SMART August 2014 Property Tax Renewal YES or NO?

[That Great Guy]

Nearly everyone agrees a good public mass transit system is important to the City of Detroit and surrounding areas. So, is it YES or NO? and why?

[finster]

I'll vote Yes, even though I may never use it but I sure hope they have some real, tangible RTA plans before the election that actually make sense to give voters a reason to vote yes. Of course if it was a real RTA then it would be an RTA millage, but I guess that may be to much to ask for around here.

I don't know the particulars of how it works but if its business as usual then the possibility of more suburban cities and townships opting out becomes very real and the downward spiral of stupidity will continue and be even harder to reverse.

[Scottathew]

No SMART bus routes in Rochester Hills...

[Danny]

I will vote YES, YES, YES, on the 2014 SMART bus Property Tax Renewal. Without it No SMART busses in your area.

[That Great Guy]

Vote no. Its an ineffective patchwork of a system that does not serve the needs of the region. Continuing to pour money into it does nothing but keep it limping along just enough to prevent true overhaul.

The choice of NO caps the property tax and only the increase if any is defeated.

[cramerro]

The choice of NO caps the property tax and only the increase if any is defeated.

This is not true at all. First, the property tax that funds SMART is actually taxed by each county's transit authority [[SMART has no taxing authority... that's why it was for 2 years in Oakland County, Macomb County voted as a whole county, etc), and each time it is on the ballot, it is for a RENEWAL. If there is an "increase" on the ballot, it only means that this time around they are asking for a higher rate. If you vote NO, it is not renewed, and would be ZERO.

[That Great Guy]

This is not true at all. First, the property tax that funds SMART is actually taxed by each county's transit authority [[SMART has no taxing authority... that's why it was for 2 years in Oakland County, Macomb County voted as a whole county, etc), and each time it is on the ballot, it is for a RENEWAL. If there is an "increase" on the ballot, it only means that this time around they are asking for a higher rate. If you vote NO, it is not renewed, and would be ZERO.

Public bus service as provided by SMART or equivalent is a right protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans with Disabilities Act. This includes all funding and tax mechanisms.

[sumas]

I vote yes. Public transport is imperative.

[professorscott]

[QUOTE=That Great Guy;412887]
Public bus service as provided by SMART or equivalent is a right protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Americans with Disabilities Act. This includes all funding and tax mechanisms.[/QUOTE]

That is simply not true. The relevant laws require that if you provide bus service, it must be accessible. No law in America requires that any community provide public transportation, and many do not. Rochester Hills, as someone recently mentioned, chooses not to, for example.

There is a good bit of misinformation on this thread. The other important fact is what the vote is; it is simply a vote to renew the property tax collected in each county for SMART. It is not an increase. If a county votes yes, it maintains its current level of service; if it votes no, it loses all SMART service.

[DetroitPlanner]

That is simply not true. The relevant laws require that if you provide bus service, it must be accessible. No law in America requires that any community provide public transportation, and many do not. Rochester Hills, as someone recently mentioned, chooses not to, for example.

There is a good bit of misinformation on this thread. The other important fact is what the vote is; it is simply a vote to renew the property tax collected in each county for SMART. It is not an increase. If a county votes yes, it maintains its current level of service; if it votes no, it loses all SMART service.

I concur. What you want does not mean the same as what the law requires or enforces. Most communities serviced by SMART are pretty happy with the services. I only wish that some of the holes left by opt-out communities were filled.

[jackie5275]

Didn't we just vote on this renewal? Or was it last year? I always vote yes on it anyway. I know tons of folks who use it.

[cramerro]

If you live in Oakland County, you just voted last year. They put a 2-year measure on the ballot 3 years ago for whatever reason. This time around [[2014), all three counties will be voting again, term length and rate requested to be announced.

[That Great Guy]

This renewal is a tax shift from fuel to property. I'm opposed to the widening of I-94 in midtown Detroit and the I-75 freeway in Oakland County by using the same money which used to pay for public bus service. Tax shifting from an existing need to a new need is illegal, unless alternative funding is secured first by a vote of the majority.

I use SMART to get to work and think we should expand public bus service and work to fill up the buses to help make the most of our limited tax dollars.

