RIP Mr. Mandela

**Detroit Stylin** · December-05-13, 04:54 PM

http://www.businessinsider.com/nelso...nt-dies-2013-6

**sumas** · December-06-13, 06:03 AM

We have lost a great "Peace Warrior". I mourn.

**Papasito** · December-06-13, 01:56 PM

NELSON MANDELA

So I didn't know much about this guy. I only knew what the media said he was a great uniter and a respected statesman. I knew the media said he was for peace and non violence. So I decided to look into his life. Wow, This guy is nothing like what the media force feeds the masses.

This may offend the uneducated or the people who swallow what the media feeds them. And by no means do I think the status quo of racial divide ever was, is or ever will be justified in South Africa or anywhere in this world for that matter.
But learning about a man's life is the first thing one should do before dubbing them a patron saint. This was a violent extremist man who was tied to terror and communists.

Facts:

HE AND HIS WIFE WOULD PUT TIRES AROUND THEIR ENEMIES FILLED WITH GASOLINE AND LIGHT THEM ON FIRE. Term called "necklacing".

"In South Africa during the 1960's and 70's, barely a week went by without terrorism -- dynamite at a fuel depot, a car bomb outside Air Force headquarters in in a city center. The ANC's guerrilla force -- known simply as MK, or more formally as Umkhonto we Sizwe translated "Spear of the Nation" was founded in 1961 by Nelson Mandela and his handler, the Communist Jew Joe Slovo."
---
""Notable among these attacks were the January 8, 1982 attack on the Koeberg nuclear power plant near Cape Town, the Church Street bombing on May 20, 1983, killing 19, and the June 14 1986 car-bombing of Magoo's Bar in Durban, in which 3 people were killed and 73 injured.""

http://www.henrymakow.com/when_do_te...t_nobel_p.html
http://www.practicalpedal.com/photog...ing-Tires.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/a...atch_list.html
http://wesmantoddshaw.hubpages.com/h...Murderous-Diva
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/i....asp?indid=759
http://ajmacdonaldjr.wordpress.com/2...-and-the-myth/

Why doesn't the media call people as they truly are or were?
If someone is a murdering terrorist killer and later in life turns to a better person, they should be remembered for the good AND the bad.

Personally, I don't think anyone who can put a tire around someone, douse it with gasoline and set it on fire can be re-evaluated later in life and be called a father of Peace, and deserve a Nobel Peace Prize, but hell, they're giving those prices to anyone these days.

"Judge a man by the content of his character not by the color of his skin"
~ Martin Luther King Jr

" he co-founded the militant Umkhonto we Sizwe [[MK) in 1961 in association with the South African Communist Party, leading a sabotage campaign against the apartheid government. In 1962 he was arrested"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela

**rb336** · December-06-13, 08:57 PM

FACT Nelson Mandela never did any such thing. His wife, when he was arrested, never did any such thing. She did make an ill-advised statement that some claimed was an endorsement of it, and your ilk should be fine with that, as you seem to raise a stink anytime anyone call the right-wing teabagger thugs out for suggesting acts of violence against our elected officials.

The vast majority of what you are reporting has been proven as false propaganda spread by the SA government and its US supporters

**Jimaz** · December-06-13, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

FACT Nelson Mandela never did any such thing. His wife, when he was arrested, never did any such thing. She did make an ill-advised statement that some claimed was an endorsement of it, and your ilk should be fine with that, as you seem to raise a stink anytime anyone call the right-wing teabagger thugs out for suggesting acts of violence against our elected officials.

The vast majority of what you are reporting has been proven as false propaganda spread by the SA government and its US supporters

Thanks for not quoting the post. Better to leave it thoroughly buried in the ignored list.

