Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[A2Mike]

Where culture is concerned transit can make a huge difference in accessibility. I worked in downtown SF but lived in Burlingame and used the BART trains to get get to work days; I could stay downtown after work to go to symphony, the opera, museums etc. and still get back to Burlingame late on BART, Caltrain or the SAMTRANS express buses. It's just not possible to get around here without a car and those who are older or somehow impaired need to live where they can fill most of their needs effectively. When I moved back to Michigan the best choice for me was Ann Arbor, but for all its fine points it would still be nice to get to Detroit more easily to attend the DIA and the DSO. A trip last year to a performance at the Chamber Music Society, in the Bloomfield area, was like planning an ascent of K2. At least next week I can hear my beloved SF Symphony at close-by Hill Auditorium. An extensive and well co-ordinated transit system would allow most metropolitan residents, drivers or not, more latitude in living where they liked without sacrificing many of the amenties [[or necessities) of urban life.

[313WX]

The wealth is still here. You just have to find it.

The keyword there is "producing." Naturally, as the Auto Industry is now globalized AND leaner, Metro Detroit isn't nearly as wealthy as it was before [[the money that's still here is all old) nor is it producing as much wealth as it was before. Thus, the region's best days are likely behind it.

[cjd]

How dare you. BHam knows all and there is no single chance that anyone under the age of 50 would choose GP [[or anywhere else for that matter) over Birmingham or the Bloomfields [[except the nasty parts close to Pontiac)

My sarcasm detector isn't working.... are you serious?

[rb336]

Having been raised in the two Bs, I, too, prefer the GPs

[Pam]

My sarcasm detector isn't working.... are you serious?

He's not serious.

[Honky Tonk]

The wealth is still here. You just have to find it.

Let me know if you do, will you?

[Bham1982]

Seriously?!? Seemed pretty damned nice to me.

Have you been to the Bloomfield, Novi, or Southfield libraries? Compared to those, the Birmingham library is tiny and decrepit. Bloomfield and Birmingham have a joint agreement, though, so it's essentially one system from the borrower perspective.

[Bham1982]

Shopping districts bring in tacky, obnoxious and sometimes criminal outsiders. see: Birmingham/Troy

I have a feeling if downtown Detroit ever gets retail going, that DYes will not agree with this line of reasoning. If even an Old Navy opened there would be a 1,000-post DYes thread.

[Gistok]

I have a feeling if downtown Detroit ever gets retail going, that DYes will not agree with this line of reasoning. If even an Old Navy opened there would be a 1,000-post DYes thread.

Yes.... but likely half of that would be involving some insipid argument involving something else that you will claim to be an expert about dealing with.... namely the "glass is half full/half empty" pointlessness....

[motz]

The keyword there is "producing." Naturally, as the Auto Industry is now globalized AND leaner, Metro Detroit isn't nearly as wealthy as it was before [[the money that's still here is all old) nor is it producing as much wealth as it was before. Thus, the region's best days are likely behind it.

Eh, I kind of disagree here. I work at a not-Quicken loan company and we've got a pretty strong mortgage business here in the Detroit-Metro region. Beyond that, yeah, we're lacking some of the diversity, but I don't think our "best days are behind us". My generation has gotten tired of Chicago and such, I know more people who've moved back in the past 2-3 years than moved away.

[gameguy56]

Eh, I kind of disagree here. I work at a not-Quicken loan company and we've got a pretty strong mortgage business here in the Detroit-Metro region. Beyond that, yeah, we're lacking some of the diversity, but I don't think our "best days are behind us". My generation has gotten tired of Chicago and such, I know more people who've moved back in the past 2-3 years than moved away.

I would argue that Chicago is kind of played out with the kids these days. Detroit is edgier, has more of a 'cachet'.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with the real wealth creators. The McMansions at 30 mile and west out to MI-23 are still going to boom with New Money. I still feel like the GPs have such tremendous staying power though due to the lake, their location close to downtown, and their magnificent architechture.

By comparison the bloomfields just seem like an older Oakland Township.

[jerrytimes]

Some of these posts are pretty damn funny. Personally I'd rather live in in Grosse Pointe. In the Bloomfields, the people are so uppity it's disgusting. I've worked in both areas and the people in Oakland county as a whole are so stuck up it's disgusting.

[Hans64]

I was talking with a former longtime resident of Grosse Pointe who told me that part of the problem with rehabilitating the reputation of the Pointes is the area's reputation for being restricted and WASPy. One joke that came up in the conversation was the idea that the best thing that could happen to the area would be for 10,000 wealthy gay couples to move into the Pointes and lavish their disposable income on those beautiful old homes. But there's the rub, as my friend saw it: The sort of young and well-to-do people the Pointes need don't necessarily like the idea of living in that kind of exclusive enclave, with the kind of baggage it carries.

