Gov. Snyder, Mayor Bing, Kevyn Orr and Boeing

[renf]

We have a test to see if the right to work law accomplishes its aims. After the machinist union in Seattle turned down a new contact, Boeing threaten to move production of the 777X to some other location. Metro Detroit has, arguably, a larger pool of skilled machinists, metal workers and electricians than other metropolises. Either the Coleman Young Airport or the I-94
Industrial Project Renaissance Zone would provide the space needed for a large plant. We will owe Governor Snyder a tip of the hat if 777xs are assembled in Detroit or Michigan. There are rumors that Boeing will pick a site in Alabama, California, South Carolina, Texas or Utah. If Michigan is high on their list, I
can understand why local officials would keep quiet.

[douglasm]

Speculation out here is that Long Beach, Calif. is the lead site outside of the Puget Sound area. Boeing has a large facility there [[acquired when they purchased McDonald/Douglas in 1998) that will become empty when C-17 production halts in 2015. There is a big problem with taxes there, though.

The last time Boeing tried to move production, it was when they placed a 787 production line in Charleston, South Carolina. That hasn't worked out so well for them due to quality control issues, with the Everett, WA produced planes having far fewer quality issues than the ones built in the southeast.

One of the BIG issues that also will effect where the plant goes is transportation. Fuselage sections will be built in Japan, and it has been reported that the lack of a nearby port is a concern when it comes to transporting the sections. There is something of a time concern which gives both Long Beach and Everett a leg up being west coast ports.

The other concern is schedule. The 787 was almost 4 years behind schedule before it was launched, and airline companies have told Boeing that they want 777X production to run as close to schedule as possible. Starting from scratch with a new plant, employees and etc., with the possible delays inherent with a new facility also may tip the balance to Long Beach or Everett.

To be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if the 777X is built in Everett. Boeing has the trained employees, and the space to do it, and with the tax incentives passed by the Washington legislature....incentive that would go away if the 777X is built elsewhere.....there's a good chance it will stay.

Having said that, I wouldn't be shocked if the 777X is built elsewhere, either.

[Lowell]

We have a test to see if the right to work law accomplishes its aims. After the machinist union in Seattle turned down a new contact, Boeing threaten to move production of the 777X to some other location. Metro Detroit has, arguably, a larger pool of skilled machinists, metal workers and electricians than other metropolises. Either the Coleman Young Airport or the I-94
Industrial Project Renaissance Zone would provide the space needed for a large plant. We will owe Governor Snyder a tip of the hat if 777xs are assembled in Detroit or Michigan. There are rumors that Boeing will pick a site in Alabama, California, South Carolina, Texas or Utah. If Michigan is high on their list, I
can understand why local officials would keep quiet.

My spies tell me that historic Wiilow Run site is available if those don't work.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

City Airport lacks adequate runway space to be either a class A airport or a facility constructing aircraft. The fact that it is surrounded by cemeteries more or less makes it impossible to expand.

[Jimaz]

... The last time Boeing tried to move production, it was when they placed a 787 production line in Charleston, South Carolina. That hasn't worked out so well for them due to quality control issues, with the Everett, WA produced planes having far fewer quality issues than the ones built in the southeast....

I confess a sense of schadenfreude over the 787 debacles. I worked on the 777 and it was considered an unprecedented success in most areas. Those were the days, my friend!

Bring it on, Boeing. Detroit can do this too!

[DetroitPlanner]

We have a test to see if the right to work law accomplishes its aims. After the machinist union in Seattle turned down a new contact, Boeing threaten to move production of the 777X to some other location. Metro Detroit has, arguably, a larger pool of skilled machinists, metal workers and electricians than other metropolises. Either the Coleman Young Airport or the I-94
Industrial Project Renaissance Zone would provide the space needed for a large plant. We will owe Governor Snyder a tip of the hat if 777xs are assembled in Detroit or Michigan. There are rumors that Boeing will pick a site in Alabama, California, South Carolina, Texas or Utah. If Michigan is high on their list, I can understand why local officials would keep quiet.

Use DET for 777? Come on dude. Willow Run would be most logical. It has long runways and lots of unused factory space. Suppose you figure out a way to reconfigure DET to make it long enough. You would still have to deal with two issues: 1. come up with 100's of millions of dollars to rebuild it; and 2. Noise complaints from the people who live around it. These would include not only Detroit & Grosse Pointe Citizens but most likely southern Macomb County as well.

There are reasons why both DTW and YIP are out in cornfields surrounded by factories and warehouses.

[maverick1]

The last time Boeing tried to move production, it was when they placed a 787 production line in Charleston, South Carolina. That hasn't worked out so well for them due to quality control issues, with the Everett, WA produced planes having far fewer quality issues than the ones built in the southeast.

