Cover up I-75 between Midtown & Downtown?

[SpartanDawg]

This would be a dream come true.. the detroit corridor alliance is trying to make something come together and what not.. realistically won't happen.. I think I - 375 will be taken care of first [[either be covered or raised)

but it would be IDEAL if they could cover 375 and 75 in this manner...

[WaCoTS]

so according to that pic, we're going to rebuild the Statler & Cass Tech as well?

lol i'd be down for that

[mtburb]

so according to that pic, we're going to rebuild the Statler & Cass Tech as well?

lol i'd be down for that

Don't forget the original Comerica Park scoreboard and the Madison-Lenox [[which are the twin white buildings [[with a shorter one connecting both) at the very left, above the DAC). And I also just noticed that Vernor Highway is also being rebuilt as part of the plan.

[WaCoTS]

i guess the Donovan Blg is just shit outta luck then

[Scottathew]

This would be HUGE in building on momentum. I'd love to see Illitch develop on his parking lots too, even if it's just a parking garage with Woodward facing retail.

Even if a trimmed down plan where streetwall is just maintained on Woodward would be huge.

[mikeg19]

I don't know how this would even be possible. Ya, I get that it's feasible in an engineering sense to do this, but there is ZERO cash for this dream project to happen. MDOT can't even keep up with routine maintenance, let alone fantasize about pie in the sky projects.

[Scottathew]

I don't know how this would even be possible. Ya, I get that it's feasible in an engineering sense to do this, but there is ZERO cash for this dream project to happen. MDOT can't even keep up with routine maintenance, let alone fantasize about pie in the sky projects.

That's why I think a scaled down version may be more appropriate on Woodward over I-75.

Here's a real-world example:



Here's an article about where it has actually been implemented in Cleveland [[correction: Columbus): http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....-offers-m.html

We don't have a space issue in Detroit, we have the same issue they have in Cleveland [[correction: Columbus), freeways tear apart communities. Maintaining streetwall is the huge plus here.

Also, I don't know what it would be relative to cost, but M-DOT would be able to generate revenue by leasing this space.

[SpartanDawg]

That's why I think a scaled down version may be more appropriate on Woodward over I-75.

Here's a real-world example:



Here's an article about where it has actually been implemented in Cleveland: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune....-offers-m.html

We don't have a space issue in Detroit, we have the same issue they have in Cleveland, freeways tear apart communities. Maintaining streetwall is the huge plus here.

Also, I don't know what it would be relative to cost, but M-DOT would be able to generate revenue by leasing this space.

Oh damn! i've never seen that before .. that would be AWESOME even if we got just that!... i'm praying they do ANYTHING to help connect midtown and downtown better with this new arena project..



i know I heard they were saying they were gonna build at least one more pedestrian bridge and connect i think 2nd street? one of those streets to the west of cass ... so who knows... it would be cool to implement some street wall though

[48202]

That is in Columbus, not Cleveland. It is between Downtown and a neighborhood called the Short North. Not too far from Ohio State University.

[mwilbert]

This worked really well in Columbus. But from what I could tell, they didn't try to cover up the whole freeway, but just a strategic portion so that you could get from Downtown to Short North and also to Victorian Village. They also built over some railroad tracks that would otherwise be a barrier.

The whole effect isn't perfect, because they had to put some pretty unwalkable streets on the back side of the Convention center, but the connection between downtown and the neighborhoods to the north and west is quite successful. Walking on High Street between downtown and Short North/Ohio State you would never notice the freeway at all.

[wolverine]

Chicago has had a new proposal to cap over the Kennedy expressway but costs ballooned out of control. It's moving forward with planning at $60 million per city block, but Detroit could pull it off at 1/3 of the price because of less complexity.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/2304211...ver-costs.html

It does make sense though. If I want to develop land close to downtown and there's this blighted freeway near my property, it makes sense to get public and private funding to cover it up to boost land value and spur new development

[subsidized]

That is in Columbus, not Cleveland. It is between Downtown and a neighborhood called the Short North. Not too far from THE Ohio State University.

I fixed it for ya.

[48202]

Knew I shoulda just typed OSU Or Ohio State.

Mea culpa.

[DetroitPlanner]

Oh damn! i've never seen that before .. that would be AWESOME even if we got just that!... i'm praying they do ANYTHING to help connect midtown and downtown better with this new arena project..



i know I heard they were saying they were gonna build at least one more pedestrian bridge and connect i think 2nd street? one of those streets to the west of cass ... so who knows... it would be cool to implement some street wall though

Yes you would need to have something N of the freeway that generates enough ped traffic to make this work. Not only is MDOT broke, the feds no longer earmark projects like this one. Unless you can get it done quick it won't happen as the Bridge is coming out for the M-1 rail project. It would have made all the sense in the world to do this as one.

[motz]

We don't have a space issue in Detroit, we have the same issue they have in Cleveland [[correction: Columbus), freeways tear apart communities. Maintaining streetwall is the huge plus here.

I have been thinking about this a lot, as my preferred route to I-75 is Lodge->Davison->75. The Lodge is this big gap between Woodbridge and Midtown, while the Davison creates a seriously large buffer between two areas. To get back on topic, I-375 creates a massive gap between Brush Park/Lafyette Park/Downtown, and with the momentum that we are seeing right now, capping it could help the development spill over into these two areas, similar to how we are seeing it spill over into Corktown.