Bear in mind, this was a conversation about perceptions. I'd be interested in actual statistics from, say, 2010 vs. 2000.

Well, here's my perspective as gay former Oakland County resident now living on the West Coast [[for the past 20 years). I grew up in Royal Oak, went to college in MI, then left for good. If I were moving back to the Detroit area, GP would be top of the list. When I was growing up Birmingham was upscale but still had a pleasant small town feel. Well, no more. Too busy, too dense. On a recent visit [[my parents still live there) I was dismayed to see all the McMansions that replaced lovely older homes around Quarton Lake. GP has better housing stock, is more walkable, has a lakefront location, and is closer to downtown. I'm not a shopper so the frequent complaint that GP is too far from a good shopping mall doesn't mean anything to me. GP will get more diverse and sooner or later the downtown/midtown crowd is going to find it very appealing--probably as soon as they have kids.

[sumas]

I hope I am not high jacking this thread too much. Our son is getting a divorce and moving from GPP to Midtown.

Me, I am doing snoopy dances. They have no kids so I'll never have to see that bitch again. His soon to be ex is GP, old money.Actually will only miss her Dad who was gracious and mannerly.

Mid town is a good choice for him. He can walk to work or bike. He is involved in many activities and this centralizes most of his interests. He plans to resume classes at WSU. Has a great creative job and am so happy he will be free to pursue his interests.

I expect he will eventually re-marry, he is great with kids and wants them. Mostly likely he will move back to one of the GPs. It is a good place to raise kids.

[Don K]

Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

Actually, Bloomfield Hills uses the Birmingham Baldwin library.
http://www.bloomfieldhillsmi.net/residents/library.php
The fantastic library you're thinking of might be the Bloomfield Township library at the corner of Lone Pine and Telegraph. People confuse us with the Hills all the time, I suppose because we share a post office and most of the kids go to Bloomfield Hills schools [[some go to Birmingham schools).

[Bham1982]

Actually, Bloomfield Hills uses the Birmingham Baldwin library.
http://www.bloomfieldhillsmi.net/residents/library.php
The fantastic library you're thinking of might be the Bloomfield Township library at the corner of Lone Pine and Telegraph. People confuse us with the Hills all the time, I suppose because we share a post office and most of the kids go to Bloomfield Hills schools [[some go to Birmingham schools).

Yeah, I get it; I grew up there [[Long Lake/Lahser area). When people say "Bloomfield" locally, they usually mean "Bloomfield Hills and Township", and since the township is 10 times the population, they're really default referring to the Township.

[nain rouge]

At least the Grosse Pointes have Lakeshore Drive, some walkable mini-downtowns, and great classic architecture. For the average person, Bloomfield Hills has no interest or value. "Oh wow, a bunch of houses I can't see from the road and like one overpriced restaurant!" That about sums up my feelings about Bloomfield Hills. I guess the millionaires there pay state taxes [[but not a dime for buses) and shop at Great Lakes Crossing, so that's nice.

[Bham1982]

At least the Grosse Pointes have Lakeshore Drive, some walkable mini-downtowns, and great classic architecture. For the average person, Bloomfield Hills has no interest or value. .

And how would that explain why Bloomfield has much higher prices than the Pointes? People don't care about Cranbrook, hills, lakefronts, better schools, more diversity, and more central location? And downtown Birmingham is the downtown for Bloomfield and has 10 times as much stuff as the Hill or Village.

"Oh wow, a bunch of houses I can't see from the road and like one overpriced restaurant!" That about sums up my feelings about Bloomfield Hills. I guess the millionaires there pay state taxes [[but not a dime for buses) and shop at Great Lakes Crossing, so that's nice.

Except that SMART buses do stop, local taxes are relatively high, and Great Lakes Crossing isn't the closest shopping. You conveniently forgot about Somerset and Birmingham. And there are many restaurants in Bloomfield; probably more than in the Pointes; obviously with Birmingham many times more.

[nain rouge]

Wow, you took that very personally. I'm just giving you my opinion as an outsider that couldn't afford to live in either locale.

Bottom line is that the Grosse Pointes have there own semi-urban areas - the Bloomfields don't. Yes, a Bloomfield resident could drive to Birmingham, but in that same time a Grosse Pointer would be looking up at the skyscrapers in Detroit.

And Bloomfield has a more central location? To what, Pontiac? Birmingham and Royal Oak really aren't that big of deal. Those cities are for overgrown frat boys and old people that are scared of Detroit.