Quite a few manufacturers encounter this when they move an operation to some Southern states. A lot of it has to do with the skill level of the employees. It's not enough of an issue to affect the bottom line so they don't make too much of an issue about it. Most times they spend more money on tools or change the process to further remove the human element.

[313WX]

Use DET for 777? Come on dude. Willow Run would be most logical. It has long runways and lots of unused factory space. Suppose you figure out a way to reconfigure DET to make it long enough. You would still have to deal with two issues: 1. come up with 100's of millions of dollars to rebuild it; and 2. Noise complaints from the people who live around it. These would include not only Detroit & Grosse Pointe Citizens but most likely southern Macomb County as well.

There are reasons why both DTW and YIP are out in cornfields surrounded by factories and warehouses.

Chicago Midway [[MDW) seems to be working out just fine in its current location with these aircrafts.

[michimoby]

Chicago Midway [[MDW) seems to be working out just fine in its current location with these aircrafts.

By "these aircrafts", you're describing commuter planes and 737s, which are considerably smaller. At most, it can handle a 757.

[Wesley Mouch]

By "these aircrafts", you're describing commuter planes and 737s, which are considerably smaller. At most, it can handle a 757.

I used to fly commercial into/out of Midway weekly. Mostly Southwest 737s.

Some of those landings were really exciting. When landing at MDW the planes auto-brakes are often pretty high, and you feel like you're going to get pulled out of your seat as it stops. Then when the plane turns, you realize that after that dramatic stop, there was no runway left. You stare at the traffic light at the busy road intersection just a few feet away.

This was years ago, and they poured a lot of money into MDW. So maybe they found a way to add a few hundred yards to one of their runways. Even if so, MDW remains a very short runway. Their longest is 6,522. Metro's longest is 12,003 -- nearly twice as long.

[Detroitnerd]

Congrats to the union for voting for the right thing in the face of open bribes and overwhelming management propaganda.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...rank-and-file/

[Wesley Mouch]

Congrats to the union for voting for the right thing in the face of open bribes and overwhelming management propaganda.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...rank-and-file/

I'd suggest to you that the propaganda wasn't 'overwhelming', since the members voted otherwise. It didn't overwhelm them. They listened to both sides, and made a decision.

People are pretty smart these days. Matty Maroun can spend a fortune and tries to buy the world. And the people said 'phooey'.

Whether its the right thing, I don't know. I wish them a good living. And I hope Boeing stays competitive and keeps the work in the USA.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Congrats to the union for voting for the right thing in the face of open bribes and overwhelming management propaganda.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...rank-and-file/

Now they will lose the jobs when the production is relocated to South Carolina, California, or one of the other sites that is being scouted by Boeing.

It's AAM all over again. When will people learn? While I agree with the union folks, I also realize that holding that position is foolish when the choice is concessions or your job being shipped out.

[Detroitnerd]

Now they will lose the jobs when the production is relocated to South Carolina, California, or one of the other sites that is being scouted by Boeing.

It's AAM all over again. When will people learn? While I agree with the union folks, I also realize that holding that position is foolish when the choice is concessions or your job being shipped out.

Oh there is another choice. That's when things get so bad that you need a coup or a revolution to sustain or change things. You can bet today's CEOs will just keep stomping on the accelerator until they bring the house down around us. Why should they care? They'll be on the next jet to Costa Rica before you can say PAPA DOC.

[Eber Brock Ward]

Building on that dnerd, I have been surprised that there hasn't been more violence against executives -- namely those that took huge bonuses or golden parachutes while cutting jobs or setting up companies to fail in the future for short-term gains.

But barring that, these Boeing workers need to put food on the table. Lots of times companies are bluffing about relocation, but this isn't one of them. It's a negotiation, and Boeing has the leverage.

Just a shame to see.

[Wesley Mouch]

Oh there is another choice. That's when things get so bad that you need a coup or a revolution to sustain or change things. You can bet today's CEOs will just keep stomping on the accelerator until they bring the house down around us. Why should they care? They'll be on the next jet to Costa Rica before you can say PAPA DOC.

Lumping Corporate Executives together and labelling them as such is no more helpful than calling Union Bosses thugs. Sure, there are Union Boss thugs. Sure, there are greedy corporate executives. Both need to be reigned in.

I don't think trade unions are good for their members much anymore, but I respect most union leaders as good people who are looking out for the employees within the law.

Stereotyping and prejudice are bad.

[Detroitnerd]

Lumping Corporate Executives together and labelling them as such is no more helpful than calling Union Bosses thugs. Sure, there are Union Boss thugs. Sure, there are greedy corporate executives. Both need to be reigned in.