But most of all we should put safety first. Shutting down bus routes to expand freeways is not putting safety first. It is instead putting heavier trucks on the roads which is both costly and dangerous, encouraging faster speeds and increasing the need to drive everywhere because of more urban sprawl.

[DetroitPlanner]

How is a renewal a tax shift? It is not the same money. There is a formula in Act 51 that distributes it.

If you want to prioritize safety first as well as transit both I-94 and I-75 contain elements that support both priorities. I-94's main issue is an operational one, the combination of left and right hand exits and on ramps makes traffic weave more than it should and creates hazzards. This slows down traffic and causes increased idling wich leads to dirty air. As far as this causing urban sprawl you have to be kidding yourself. If anything it is improving access to the New Center/Midtown area; making it more attractive for increased development.

I-75 will implement the first HOV in this part of the country. HOV or High Occupancy Vehicle Lanes act to take cars off of streets and put people into carpools. These will also be used by SMART express busses. With SMART busses not stuck in traffic any longer they will become more attractive to ride.

[RO_Resident]

This renewal is a tax shift from fuel to property. I'm opposed to the widening of I-94 in midtown Detroit and the I-75 freeway in Oakland County by using the same money which used to pay for public bus service. Tax shifting from an existing need to a new need is illegal, unless alternative funding is secured first by a vote of the majority.

I use SMART to get to work and think we should expand public bus service and work to fill up the buses to help make the most of our limited tax dollars.

But most of all we should put safety first. Shutting down bus routes to expand freeways is not putting safety first. It is instead putting heavier trucks on the roads which is both costly and dangerous, encouraging faster speeds and increasing the need to drive everywhere because of more urban sprawl.

The state and federal gas taxes are largely binned. If MDOT were to scale back I-94 and I-75 to reconstructions [[which would reduce the project cost by ~40 percent), or scrap the projects all together, essentially none of the budget could be flexed to transit service.

[That Great Guy]

The state and federal gas taxes are largely binned. If MDOT were to scale back I-94 and I-75 to reconstructions [[which would reduce the project cost by ~40 percent), or scrap the projects all together, essentially none of the budget could be flexed to transit service.

That is exactly right, binned as in nearly gone. Those who rely on bus service to get to work and the handicapped will not lose their bus service should the renewal fail. The newspaper stories of metro mass transit ending without your YES vote are just simply not true.

Prior to the first passage of this tax in 1995, SMART was funded by tax on fuel collected by the Michigan Department of Transportation. This is what makes it a tax shift and why if defeated the present tax remains and also why our state would have to restore funding under Act 51. If not, both our State and County governments would face human rights violations similar to shutting down the water or the fire department.

Tax shifting away from an existing need has been successfully challenged before, thus can prevail with the August 2014 renewal if properly enforced and it will be should the majority vote NO.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Great Guy:

If you believe that this is tax shifting than perhaps each driver should pay at least the same amount of gas tax they paid in 1995; adjusted for inflation. This would restore the MTF and then there would be little reason for the millage. Remember, about that time the state tax was raised to 19 cents per gallon; of which transit would get about 1.5 cents. People were driving a lot more miles per year [[as reflected in typical current leases are at 10k instead of 12k) and fuel economy on the fleet was much worse. Lets see, to make up for inflation, the reduction in driving, the better fuel economy you are looking at probably about 50 cents per gallon instead of 19 cents. As an added bonus the roads would get better too!

The fact is that the gas tax loses more and more money every year and the federal gas tax is nearly bankrupt. The State's gas tax is almost as bad.

Oh and without the millage you might as well say goodbye to SMART. There is no way that they will be able to provide paratransit services for the ADA and elderly without it. Thank God most people in the region don't feel like you and support it; transit is such a lifeline for those without cars and allows them to get to jobs, medical appointments, and to grocers and have a bit of independence.

[That Great Guy]

DetroitPlanner

Do you think somehow that I'm opposed to the renewal?

I'm not, if we stop building more freeways without providing a safe public bus system first

Once you vote in higher taxes, then you will get the freeways unless you get in writing at the voting booth that the large buses remain.