Your average Bloomfield snob probably prefers Great Lakes Crossing, since the "riffraff" can take the bus to Somerset. And don't try to tell me that the typical main road in the Bloomfields isn't heavily residential. Bloomfield Hills has to encapsulate the least vibrant stretch of Woodward in the metro area.

But OK, OK, you have a couple hills.

[MaxCady]

Detroit was the economic engine that produced much of the wealth that flowed into the Pointes but the days of the auto barons are long over. With Detroit basically an economic wasteland now, I see the demand for the Pointes decreasing. What was once an enclave of Detroit's wealthy corporate titans has lost it's relevance now that Detroit is bankrupt and unable to sustain itself.

In the decades to come I can see the Pointes becoming similar to areas like Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest; a snap shot of the area's glory days but with property values far below where they should be.

[Gistok]

And how would that explain why Bloomfield has much higher prices than the Pointes? People don't care about Cranbrook, hills, lakefronts, better schools, more diversity, and more central location? And downtown Birmingham is the downtown for Bloomfield and has 10 times as much stuff as the Hill or Village.Except that SMART buses do stop, local taxes are relatively high, and Great Lakes Crossing isn't the closest shopping. You conveniently forgot about Somerset and Birmingham. And there are many restaurants in Bloomfield; probably more than in the Pointes; obviously with Birmingham many times more.

Well it looks like you're making this into another 1000 post thread...

Rather than just leave it at "some prefer GP, while others prefer Bham/BH" for different reasons... you go on preaching to the choir about why you're right and others are not...

Why not just say "different strokes for different folks".... and leave it at that....

[DTWflyer]

Again this doesn't have to be an either/or discussion...

Apples and oranges comparsions don't help to make ones point.

Also, Bham/Bloomfield is highly ideal for one who works in Auburn Hills or Southfield so do not discount its location just simply because GP is closer to downtown Detroit.

[A2Mike]

Detroit was the economic engine that produced much of the wealth that flowed into the Pointes but the days of the auto barons are long over. With Detroit basically an economic wasteland now, I see the demand for the Pointes decreasing. What was once an enclave of Detroit's wealthy corporate titans has lost it's relevance now that Detroit is bankrupt and unable to sustain itself.

In the decades to come I can see the Pointes becoming similar to areas like Palmer Woods and Sherwood Forest; a snap shot of the area's glory days but with property values far below where they should be.

Your assessment is quite correct. The elite areas of any city reflect where that city stands in the economy of the times. Detroit's decline is mirrored in GP's lowered profile among the country's most affluent communities. Lakeshore was once lined with estates, not subsivisions, when Detroit was a dominant force in the nation's economy, but now seems a shadow of its former self - the saving grace being some gems on the sidestreets. That Fifth Avenue and London's West End remain atop the world's most coveted residential districts is a testament to their respective cities' continued renewal and relevance to changing times. GP's best hope is a strong regional response to the opportunities of our own times.

[p69rrh51]

Your assessment is quite correct. The elite areas of any city reflect where that city stands in the economy of the times. Detroit's decline is mirrored in GP's lowered profile among the country's most affluent communities. Lakeshore was once lined with estates, not subsivisions, when Detroit was a dominant force in the nation's economy, but now seems a shadow of its former self - the saving grace being some gems on the sidestreets. That Fifth Avenue and London's West End remain atop the world's most coveted residential districts is a testament to their respective cities' continued renewal and relevance to changing times. GP's best hope is a strong regional response to the opportunities of our own times.

I have lived in GP for over 45 years and have been hearing this BULLSHIT since I moved here and yet to quote Lowell GP is like old man river its keeps moving on. I am always bewildered that 30 ish homes that were razed between the 1950's and 1980's are considered the end of GP. There are still 1000's of homes designed by the greatest concentration of architectural talent in Metro Detroit[[neither Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills comes close), but it seems that because those 30 homes were torn down [[most before many on here were born) that GP is doomed. Its funny its been 30 plus years since the last of them were razed and GP is still standing. In the early 1980's and just recently the area took a hit but both times as the economy rebounded so did GP. Right now the the realtors in GP are crying due to the lack of homes to sell. GP has always been a bargain when compared to similar areas around the country.

Unfortunately everyone's view of GP is from Lakeshore. For GP residents Lakeshore is the last street we would live on.

Last all those 1000's of homes are in very good to exceptional condition-"a testament to the residents of GP's continued renewal and relevance to changing times."

[A2Mike]

This has become an unpleasant place to post. One did not expect such a vociferous response for an earnestly posted opinion. Time to check out, I suppose.