**coracle** · December-09-13, 07:34 AM

http://lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=763899
What an inteligent non-use of public funds. He's not going to join the expected 15,000 predominantly fawning lefties and the few dummy pretenders. Wonder how much this boondoggle is costing us? [[could have been spent on Detroit or we needn't have borrowed it in the first place)

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

http://lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=763899
What an inteligent non-use of public funds. He's not going to join the expected 15,000 predominantly fawning lefties and the few dummy pretenders. Wonder how much this boondoggle is costing us? [[could have been spent on Detroit or we needn't have borrowed it in the first place)

So you're using a right wing BLOG as a "credible" news source... Is it really easier if your mind is already made up by other blogs, rather than to listen to news reports and make an educated decision? No wait... you already answered that question...

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 09:20 AM

PAPASITO... if you're going to quote blogs instead of credible news sources... then at least quote blogs that use punctuation and capitalization. You quoted Philly.com as a valid news source... WTF?? You might as well have quoted DYES as a "valid" news source... no wait... then your posts might be taken as gospel by the less informed... never mind...

**rb336** · December-09-13, 09:29 AM

This is just typical of that particular group of haters

**oladub** · December-09-13, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So you're using a right wing BLOG as a "credible" news source... Is it really easier if your mind is already made up by other blogs, rather than to listen to news reports and make an educated decision? No wait... you already answered that question...

I went to to an original source-
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.562435
It turns out that coracle's source was credible, at least more credible than attacking the messenger without disproving that messenger.

From Haaratz, and I could provide other Israeli sources if Haaratz isn't up to some arbitrary standard. I also found the same article on DU and The Nation.-

"The decision was made in light of the high transportation costs resulting from the short notice of the trip and the security required for the prime minister in Johannesburg. The Prime Minister’s Office found that the trip would have cost roughly 7 million shekels [[$1.9 million) – of which 2.8 million shekels [[about $800,000) for chartering a private El Al plane and another 3.2 million shekels [[about $910,000) for transporting security equipment and personnel on an Israeli Air Force plane, in addition to other costs."

I'm not condoning or disparaging Netanyahu's decision. I'm fine with President Obama going. It is expected of him and it will neutralize him for at least a few days. Mr. Mandela was indeed a good man worthy of respect in his latter years.

**coracle** · December-09-13, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

So you're using a right wing BLOG as a "credible" news source... Is it really easier if your mind is already made up by other blogs, rather than to listen to news reports and make an educated decision? No wait... you already answered that question...

And you are using your own incredible left wing bull shit beliefs to condone the Public spending on our contingent consisting of 3 Presidents/wives and 26 congressmen not to mention their families and staff - so I won't mention them. People of your political group should be made to pay for it out of your own pockets.
[[Of course if my right wing BLOG is wrong Netanyahu will be there.)

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 11:25 AM

Sorry, but I don't read blogs to get my information. Remember this doozie from 3 years ago?? The "$2 billion dollar" trip to India?? Glen Beck, Michele Bachmann, and Sean Hannity all went ballistic with comments about a $200 million per day trip to India and other Asian countries... including a fleet of 34 warships....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...ticle-1.453359

You do remember that, don't you?

Even Glen Beck had to back pedal on that one... although he did so virtually unnoticed, by later adding "I don't know" to many of his outrageous blog comments...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/11...trip-to-india/

So when some bloggers go ape-shit over another overseas presidential trip... I often wonder what the REAL cost is to these... and not base it on some people with a "slight" bias against opposing political persuasions. Don't depend on blogs to base your arguments upon, they're not always credible, and you don't come off smelling like a rose either... especially when you start throwing out the "L" grenades as a weak defense...

**Gistok** · December-09-13, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

I went to to an original source-
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...emium-1.562435
It turns out that coracle's source was credible, at least more credible than attacking the messenger without disproving that messenger.

I'm not questioning the fact that Netanyahu decided not to go... that's a given. I just question sometimes how easy it is if you have a specific agenda... to find arguments online to fit that agenda... whether they are right wing or left wing. That $2 billion dollar headline of 3 years ago is coming into play again by our fringe folks here on DYES... only the country and numbers have changed... but the howls of protest remain the same!

**coracle** · December-09-13, 11:50 AM

Yes. I guess when you fuck-up Gostik it's best to change the subject.

