Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[Goose]

Where are the shops, restaurants and services?

WTF? they just put a brand new BW3 at 9 and Harper, what more do you want? its very close to GP.

[corktownyuppie]

You mean to tell me we will have to drive through DETOILET to reach the nearest expressway!? That just won't do!!! After all, CRIME and POVERTY may jump out of nowhere and latch onto our moving luxury car!!!

Im with bham on this. I-696 is definitely the more strategic highway compared to I-94. I-94 is ugly, gritty, and gross. And the cities through which it goes are generally struggling blue collar communities at best or dirty, blighted, neighborhoods with crime issues at worst.

if the neighborhoods bordering I-94 were Boston Edison, Palmer Woods, and Indian Village, people would have a totally different perception of Detroit. Unfortunately, instead of putting our best foot forward, the view from I-94 is some of the worst parts of the city.

Obviously that's no ones "fault" but we shouldn't be ignorant of it. Image does matter.

As for GP, I think it might be a bit premature to say its best days are being it. A lot can change in 10-20 years, and I think that GP property will rise if Downtown becomes seen as a regional attraction and if East English Village cleans up the blight and crime issues.

I know that many Detroiters resent now much focus goes downtown....and understandably so. But even with the recent progress, I think it is fair to say that 50-60+% if the 4,000,000 Metro Detroiters still perceive downtown as dangerous. Now obviously that perception is not accurate IMHO. But it will take another decade or more to start really changing the perception of outsiders. When they see Detroit as a place to explore and enjoy rather than a place to avoid, GP will take off once again.

The advantage that it has puts its head and shoulders above the Oakland County competitors... Coastal property on Lake St Clair. That's a total game changer.

[EastsideAl]

I wonder if Bham has actually spent much time around the Pointes? The Pointes are actually pretty self-contained. Most of my relatives who live out there rarely leave, except to go to events downtown. They do most of their shopping, etc., on Kercheval or on Mack out past Moross. Part of the reason that there are so few restaurants and bars, and why they often struggle in GP, is that Pointers have not generally been a big going-out crowd. They have always tended to stay home at night, eat with their families, etc.

[Hermod]

That is pretty much it. If you have a city that knows how to market itself and stay relevent, it'll be fine. If you don't, it turns into another [[particularly south) Warren.

South Warren is a totally different case. South Warren is a sea of 1000-1300 sq ft ranch houses [[little boxes made of ticky-tacky) whose original owners have moved on for better digs. It is not a collection of big and somewhat big houses as are GP and BH.

[sumas]

We rented in Gpp for the schools for our kids. I didn't find it too stuffy, mostly I was amused. Like the lab retriever dressed in a rain slicker complete with hat and booties. It is or at least was quite racist. That was not amusing.

Kids got through school and we made a bee line back to Detroit. EEV for 7 years [[great community) and now Islandview, another great community. I guess our house is big but it doesn't feel that way. Our home value is close to nothing being Detroit and all. But I am not selling so don't care. In fact we continue to invest in our home.

I went to a ritzy party in GPS and an old lady complimented me on my outfit then informed me it was 5 yrs out of date. Like I could care. I am typing this with my hair in a pony tail, no make up, wearing a hoodie and sweats.

Someone mentioned on this thread that Detroiters resent the attention to downtown/midtown and yes we do.

[Bham1982]

Why is 696 more "strategic"? In case you have to go to Novi or East Lansing? 94 goes through Detroit, DTW, Ann Arbor, Chicago.

Jobs and amenities, obviously. 696 is the main east-west corridor for the region.

If you're doing a long-distance drive to somewhere out-of-state, it doesn't really matter whether you're exactly on the direct freeway or not. No one cares if you're 300 or 310 miles from a once-a-year destination; they do care if you're 5 or 15 miles from a daily destination.

[JBMcB]

I went to a ritzy party in GPS and an old lady complimented me on my outfit then informed me it was 5 yrs out of date.

Then she wasn't from Grosse Pointe. If anything, Pointers are not trendy. It's the home of the mint condition 10-year-old luxury car. I think the most popular car is still the pre-GM Saab wagon.

So GP schools were good enough for your kids, but GP wasn't good enough to live in? Interesting.

[Bham1982]

Then she wasn't from Grosse Pointe. If anything, Pointers are not trendy. It's the home of the mint condition 10-year-old luxury car. I think the most popular car is still the pre-GM Saab wagon.

That's what I was thinking. I always thought of the Pointes as anti-trendy.

The Bloomfields and nearby areas are where you see all the bling. Bentleys, Ferraris and other high end vehicles are common in good weather. Women wear Louboutins when they go out, and four-figure purses are the norm. Obviously not everyone is like that [[I personally know few people like that) but you see it everywhere you go. Scary thing is that a lot of these blingy people actually don't make that much money.