[jeduncan]

That is in Columbus, not Cleveland. It is between Downtown and a neighborhood called the Short North. Not too far from Ohio State University.

Yeah. Short North/Victorian Village are arguably about the equivalent of some parts of Ann Arbor. In Detroit we'd be linking no-mans-land with downtown. Just ask Hans57 [[member of this forum) he lived just down the street from this thing for a few years. Definitely a different world.

[CleveBill]

I'm somewhat familiar with that part of Columbus, and can remember the area before and after the rebuild. I don't think it was much of an improvement. In any case, comparing Columbus, a relatively new and expanding city, with Detroit is not particularly germane: a better comparison would be with Cleveland where, as with Detroit, the construction of the freeway system in the 1950's and 60's wrecked havoc on the urban neighborhoods. An even better comparison might be to Boston, home of the "Big Dig": although finally completed, it tore up downtown for over a decade.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm somewhat familiar with that part of Columbus, and can remember the area before and after the rebuild. I don't think it was much of an improvement. In any case, comparing Columbus, a relatively new and expanding city, with Detroit is not particularly germane: a better comparison would be with Cleveland where, as with Detroit, the construction of the freeway system in the 1950's and 60's wrecked havoc on the urban neighborhoods. An even better comparison might be to Boston, home of the "Big Dig": although finally completed, it tore up downtown for over a decade.

Well that, and it seems like the farmers who run the Ohio General Assembly have a soft spot for Columbus, whereas Cleveland, Toledo, Akron, and Cincinnati can rot in hell. Sure, ODOT will go along with Columbus's plan for an expensive bridge to make things more pedestrian-friendly. But God forbid ODOT allows bike lanes on the new Innerbelt Bridge in Cleveland.

[Danny]

The I-75 cover-up to build more city scape plan is not going to work. Too much money and we need big corporate support to expand that project in this early millennium. However the I-75 city scape cover-up project could happen in about 50 to 75 years.

As for right now Detroit is not Delta City.

[trstar]

Hastings II

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

I think these cover-up/bury proposals would be great if we could wave a wand and make them occur, but they would be very, very expensive. The reasons to do such a project are:
1) to create more room for development or public spaces/parks
2) cover up expressway eyesores
3) improve connections between neighborhoods/bring together divided neighborhoods

While there is no way to cheaply repair horrible "urban planning" from 1945-1980, we should remember a few things about Detroit, referencing the three points above:

1) Detroit certainly does not lack for space for developments and parks, downtown or elsewhere
2) There are many ways to improve the look of our below grade expressways and their surroundings short of covering/burying them. We tend not to keep them very clean, well repaired, or surrounded by well landscaped grounds. That could all be done for far less money.
3) Existing streets and boulevards that cross 75/375 could be turned into beautiful boulevards with wider sidewalks, landscaped centers, etc.

I have no opposition in theory to the large transformational projects, when there is money sitting around to do them. That isn't in the cards, no matter who favors it, anytime soon. We should improve what we have.

[Scottathew]

1) Detroit certainly does not lack for space for developments and parks, downtown or elsewhere

That's the biggest factor that weight against the large-scale cover-up. We only need to do strategic cover-ups to provided perceived continuity to commercial corridors.

Although there's a much easier win that can happen before any kind of Woodward\I-75 project, and that would be for Illitch to stop sitting on his Woodward parking lots and to do something more useful, like developing on them and stuffing them with jobs.

[wolverine]

I think these cover-up/bury proposals would be great if we could wave a wand and make them occur, but they would be very, very expensive. The reasons to do such a project are:
1) to create more room for development or public spaces/parks
2) cover up expressway eyesores
3) improve connections between neighborhoods/bring together divided neighborhoods

While there is no way to cheaply repair horrible "urban planning" from 1945-1980, we should remember a few things about Detroit, referencing the three points above:

1) Detroit certainly does not lack for space for developments and parks, downtown or elsewhere
2) There are many ways to improve the look of our below grade expressways and their surroundings short of covering/burying them. We tend not to keep them very clean, well repaired, or surrounded by well landscaped grounds. That could all be done for far less money.
3) Existing streets and boulevards that cross 75/375 could be turned into beautiful boulevards with wider sidewalks, landscaped centers, etc.

I have no opposition in theory to the large transformational projects, when there is money sitting around to do them. That isn't in the cards, no matter who favors it, anytime soon. We should improve what we have.

The cost michigan spends on roads and even single road projects altogether does not make a cap "very very expensive." Assuming it's not a huge tunnel and simply broken up, it's not all that different than typical bridge construction. Mdot builds them all day. Large concrete bulb tees with an integrated deck and a central support. It could support low-medium intensive plantings or a lightweight single story commercial structure. Managing the width of the spans would permit passive ventilation and possibly eliminate complicated egress requirements. People use the 696 as a reference, but that's overkill. Something on each side of Woodward would be far less complex to construct.

However, to be practical, it would be best proposed during major reconstruction of 75. Those retaining walls won't last forever.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Wolverine, if you're right, and it is cheap to do, I am all for it.