2014 Candidate for MI Governor proposes raising Minimum wage to $9.25.

[brizee]

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...r_mark_sc.html

I'm all for it.

[artds]

I'm all for it.

Really? Why?

[Det_ard]

Here's one benefit. There are some real idiots out there, you know, your $7.50 or $8.00/hr types. If minimum wage goes up to $9.25/hr all those sub-$9.25 types are now history. No business will keep the existing $7.50 guy when he has to pay him $9.50. No, he'll go out and hire the guy he couldn't get for $7.50, the $9.50 guy. This guy is going to be a better worker.

What happens to the $7.50/hr guy? Who gives a shit? Why should I care? Mark Schauer certainly doesn't give a shit about that guy. He just priced him out of the job market.

[That Great Guy]

Please, click on the link in the first post. And then to learn more, go the comment that reads "First end the discrimination of the low income wage earners for public government services, then this might work"

[maverick1]

Here's one benefit. There are some real idiots out there, you know, your $7.50 or $8.00/hr types. If minimum wage goes up to $9.25/hr all those sub-$9.25 types are now history. No business will keep the existing $7.50 guy when he has to pay him $9.50. No, he'll go out and hire the guy he couldn't get for $7.50, the $9.50 guy. This guy is going to be a better worker.

What happens to the $7.50/hr guy? Who gives a shit? Why should I care? Mark Schauer certainly doesn't give a shit about that guy. He just priced him out of the job market.

Is that what happened to the $5.15/hr guy in 2006, 2007, and 2008?

[Wesley Mouch]

Is that what happened to the $5.15/hr guy in 2006, 2007, and 2008?

Partly, yes. But I'm not sure I get your point.

Minimum wage laws are mostly protection fom lower-skilled immigrants and entry-level workers. It discriminates against the poor, in favor of the established. Its bad policy. But sounds great.

If you are worried about low-wage, new immigrant, or young workers, please find a real way of helping them -- not the established higher wage workers.

[JBMcB]

He just priced him out of the job market.

But that's completely and totally impossible! As we all know, if you increase the price of operating a business, the business owners have absolutely no choice but to take the price increase out of their own salaries or corporate profits. They can't, say, lay people off and make the existing employees work harder. Or increase prices to make up the difference. Or replace them with machines. Or move to a lower wage state or country. That never happens.

[detlump]

Isn't this just page 1 of the Democratic playbook? Besides what could he do without Demo control of the legislature? I guess his targets don't really understand that.

[ghettopalmetto]

Wow. There's already more spinning on this thread than Super Typhoon Haiyan.

It's simple: If you pay people more, that's more money that gets spent in the economy. Which makes everyone up the food chain better off.

Remember that Henry Ford guy and his Five Dollar Day? Yeah, what a debacle that was for the economy. I'm pretty sure that Ford made a fortune because of that idea. The "hard-working" Walton heirs aren't going to starve if we start paying people enough to buy food.

[Wesley Mouch]

I've been thinking a lot about this discussion. I strongly believe that minimum wage laws hurt the poor disproportionately. But of course the left thinks its compassionate to pay people a 'fair wage'. And of course that's true too. But the market doesn't care about compassion. It simply adjusts -- and that can hurt.

My question is whether there is any discussion at all within the left about the negative impacts of MW.

[noise]

But that's completely and totally impossible! As we all know, if you increase the price of operating a business, the business owners have absolutely no choice but to take the price increase out of their own salaries or corporate profits. They can't, say, lay people off and make the existing employees work harder. Or increase prices to make up the difference. Or replace them with machines. Or move to a lower wage state or country. That never happens.

Is this why so many people support these wonderful, benevolent businesses and not fellow citizens?

[noise]

I've been thinking a lot about this discussion. I strongly believe that minimum wage laws hurt the poor disproportionately. But of course the left thinks its compassionate to pay people a 'fair wage'. And of course that's true too. But the market doesn't care about compassion. It simply adjusts -- and that can hurt.

My question is whether there is any discussion at all within the left about the negative impacts of MW.