**noise** · December-09-13, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Yes. I guess when you fuck-up Gostik it's best to change the subject.

Isn't that what you do? Or do you just stick to poorly crafted "jokes" so that you can hide behind "humor" when you get called out?

**rb336** · December-09-13, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

And you are using your own incredible left wing bull shit beliefs to condone the Public spending on our contingent consisting of 3 Presidents/wives and 26 congressmen not to mention their families and staff - so I won't mention them. People of your political group should be made to pay for it out of your own pockets.
[[Of course if my right wing BLOG is wrong Netanyahu will be there.)

Ah, just admit it - this is just another outlet for your hate BS. You have absolutely zero concept of diplomacy. Beyond strengthening ties to the strongest democracy in Africa, and its strongest economy, this is exactly the kind of function where behind-the-scenes negotiations take place on many levels. It is so much beyond the idea of "going to a funeral." It is, in actuality, a vital part of statecraft. The Israeli isn't going because Israel has no statecraft.

**Gistok** · December-10-13, 12:47 PM

I thought I would post this before the bloggers start going Apoplectic with indignancy...

Obama shaking hands with Raul Castro....
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...-obama-castro/

How can one not like Christiane Amanpur!

NOTE: I am neither left nor right wing... just right in the middle... yes "a plague on both your houses" Centrist. However the left has been much more mature in this whole political battling for the last 15 years... than has the right... However... we voted our president INTO OFFICE... so some respect for our Commander-In-Chief is due to the office... no matter how much you disrespect the man... so he's handling himself with dignity here... and just maybe... he's doing the right thing at possibly thawing relations with Cuba....

Now let the hate begin....

**Zacha341** · December-10-13, 01:51 PM

^^^ I feel you on that to a large extent....

"I am neither left nor right wing... just right in the middle... yes "a plague on both your houses" Centrist."

**Jimaz** · December-10-13, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

...Obama shaking hands with Raul Castro....

Note that they conspicuously avoid mentioning whether or not there was involved a joy buzzer.

**rb336** · December-10-13, 04:40 PM

Of course the right-wing dipshits would rather he play the childish don't-shake-his-hand game

**noise** · December-10-13, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by rb336

Of course the right-wing dipshits would rather he play the childish don't-shake-his-hand game

This concept is so ridiculous to me. Misplaced childhood aggressions and bravado, or something. Crush all dissenters? Or defend the right to disagree?

**oladub** · December-11-13, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

Of course the right-wing dipshits would rather he play the childish don't-shake-his-hand game

I wonder if Mr. Mandela would have referred to people he disagreed with as "dipshits"? A quick glance through this thread didn't reveal any mention of the hand shaking incident although I fully support it. I don't know why the US doesn't sell Wisconsin dairy products, apples, medical equipment, etc. to Cuba. If Cubans want a dictator, or don't care enough to remove one, that's their business. It shouldn't mean that we can't trade with them or that our President shouldn't be shaking their leader's hand. It sure beats droning Tripoli or Syria. On top of the common sense of getting along, shaking hands was in the spirit of Mr. Mandela and the example of how he decided to get along with "dipshits" like De Klerk.

**Zacha341** · December-11-13, 12:00 PM

Well stated O. Plus we do business with and shake hands politically with China...

**rb336** · December-11-13, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

I wonder if Mr. Mandela would have referred to people he disagreed with as "dipshits"?

Not calling people who disagree with me dipshits, just the dipshits that will bitch an moan about the handshake and try to use it as "proof" that Obama is a commie

**oladub** · December-19-13, 10:42 AM

I'm still ok with the President attending the Mandela funeral. He was expected to considering the international stature of Mr. Mandela. However, I don't see why the cost of his trip should have cost taxpayers more than, say, $1M, plus the cost of Air Force One. Instead, estimates are that the trip cost US taxpayers $11M. At a time when Democrats find it necessary to cut veteran pensions and spend almost $1B rolling out the [[un)ACA, $11M is preposterous. My suggestion is that future presidents have non-essential people tagging along pay their own bills.