The Pointes have the stereotype of having sensible folks driving old Saabs and Volvos, clipping coupons, and eating simple dinners at home. Compare the scene at Papa Joes in Birmingham, with its perpetually tanned Real Housewife types and "casual cafe" with $30 entrees and then visit a grocery store in the Pointes [[say Trader Joes or Kroger in the Village). Like another galaxy, though probably the bank accounts aren't radically different.

[sumas]

Actually she was in her 70's and lived next door forever to the home where the catered party took place. I thought she was just rude.

I liked GPP just fine, walkable and so forth we made many neighbor friends The schools were adequate but not stellar. Please remember we lived there for many years, were involved in civic activities,,schools and church.

I am not slamming areas, we just are city people so hell yes we returned to our roots quickly. Detroit is my home. It just feels real.

[finster]

Actually she was in her 70's and lived next door forever to the home where the catered party took place. I thought she was just rude.

I liked GPP just fine, walkable and so forth we made many neighbor friends The schools were adequate but not stellar. Please remember we lived there for many years, were involved in civic activities,,schools and church.

I am not slamming areas, we just are city people so hell yes we returned to our roots quickly. Detroit is my home. It just feels real.

Sumas, just from reading your many post on here makes me wish you were MY neighbor. I think I would be truly honored. You seem so cool, down to earth and 'real' as you say.

I doubt if you'd want to move so how about letting us know if the place next door goes up for sale and I'll see if I can beat the fellow DYES'rs to it!

[GPCharles]

The amazing thing about GP is how many people are 3rd, 4th and 5th generation. They head off to college, go elsewhere for 1st jobs, but many come back when they start to raise children. I have lived here for over 50 years and have lived in a grand total of 3 different homes, including my parents' house.

[Bham1982]

Do the different Pointes have different vibes, wealth, demos? Is there a prestige hierarchy?

Shores
-
Farms
-
Park/City
-
-
Woods

Is that about right, GP folks? I think, in terms of pricing/prestige, that's basically it. Obviously there are variations, though. Anything close to the water is expensive, and anything close to Mack is affordable. Woods definitely has the most non-fancy streets, and almost doesn't feel like a Pointe in parts. It's just newer.

[jaytheory]

Bloomfield Hills replaced the Pointes as the region's wealth center 30-40 years ago. They're on completely different trajectories, and not really comparable.

the region is no longer producing wealth so yes their best days are behind them.

[Hermod]

Why is 696 more "strategic"? In case you have to go to Novi or East Lansing? 94 goes through Detroit, DTW, Ann Arbor, Chicago.

When I come up to visit my son in Macomb Township [[roughly 22 Mile and Heydenreich), I go airport-I275-I696 rather than airport-I94. If I break down or have a flat, I would far rather be on I275 or I696 than I94.

[1953]

I live in Grosse Pointe and think its just fantastic. Great old homes on tree lined streets, close to the lake and downtown. There are some stuffy people there, but most are not. The stuffy ones just make you laugh.

If I could change one thing about the Grosse Pointes, it would be related to Eastland. When my wife and I want to go to a bix box retailer or chain restaurant, we usually go to Macomb Mall or Hall Road. I have followed many a Grosse Pointer on I-94 to and from those destinations over the years.

Don't get me wrong - I love the small retailers and family owned restaurants in the Pointes, but sometimes you just need cheaply made Chinese goods and low-quality mass-appeal food, and it would be nice to have better access to these things.

1953

[Ben]

Mark,
Well GP has gone down in the sense that almost every resident has lost significant value on their house in the last 20 years. People still buy houses here, a lot of doctors for St. John and people that work downtown and have kids. The mega mansions are having a very hard time selling. In fact one of my favorite houses is 211 Vendome which has had a very hard time selling. People mostly send their kids to public schools, they are good if you are a good parent to your kids and push them for the best. Some of the wealthiest people go to University Liggett School which I think offers a pretty good education. My kids went to St. Peter and Bishop Gallagher in Harper Woods and I went to Notre Dame myself. I feel like the WASP factor is harmful because people don't feel like they would fit in in Grosse Pointe.

[Ben]

Bham,
I agree, although I feel like the part of GPW I live in has more in common with the Shores as opposed to the rest of the Woods.

[JBMcB]

I am not slamming areas, we just are city people so hell yes we returned to our roots quickly. Detroit is my home. It just feels real.

I don't mean to rag on you or anything, you are entitled to live anywhere you like. But - you wanted to live in the 'city' so you moved across Mack to EEV? Is there that much difference in a few hundred yards?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Bloomfield Hills replaced the Pointes as the region's wealth center 30-40 years ago. They're on completely different trajectories, and not really comparable.

Really? I mean, is this news? Like who cares if the Bloomies have replaced the Pointes. People need a roof over their heads, regardless where and if they can pay for it.

[Bham1982]

Bham,
I agree, although I feel like the part of GPW I live in has more in common with the Shores as opposed to the rest of the Woods.

Yeah, at least from an outsiders perspective, it seems that pricing isn't really super-correlated with which municipality, but rather the quality of the street and distance from either the lake and Detroit. The Shores is most expensive because it's basically 100% along the lake.