Would market regulation fix that problem?

[brizee]

http://www.freep.com/article/20140424/NEWS06/304240103



OH MY GOD!

These Republicans have been giving the finger and sneering at the idea of raising the min. wage for years.

A serious campaign to put the question to ballot that they know

a. is as good as passed if it's put to a vote

b. will draw out maybe otherwise apathetic Dem voters in an important years

And now they offer a pittance to try to kill it.

Good luck with that!



I'm sure that's gonna work out well for them.

[ghettopalmetto]

Here's one benefit. There are some real idiots out there, you know, your $7.50 or $8.00/hr types. If minimum wage goes up to $9.25/hr all those sub-$9.25 types are now history. No business will keep the existing $7.50 guy when he has to pay him $9.50. No, he'll go out and hire the guy he couldn't get for $7.50, the $9.50 guy. This guy is going to be a better worker.

What happens to the $7.50/hr guy? Who gives a shit? Why should I care? Mark Schauer certainly doesn't give a shit about that guy. He just priced him out of the job market.

Sweden has a minimum wage equivalent to $19/hr. It must be only by the Grace of God, then, that they have a higher standard of living than Americans.

You can take your plantation logic back to the farm. Raise the minimum wage to a living wage.

[TKshreve]

It is fact that when MW is raised, prices with follow. Often, MW jobs fall into the food service, retail and general service sector. All businesses with high turnover, lower aged labor pools, lower ticket average sales, and manipulative pricing structures. Just look at the advent of the dollar menu t McD's. Now they all have it, but it's not $1 items anymore. It's now a "value menu"..... with floating prices.

I have countless other examples of ways industry offsets labor hikes [[MW).

[ghettopalmetto]

It is fact that when MW is raised, prices with follow. Often, MW jobs fall into the food service, retail and general service sector. All businesses with high turnover, lower aged labor pools, lower ticket average sales, and manipulative pricing structures. Just look at the advent of the dollar menu t McD's. Now they all have it, but it's not $1 items anymore. It's now a "value menu"..... with floating prices.

I have countless other examples of ways industry offsets labor hikes [[MW).

Prices go up no matter what, sometimes because the CEO just "needs" a bigger bonus, so you can go right ahead and burn your straw man. As Henry Ford knew, when workers are able to afford the goods they produce, the entire economy benefits.

We've absorbed numerous hikes in the minimum wage over time. Certainly, you're not advocating that Minimum Wage return to the $0.25/hr it was in 1938. Because that would cost additional subsidies in food stamps, welfare, EITC, health insurance premiums...You're smart enough to get the idea.

So please, enlighten us. What is the upside of full-time workers making less than $19,300 a year?

[bailey]

Prices go up no matter what, sometimes because the CEO just "needs" a bigger bonus, so you can go right ahead and burn your straw man. As Henry Ford knew, when workers are able to afford the goods they produce, the entire economy benefits.

I know that get pushed out there a lot, and even ford corporate has it out there...but that is a bit of myth. It's been debunked quite often...hell, even by my very left leaning MSU econ professor. He didn't come up with the 5 dollar number so they could buy cars, he came up with it to keep them from walking out on the drudgery that was work on the line. Ford had huge labor turnover. Some would just walk out in the middle of the shift. He was looking at how to just keep people showing up to work and the line running. It was not about paying a living wage, or being able to afford a Model T, it was about competition for good workers. It worked so well because Ford was able to save enormous costs in training new workers and halt production interruptions. Lower wage workers could afford Fords because of the rather simple reason Ford cut costs and boosted production and lowered the price point.

Also, something no one ever talks about, the 5 bucks was not just a straight wage, it was both pay and bonus. The bonus only came after satisfying the character requirements Ford decided all his workers should abide and those were enforced by the Socialization Organization. The SO would show up at the employees’ homes and inspect them to ensure that they were doing things the “American way.” They were supposed to avoid social ills such as gambling and drinking. They were to learn English and had to attend classes to become “Americanized.” Women were not eligible for the bonus unless they were single and supporting the family. Also, men were not eligible if their wives worked outside the home.

anyone going to put up with that from McDonalds for $20 an hour?