I don't think trade unions are good for their members much anymore, but I respect most union leaders as good people who are looking out for the employees within the law.

Stereotyping and prejudice are bad.

I think the facts speak for themselves. It's the system. The playing field is tilted. The political system is bought and paid for. And corporations are only interested in profits, not the common welfare. And they are more interested in the next quarter's profits than they are long-term profitability.

Find me a corporate executive who puts people ahead of profits -- and the board will find a replacement for him the next quarter.

[jackie5275]

It's AAM all over again. When will people learn? While I agree with the union folks, I also realize that holding that position is foolish when the choice is concessions or your job being shipped out.

I think it all depends on the situation. I remember Delphi wanting 60% pay cuts in concessions. I don't remember AAM being that extreme, but I do remember they were significant also, something like 30%. That's a big drop for anyone. If they're short term, like one contract term, that may be liveable. In my situation, we're on our second contract, 6 yrs, worth of concessions. At the end of it next year, we negotiate a new one & my employer is already looking to not only extend the current concessions, but are looking for additional ones. We were initially led to believe only one contract's worth would be all that was needed. Now, we have no idea when they will end or how deep they will be. Depending on the situation, you can't always trust management to be accurate or honest with you.

[Wesley Mouch]

...Find me a corporate executive who puts people ahead of profits -- and the board will find a replacement for him the next quarter.

There are good people, places, things, companies, and CEOs out there. Seek good, not bad. And you might be surprised by what you find.

[Detroitnerd]

There are good people, places, things, companies, and CEOs out there. Seek good, not bad. And you might be surprised by what you find.

That's a nice thought, Wesley. I'm sure that, individually, there are CEOs who are personable, human and quite charming. And if they ever put anything ahead of profits while executing their job, they would be out on their ass.

I appreciate your brave stand for the humanity of every individual.

Don't forget that history's stock of human individuals includes Genghis Khan, Benito Mussolini, Josef Stalin and Josef Mengele. Surely they weren't all that bad either?

[renf]

Michigan Loses the Boeing 777 Assembly Jobs
At the end of last week the machinists union in the Seattle area voted 51% to 49% to accept the offer made by Boeing. The leaders of the union encouraged their members to reject the proposed contract and Boeing threatened to move the assemble of the new 777X to a new site if the contract were rejected. However, the machinists voted to accept the contract. Those who supported the Right-To-Work law in Michigan must be much less than happy. If they had been able to convince Boeing to move here, they would have had an accomplishment.

[mwilbert]

Michigan Loses the Boeing 777 Assembly Jobs.

This doesn't seem to me to be a very sensible way of looking at it. Michigan didn't ever have the jobs to lose, and even if they had left Washington the chances they would have ended up in Michigan were minimal.

I will agree with you that if they had somehow ended up in Michigan, that would have been acclaimed as a victory for the Right to Work folks. But they will have to wait [[possibly a long time) for some other substantial evidence of the value of their preferred policy. No doubt eventually something will turn up.

[Jimaz]

This doesn't seem to me to be a very sensible way of looking at it. Michigan didn't ever have the jobs to lose, and even if they had left Washington the chances they would have ended up in Michigan were minimal.

I will agree with you that if they had somehow ended up in Michigan, that would have been acclaimed as a victory for the Right to Work folks. But they will have to wait [[possibly a long time) for some other substantial evidence of the value of their preferred policy. No doubt eventually something will turn up.

Kind of like when I used to yell out "It worked!" every time we had a power outage at work. It created the impression that I was controlling something I wasn't. Obviously I was just kidding although I'm sure some people wondered.

Funny prank though. I invite others to use it at their own risk.

[coracle]

Michigan Loses the Boeing 777 Assembly Jobs
At the end of last week the machinists union in the Seattle area voted 51% to 49% to accept the offer made by Boeing. The leaders of the union encouraged their members to reject the proposed contract and Boeing threatened to move the assemble of the new 777X to a new site if the contract were rejected. However, the machinists voted to accept the contract. Those who supported the Right-To-Work law in Michigan must be much less than happy. If they had been able to convince Boeing to move here, they would have had an accomplishment.

What has this got to do even remotely with Right-to-Work in Michigan. It's a non event except for the common sense of the Boeing Machinists. Wonder where Detroit would be now if our then Non-Right-to Work Union Members had had the same common sense?

[douglasm]

To be honest, Michigan didn't have much of a chance to begin with, and those people who thought it did were dreaming. The only people who were speculating about the state getting the project were the people here, and although Boeing said they had received proposals from 22 states, Michigan never appeared in any discussion concerning plant location in any of the news pieces in the Seattle print media or on local TV.