be the ugliest part of that portion of downtown. Sadly though, that is the way it looks at this point.

I have called DDOT twice in the last week and nobody really seemed interested in taking down my complaint, so naturally I'm venting my frustrations on the internet like a true millennial.

[Zacha341]

^^^ No, I get it. You're right!!

It IS ridiculous how that center has deteriorated and what's up with the LIGHTS BEING OFF?

[Honky Tonk]

When the Center's open, turn on the lights, turn on the lights...

[poobert]

Can anyone say boondoggle? I feel like that thing was the last big splashy "do big weird shit downtown and hope something good comes out of it" a la monkey bars on Washington Boulevard, plastic lightpole coverings, awning on vacant buildings - oh wait, except for that pizza arena nobody goes to and that incredibly slow trolley.

[Zacha341]

Hah. I hear that! Could you elaborate on those 'plastic light pole' coverings?

[gnome]

Hah. I hear that! Could you elaborate on those 'plastic light pole' coverings?

I believe it is a reference to those two-piece plastic skirts that were/are installed on the base of light poles to deter scraping.

Marginally effective.

[Atticus]

Just like most “modern” architecture...

It looks cool and flashy when it opens... but then after being exposed to the elements it gets old and crappy. The cheap materials deteriorated. Now it looks bad... surprise surprise.

I would love if they required any architect who produces a package of those fancy architectural renderings to also include images for these two predictable situations...
1- How the thing would look in the dead of winter, as we have winter weather here 5 months of the year.
2- How the thing will look after being in the elements for 10 years with minimal maintenance... because things get old.

Maybe if we required all architects to submit those 2 images, better designs would get selected for structures in Detroit.

[DetroitSoldier]

I dont necessarily have an issue with the design. Transit terminals are supposed to be progressive and forward thinking because of what they represent. I actually did not mind the tent design because it was very open and airy. The design of the site is efficient and open compared to bus terminals in other cities which have constant flow issues.

However, I'm in the security industry and I will tell anyone who listens...LIGHTS=SECURITY. A transit hub, whether a train station, bus station or airport, should be one of the most well lit areas around. The infrastructure is in place for it...just turn on the damn lights. It will look better and people will be more comfortable using it.

[masterblaster]

Can anyone say boondoggle? I feel like that thing was the last big splashy "do big weird shit downtown and hope something good comes out of it" a la monkey bars on Washington Boulevard, plastic lightpole coverings, awning on vacant buildings - oh wait, except for that pizza arena nobody goes to and that incredibly slow trolley.

Sir/Ma'am, you are very, very hyperbolic and mostly very negative. Maybe attendance at Pistons games is quite low, but according to the below articles Little Caesars was the 3rd most attended arena in North America, and 6th in the world.

https://wwjnewsradio.radio.com/artic...-north-america

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/entert...ed-arena-world

Other transit centers in the country have been built with that white canopy structure stuff.

[poobert]

Sir/Ma'am, you are very, very hyperbolic and mostly very negative. Maybe attendance at Pistons games is quite low, but according to the below articles Little Caesars was the 3rd most attended arena in North America, and 6th in the world.

https://wwjnewsradio.radio.com/artic...-north-america

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/entert...ed-arena-world

Other transit centers in the country have been built with that white canopy structure stuff.

"...after the 1.5 million in attendance for Wings and Pistons games is subtracted."

So in your weird Illitch algorithm you have to subtract attendance in order to gain attendance?

So what I'm hearing is "we're almost well-attended if you subtract when we're not." C'mon!

Also, with the Rosa Parks Transit Center, I'm not falling for the "canopy stuff is all over" when the place is a cross between the flying nun and a prison camp. The last-resort Detroit argument has always been "But it is like that everywhere!" [[which is usually not true)

[Wheels]

Bring back the Lindell AC!

[dtowncitylover]

Wait, you're telling me a city that is located in a region that doesn't give a fuck about functional mass transit is letting their downtown transit center let itself go? I, for one, am shocked. SHOCKED, I say!

Whatever you think of the design of the project, it's not a "boondoggle" simply because of that. A downtown transit center is needed, like any major city and they wanted a dedicated building and lanes to do that. So they took it away from Capitol Park [[good) and built RPTC [[also good). But if you don't have continued investment and maintenance, it's going to look trashy and rundown [[bad).