[oladub]

I support a higher minimum wage for a variety of reasons -

-As Wesley Mouch pointed out, a higher minimum wage discriminates against illegal aliens who are hired because they work for less money. There would consequently be more jobs for US workers.

-A higher minimum wage would reduce social benefit programs based on income.

-That, in turn, would allow social work agencies to trim their staffs and budgets; a benefit for taxpayers.

-A higher minimum wage would prompt the development of robotization and self serve technologies. Some new jobs would be created in those fields.

-Walmart would have to pay more in some places instead of foisting its employees on government programs.

I would like to allow student aged entry level workers to have a lower minimum wage so they can get their first job experience and be less dependent on student loans; another saving for taxpayers. Raising minimum wages will, to some extent, send some jobs abroad. The federal government could help by raising tariffs while lowering income taxes. Raising minimum wages at the state level would also be compliant with the 10th Amendment.

[rb336]

Sweden has a minimum wage equivalent to $19/hr. It must be only by the Grace of God, then, that they have a higher standard of living than Americans.

You can take your plantation logic back to the farm. Raise the minimum wage to a living wage.

better example is Australia. their minimum is $15/hr - around $14 US. Unemployment rate? 5%

It is simple logic: More money in more hands = more economic activity = more jobs = more money in more hands = a rising sea that lifts all boats

[ghettopalmetto]

better example is Australia. their minimum is $15/hr - around $14 US. Unemployment rate? 5%

It is simple logic: More money in more hands = more economic activity = more jobs = more money in more hands = a rising sea that lifts all boats

But see, that doesn't fly with the Plantation Class who inherited their wealth. A rising tide that lifts all boats = uppity commoners who start thinking for themselves and threaten their power.

Better to keep the peasants in perpetual destitution, so they can beg for crumbs from their Masters.

[oladub]

Australia has become China's strip mine. It's sort of like comparing North Dakota's unemployment with the rest of the Country.

A better example is Washington State which has a $9.32 minimum wage. Seattle is about to pass a $15 minimum wage. We can sit back and see how those wages work out. Bye-bye grocery store cashiers. Will McDonalds raise prices or set up vending machine options? Stay tuned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat

[rb336]

No, that would be like comparing New South Wales to North Dakota

[TKshreve]

Prices go up no matter what, sometimes because the CEO just "needs" a bigger bonus, so you can go right ahead and burn your straw man. As Henry Ford knew, when workers are able to afford the goods they produce, the entire economy benefits.

We've absorbed numerous hikes in the minimum wage over time. Certainly, you're not advocating that Minimum Wage return to the $0.25/hr it was in 1938. Because that would cost additional subsidies in food stamps, welfare, EITC, health insurance premiums...You're smart enough to get the idea.

So please, enlighten us. What is the upside of full-time workers making less than $19,300 a year?

I'm simply stating a cause and effect situation. NOWHERE did I say I either agree with or disagree with MW legislation. So go make someone else your "straw man". FFS

Do you honestly think small business owners are just going to eat labor cost increases imposed upon them by legislation?

[SDCC]

Currently the minimum wage in California is $8.00 per hour. It will increase to $9.00 per hour in about 2 months [[effective July 1, 2014).
The wage will then increase to $10.00 per hour effective January 1, 2016. However within the state, the city of San Francisco has a minimum wage of $10.74 – the highest in the country. Fast food restaurants are still standing...

[wolverine]

It is fact that when MW is raised, prices with follow. Often, MW jobs fall into the food service, retail and general service sector. All businesses with high turnover, lower aged labor pools, lower ticket average sales, and manipulative pricing structures. Just look at the advent of the dollar menu t McD's. Now they all have it, but it's not $1 items anymore. It's now a "value menu"..... with floating prices.

I have countless other examples of ways industry offsets labor hikes [[MW).

Rising prices in the fast food industry would be a wonderful thing.