[4V4DMD]

GP has the most incredible housing stock in Metro Detroit, off the water and for the best prices. Being 15 minutes from downtown, its the perfect suburb to accept the aging generation of young professionals that loves a downtown Detroit.

Grosse Pointe will never be as wealthy as before [[as the Nation or State) but it is and will always be a strong, wonderful place to live if you're over 30 years old.

[jt1]

That's what I was thinking. I always thought of the Pointes as anti-trendy.

The Bloomfields and nearby areas are where you see all the bling. Bentleys, Ferraris and other high end vehicles are common in good weather. Women wear Louboutins when they go out, and four-figure purses are the norm. Obviously not everyone is like that [[I personally know few people like that) but you see it everywhere you go. Scary thing is that a lot of these blingy people actually don't make that much money.

Compare the scene at Papa Joes in Birmingham, with its perpetually tanned Real Housewife types and "casual cafe" with $30 entrees

Well, with that picture, I can't imagine any place in Michigan less appealing to me that the Bloomfields or Birmingham. I think I'd rather live next to a crack house than next to people that live in SE Michigan and think $1,000+ purses are necessary to keep up with the Jones

[CleveBill]

I've noticed that people from the Grosse Pointes will describe themselves as being "from Detroit," but folk from Birmingham or Bloomfield want to make a distinction between themselves and the city; which is ironic seeing that outside of Michigan everyone knows the name Grosse Pointe, but no one without tied to the Detroit metro area has even hear of the B's

[milt721]

When I come up to visit my son in Macomb Township [[roughly 22 Mile and Heydenreich), I go airport-I275-I696 rather than airport-I94. If I break down or have a flat, I would far rather be on I275 or I696 than I94.

Wow! That is really out of the way. About 12 miles out of the way in each direction.

[GP For Life]

I think the Pointes will always be fine and relatively desirable, but I do think the home values have suffered relative to Oakland County [[though admit I'm biased). Compare GP Park to Birmingham. I live in Birmingham and will admit the architecture in GP Park is 100 times better. No tacky mega-bigfoot homes, and relatively few bungalows/future teardown jobs. Yet Birmingham real estate values blow away the Pointes. I think, very conservatively, per square foot values run 2 to 2.5 times those of the Pointes. In Birmingham, 500k will not give you a family sized house and definitely nothing renovated and non-bungalow; in the Pointes it will give you something big, beautiful and distinctive, and in move-in condition.

Bham gets it. Oakland County in general has some architectural abominations that merit trials at The Hague and there’s some gorgeous classic architecture as well. The prevalence of architectural atrocities is far-lower in the Pointes.

GP is located on one of the nicest freshwater lakes in the country for pleasure boating and part of the world’s largest freshwater systems. We can be at our boats in five minutes and on the water in ten. Our parks are essentially private clubs unto themselves, with comparable amenities and private marinas.

Another thing that’s oft overlooked is that GP is legitimately a community. Kids ride their bikes to school, to the corner store, and to the parks. We don’t have a highway running through the middle of town [[which is nice, but is a drawback too) separating us from each other.

GP people, by and large, are more polite. I work in Bloomfield Hills and when I hold the door open for ladies and say please and thank you, people look at me strangely. Birmingham has less of those people, but in BH I am clearly an outlier.

Grosse Pointe has more of a classic sense of style as well. You see far less $300 jeans and Ed Hardy t-shirts and far more polos and pearls, as we say.

Yes, there’s less of a nightlife in GP, but then I can be downtown in ten minutes. I would also argue that the Park strip is coming back and with the increase economic activity in the area soon we’ll be back to the days of weekend evenings looking like mardi gras.

Is there less shopping in GP? Absolutely, go to Sommerset around Christmas time and then tell me you’re not thankful that it is 30 minutes away. The only thing worse than a mall at Christmas is listening to people complain about driving there the rest of the year. You can have your shopping and droves of aspirational undesirables clogging your roadways, thank you very much.

GP is far more tied to downtown than BH and Birmingham, which is tied far more to the faceless glass towers of Troy. Right now, I would be short suburban office space and long downtown office space, if I were looking at the trend. As for the demographic picture of GP [[BH and Birmingham, as well) having masses of old people, just look at our county’s demographics. It was just worse here because for the last eight years young people couldn’t get a job in SE Michigan to save their life. That trend is starting to reverse.

By the way, someone mentioned something about liquid wealth in GP. I will say this, one wealth management office from a bulge bracket bank is the second-largest in the world as measured by assets under management. There’s an astounding amount wealth in SE Michigan in general and GP in particular, it’s just that there wasn’t any wealth generation for the last ten years.

Don’t count out GP, or BH and Birmingham. Though, I would say Birmingham is probably overvalued right now from a market prospective, otherwise I like that town. BH is just ghastly and filled with people of poor breeding and even worse bearing. I wouldn’t live there if you paid me.