[K-slice]

Lack of lighting has always been a "Detroit issue" but I think this runs deeper than that. Americans [[especially metro Detroiters over 40) scoff at spending any money on transit, as we all know, and a structure like this requires an extensive amount of upkeep to keep it from degrading.

This is an issue that boils down to money and what people want to spend their tax dollars on. if this was a hub used by a lot of downtown employees and visitors there would certainly be a call to keep the RPTC in great shape. However, reality is that the station is only used by those that have no other means of transportation and by loiterers and panhandlers.

Unfortunately short of a streetcar line down Michigan or BRT I don't see major investment being made in the RPTC any time soon.

[masterblaster]

"...after the 1.5 million in attendance for Wings and Pistons games is subtracted."

So in your weird Illitch algorithm you have to subtract attendance in order to gain attendance?

So what I'm hearing is "we're almost well-attended if you subtract when we're not." C'mon!

The Crain article states:

"Concert industry trade magazine Pollstar publishes an annual worldwide arena ranking based on ticketed events [[excluding pro sports team games)."

It is not a weird algorithm by the Ilitches

Also, with the Rosa Parks Transit Center, I'm not falling for the "canopy stuff is all over" when the place is a cross between the flying nun and a prison camp. The last-resort Detroit argument has always been "But it is like that everywhere!" [[which is usually not true)

Grand Rapid Central station has a similar white canopy design

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_Central_Station

Concerning the transit center,

-I would like to see the 2nd floor area turned into a coffee shop.

-the ability to buy transit tickets, monthly and weekly transit passes using a machine that actually works.

-provide a change machine that actually works

-please maintain the bathrooms to a 2nd-world level

-And please move the Greyhound Station there as well. There is a large adjacent triangular parking lot that can be used to add Greyhound.

[Atticus]

Lack of lighting has always been a "Detroit issue" but I think this runs deeper than that. Americans [[especially metro Detroiters over 40) scoff at spending any money on transit, as we all know, and a structure like this requires an extensive amount of upkeep to keep it from degrading.

This is an issue that boils down to money and what people want to spend their tax dollars on. if this was a hub used by a lot of downtown employees and visitors there would certainly be a call to keep the RPTC in great shape. However, reality is that the station is only used by those that have no other means of transportation and by loiterers and panhandlers.

Unfortunately short of a streetcar line down Michigan or BRT I don't see major investment being made in the RPTC any time soon.

This is a great post, and hits upon a lot of key concepts transit lovers and urban planners here can’t seem to grasp...

If middle and higher income folks don’t use it [[the transit), it won’t be maintained well. If it is not maintained well, it will then fall into disrepair, become unsafe, and even scare away some mid to lower income riders.

And let’s be honest, middle and higher income folks were never going to take the bus anyway. So it was destined to happen. The question then is... if you knew 10 years ago that once the center opened it would receive minimal at best maintenance... is the sweeping sail design still the best design for the bus station?

[dtowncitylover]

Got it, low income people don't deserve good lighting and modernist architecture designs. Let them all have Detroit Amtrak stations!

[preserve]

Light it up, clean it up, visible security, maybe even a crossing light over Michigan Ave. It's there, it is used, the Lindell AC is never coming back.

[stasu1213]

It is rumoured that Dan Gilbert had purchased the RPTC. This probably explain why the Woodward bus stops had been reinstalled on Woodward between Larned and Grand Circus Park. I had said much earlier on this thread that Detroit being a car town probably would not take care of the Transit Center and there are elements in this city that want to see it fail. Grand Rapids is more serious about their mass transit than Detroit is. Detroit will never be serious about it's transit system as long as you have those in office who are being controlled to sabatoge it

[313WX]

Can anyone say boondoggle? I feel like that thing was the last big splashy "do big weird shit downtown and hope something good comes out of it" a la monkey bars on Washington Boulevard, plastic lightpole coverings, awning on vacant buildings - oh wait, except for that pizza arena nobody goes to and that incredibly slow trolley.

I wouldn't go that far.

A real central point for all of the bus routes that terminate downtown was desperately needed.

RPTC meets that need. But like everything else run by the COD, the management of it is mediocre at best.