The End of Detroit... [Plan to widen I-94, I-75]

**Vic01** · December-09-13, 05:44 AM

Seeing that the freeways have been gettin' so much "hate" around here lately...

Regional group OKs $2.3B plan to widen I-94, I-75

Plans to add lanes to I-94 north of downtown Detroit and I-75

A consortium of southeastern Michigan governments has endorsed a $2.3 billion plan to widen two stretches of Interstates 75 and 94 serving Detroit and its suburbs.
The commission of the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments voted 24-7 Friday to proceed with plans to add lanes to I-94 north of downtown Detroit and I-75 in the city's northern suburbs.
Supporters say the work is needed to loosen traffic bottlenecks, while opponents say it would damage neighborhoods through which the highways travel.

Michigan Department of Transportation spokesman Rob Morosi tells MLive DOT com the earliest work would begin no sooner than 2016 on I-75 and 2018 on I-94.
I-94 would get extra lanes between Conner and I096, while I-75 would get them from Eight Mile Road to Michigan 59.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/r...c/-/index.html

**Bham1982** · December-09-13, 09:04 AM

Very good news for the region's mobility and economic health.

**rb336** · December-09-13, 09:27 AM

$2.3 billion won't cover it. Maybe one of the two, but not both. Below-grade sections on I-75 alone would cost more once you include land acquisition and bridges. Not including the cost of litigating the inevitable law suits.

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

$2.3 billion won't cover it. Maybe one of the two, but not both. Below-grade sections on I-75 alone would cost more once you include land acquisition and bridges. Not including the cost of litigating the inevitable law suits.

Just like they've had to replace all of the I-94 bridges in south Macomb County... these bridges need to be replaced anyway. And taking into account that MDOT is a pro at bridge replacement, I would tend to think that they have at least that portion of the cost estimates down pat. It's the land acquisition that is the big question mark...

**Sehv313** · December-09-13, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Vic01

I-75 would get them from Eight Mile Road to Michigan 59.

That's not in the city at all.

**professorscott** · December-09-13, 10:19 AM

God knows, our most pressing transportation need in the region is more lane-miles of expressway.

**Honky Tonk** · December-09-13, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

God knows, our most pressing transportation need in the region is more lane-miles of expressway.

Welcome to Reality-World, Prof......

**Sehv313** · December-09-13, 10:24 AM

I wonder whats gonna happen to all of this freeway space when we start driving flying hybrids like the Jetsons?

**Honky Tonk** · December-09-13, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Sehv313

I wonder whats gonna happen to all of this freeway space when we start driving flying hybrids like the Jetsons?

Rows and rows of coffee shops....

**ghettopalmetto** · December-09-13, 11:02 AM

This "plan" is patently absurd. It's based on studies that are more than 15 years old. Since then, we've seen a tripling in fuel prices and reductions in vehicle-miles of driving. The only thing that highway widening achieves is long-term increases in congestion, and fattened wallets of highway contractors.

No money for public transit, but billions available for outdated and unnecessary freeway widenings? Bien sur!

Propose renaming MDOT to the Michigan Department of Nostalgia.

**Wesley Mouch** · December-09-13, 11:07 AM

I'm really gonna miss those left-hand exits and merges.

**Danny** · December-09-13, 11:16 AM

The those nuts from MDOT want to expand I-94 and I-75 by moving away the low grade mound, put a concrete wall, add 2 new roads and let folks drive through this wall [[ not letting anyone to see the beauty of the Detroit ghettohoods) into the suburbs and out to Detroit. What fools they are.

**TKshreve** · December-09-13, 11:36 AM

Sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelet.

I-94 on said stretch has been congested for years upon years and remains that way today. You can put all the light rail you'd like up-and-down the east side, but suburbanites and trucking companies will continue to use this artery to get cross-town for any and all purposes. The outdated infrastructure is not only obsolete, but well past it's best-by date.

My only hangup is the 4 year delay on this part of the project.

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 11:40 AM

To anyone who travels I-94 or I-75 during rush hour, as opposed to looking at studies... you probably don't notice the difference in congestion between 15 years ago and today...

**Sehv313** · December-09-13, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

To anyone who travels I-94 or I-75 during rush hour, as opposed to looking at studies... you probably don't notice the difference in congestion between 15 years ago and today...

Rush hour in Detroit is simply just working people not knowing how to merge into traffic.

**bailey** · December-09-13, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

To anyone who travels I-94 or I-75 during rush hour, as opposed to looking at studies... you probably don't notice the difference in congestion between 15 years ago and today...

Yup. From the east side, 94 in the a.m is still a parking lot from about Moross/Vernier to I75 and in the outbound evenings it's stop and go all the way to 696. [[which is why I will use Jefferson). Its been like that for as long as I can remember.

What I have noticed coming from the eastside is a marked drop off in 696 congestion. I remember being in stop and go from like Groesbeck to I75. Now it doesn't seem to back up until at or after the Mound entrance/curve.

p.s... however, NOTHING in Detroit is anywhere close to what I've driven in elsewhere.

**rb336** · December-09-13, 12:06 PM

Numerous studies have shown that increasing capacity relieves congestion for only a few months.

I beat congestion by making my commute go the opposite of the prevailing rush-hour traffic

**ghettopalmetto** · December-09-13, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by TKshreve

Sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelet.

I-94 on said stretch has been congested for years upon years and remains that way today. You can put all the light rail you'd like up-and-down the east side, but suburbanites and trucking companies will continue to use this artery to get cross-town for any and all purposes. The outdated infrastructure is not only obsolete, but well past it's best-by date.

My only hangup is the 4 year delay on this part of the project.

The study completed by Corradino Group concluded that widening of I-75 would save A WHOLE MINUTE of travel time in the short term.

Are these Faberge eggs that MDOT is breaking?

Repair the bridges. Reconfigure interchanges where warranted by safety. But damn, is MDOT's expensive one-size-fits-all road-widening strategy even justified here? It doesn't take a genius to see that freeway-widening hasn't exactly "solved" congestion in places as diverse as Los Angeles, Houston, Atlanta, Toronto, and the DC area.

Of course, there's always the "trucking" argument, yet you still don't see 18-lane-wide freeways going through New York City, Chicago, Buffalo, or any other manufacturing and shipping hub. Michigan's biggest problem is that it doesn't dare look beyond its own borders to see that its ideas are already tried and tired. This is a case of Idiocy mixed with Nostalgia for the 1950s.

**RO_Resident** · December-09-13, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Of course, there's always the "trucking" argument, yet you still don't see 18-lane-wide freeways going through New York City, Chicago, Buffalo, or any other manufacturing and shipping hub. Michigan's biggest problem is that it doesn't dare look beyond its own borders to see that its ideas are already tried and tired. This is a case of Idiocy mixed with Nostalgia for the 1950s.

So the Dan Ryan by US Cellular Field is just a mirage?

**TKshreve** · December-09-13, 01:34 PM

GP - While there is a valid argument to be had in relation to other cities' outcomes from freeway expansion projects, you're trying to compare two unlike items - save Toronto. Detroit is in and of itself much different than any of the aforementioned cities you listed.

Our border is a major trade crossing. There are plans to increase the capacity of trade via this route with an additional bridge. Meanwhile, logistics companies are snatching up key plots of land that will act as tactical locations for warehousing and DC's. Freeway traffic will increase due to these events coming to fruition. The added lane-mileage will be a factor that needs addressing - and especially in areas with repetitive, cyclical congestion. I am specifically referring to I-94 along the proposed stretch.

Should jobs return to inner-Detroit as popular trends are indicating [[coupled with the birth or Gilbert-ville) you will see commuters relying on the freeway corridors even more and more. Let's be frank, suburbanites do not want to take Gratiot or Van Dyke into the city. Not until other items are addressed.

Perhaps if they coupled public trans. into the freeway projects [[like we see in Chicago) we could satisfy more than one palate. Maybe the footprint for such a project would be tolerable. But with the red tape and snails-pace legislation around here, holding ones breath is foolish at this point. Our city will be an automobile based region for many more years. It's economical, protectionist, accepted and just plain easier at this point.

And before you give me the "tough choices" song-and-dance about sacrifice and innovation, please remember that if we applied such theory to any one of the multitude of issues that need attention in Detroit, I'd be all aboard. Obviously talking about crime, vandalism, schooling and spending. But in the meantime if we're simply going for the quick fix.... do what's easiest for everyone because it will actually GET DONE; then this is the correct course of action.

**ghettopalmetto** · December-09-13, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by RO_Resident

So the Dan Ryan by US Cellular Field is just a mirage?

The Dan Ryan is up to fourteen lanes wide [[vis-a-vis the eighteen lanes, including service drives, proposed for I-94 through Detroit). If you've driven the Dan Ryan, however, you know damn well that fourteen lanes hasn't "solved" congestion on the South Side, just like the Chrysler Freeway didn't "solve" congestion in Detroit like its planners thought it would. So using that argument to justify the I-94 project is bunk, wouldn't you think?

**ghettopalmetto** · December-09-13, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by TKshreve

GP - While there is a valid argument to be had in relation to other cities' outcomes from freeway expansion projects, you're trying to compare two unlike items - save Toronto. Detroit is in and of itself much different than any of the aforementioned cities you listed.

Yeah yeah yeah, move the goalposts, "Detroit is unique". Bullshit.

Where's the 18-lane freeway through Buffalo? Where's the 18-lane freeway through Seattle? Sault Ste. Marie? Port Huron? San Diego?

The empirical [[read: ACTUAL AND MEASURABLE) evidence shows that adding lane-miles INCREASES congestion in the long-term. So why you would want to spend $2.3 billion to INCREASE congestion on a "major international trade" route is beyond me.

The only way Detroit is unique is that it's oblivious to the outside world. And if you think $2.3 billion is a "quick fix", then you should be committed to an asylum along with MDOT.

**TKshreve** · December-09-13, 01:52 PM

And your solution for alleviating the congestion that is prevalent along this stretch of freeway? Trolleys and rickshaws?

**ghettopalmetto** · December-09-13, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by TKshreve

And your solution for alleviating the congestion that is prevalent along this stretch of freeway? Trolleys and rickshaws?

Nothing. Not a damned thing. You sit in your car going just a little bit slower than 90 God damned miles an hour for a short stretch through Midtown Detroit.

That segment barely qualifies as "congested".

If I'm not mistaken, the $2.3 billion figure was for the I-94 project alone. The I-75 project would be another $1.3 billion, yes?

Here are other things you can get for $3.6 billion:

-Restore $7 million in DDOT cuts: for the next 500 years
-Construct 90 miles of light rail
-Construct over one thousand miles of commuter/regional rail
-Build five Mike Ilitchlands

I'm failing to see the upside of this freeway widening project. It's expensive as all hell, and it's going to save the average driver what--a whole minute of time, at most? Never mind that it's going to carve a nice, wide swath through Midtown and eliminate 14 bridges that currently connect neighborhoods on either side of the existing freeway.

This widening plan is stupid, to put it quite kindly.