Grosse Pointe vs. Bloomfield Hills: best days behind them?

[rb336]

Jobs and amenities, obviously. 696 is the main east-west corridor for the region..

No. Unless you are limiting the region to SCS to Novi
696: SCS/Warren/MH/RO/SF/FH
96: Detroit/Livonia/Plymouth/FH/Novi
94 [[just from SCS): SCS/the Pointes/Detroit/Hamtramck/Detroit/Dearborn/Taylor/Romulus/Ypsi/Ann Arbor

[Detroitnerd]

Ferndale enjoys a very strategic location in the heart of the region. You can use 696, Woodward, Lodge and I-75 to go almost anywhere. In contrast, the Pointes are far from everything except for downtown, and not along any freeways.

First off, the Lodge goes nowhere near Ferndale. But I bet lots of folks in Ferndale wish it did. 'Cause, you see, my point is that I know a lot of youngish people, mostly couples, many with children, who love Detroit but want a house beyond the city line. And I believe that plays into why they choose Ferndale, which, as you point out, is a hop-skip-and-jump from downtown Detroit.

I could be wrong, but I've generally thought that the appeal of the Pointes had to do with exclusivity and disconnectedness from Detroit in general.

[Bham1982]

I could be wrong, but I've generally thought that the appeal of the Pointes had to do with exclusivity and disconnectedness from Detroit in general.

I don't understand why the relative appeal would be based on isolation from things. Obviously the Pointes are desirable, but I think most people would agree there's a big difference in property values between the Pointes and the Oakland County wealth centers.

If it isn't the relative isolation from amenities, and then relative proximity to undesirables, then why do the property values lag? Is it just people have the WASP image and perceive it as stuffy?

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

If you live anywhere along the Woodward corridor from Ferndale up to the Bloomfields, you have the widest array of "stuff" at your fingertips relative to anywhere else in MI, which is why property values are higher.

[Bham1982]

First off, the Lodge goes nowhere near Ferndale. .

The Lodge is less than 5 minutes from Ferndale. Less than two miles away; just take 8 Mile.

[Detroitnerd]

The Lodge is less than 5 minutes from Ferndale. Less than two miles away; just take 8 Mile.

If you live at Woodward Heights, to get to the Lodge you have to drive down to Woodward, take Woodward over to the Lodge, drive quite some time, get to the left, and, at any busy time of day, spend about 10 minutes in the left merging your way onto Lodge southbound. Is that "convenient"? Hey, if you think it is, fine, Ferndale is the Azores of the Woodward axis.

But all this "strategic" claptrap seems a silly way to call a spade a spade: Ferndale is close to Detroit. And that's my point, really. Ferndale has plenty of residents who are especially engaged with the city but, for various reasons, wanted to live outside it. Trust me on this, they're not in Ferndale to be closer to Somerset. They're on the cusp of the city because they want that proximity to Detroit.

As to the matter of finding value in isolation from things, that relates to a point I was trying to make earlier: I think younger people don't want to be isolated from things. I think older people didn't mind being in their bubble. So I don't think we disagree there.

That said, the way you word things like "proximity to undesirables" is one of the most disgusting things I think I've read on this board. I've been stranded in tough neighborhoods before and found ... nice people ... who helped me ... without question. There are good people and bad people everywhere. When you talk about "undesirables," I know exactly which kind you are. I'm actually very glad you would never live in my neighborhood.

[jt1]

I don't understand why the relative appeal would be based on isolation from things. Obviously the Pointes are desirable, but I think most people would agree there's a big difference in property values between the Pointes and the Oakland County wealth centers.

If it isn't the relative isolation from amenities, and then relative proximity to undesirables, then why do the property values lag? Is it just people have the WASP image and perceive it as stuffy?

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

If you live anywhere along the Woodward corridor from Ferndale up to the Bloomfields, you have the widest array of "stuff" at your fingertips relative to anywhere else in MI, which is why property values are higher.

I'm really starting to think that Bham is a paid shill for Oakland County. Heaven forbid you say anything negative about the fancy part of OC.

We get it, you think that Birmingham and the Bloomfields are the greatest thing in the world. That doesn't mean that no other places offer what others are looking for. I have a feeling, given the wealth and relatively frugal ways of the few GPers I know that they aren't interested in having a store that offers 100 varieties of specialty olive oil.

[antongast]

I don't mean to rag on you or anything, you are entitled to live anywhere you like. But - you wanted to live in the 'city' so you moved across Mack to EEV? Is there that much difference in a few hundred yards?

Great question! Let's talk about this.

Say I buy a house on Alter Road, show up at GPP city hall and request a Grosse Pointe parks pass, because hey, I'm pretty close, right? My neighbors across the alley can use the parks, so why can't I? How much difference can there be in a few hundred feet?

Now let's say I have some kids, and I'm interested in enrolling them in Grosse Pointe schools. I've heard they don't accept out-of-district students, and technically my house is zoned for DPS, but I see my neighbors across the alley sending their kids to Grosse Pointe schools, and I live awfully close to them. Is there that much difference in a few hundred feet?

After the smashing success of these two efforts, I really get to thinking. My house is very architecturally similar to my neighbor's house across the alley, and they have very similar amenities. But I just put a new roof on mine, and my neighbor's roof looks a little raggedy. So I decide to do her a good turn, and offer her a straight-up trade: her raggedy-roofed house on Wayburn for my immaculately-roofed house on Alter. Of course, she enthusiastically agrees, because there just isn't that much difference in a few hundred feet. From that point forward, she and I will be fast friends, and we'll meet at My Dad's Bar every Tuesday and she'll regale me with stories of the rapid and efficient police response she gets from Grosse Pointe Park Police whenever she tells them that she's just a few hundred feet outside their jurisdiction.

[bailey]

As a relatively young person who has lived in major cities, I want a place with good restaurants, groceries and services. I don't perceive the Pointes as a place where I'm going to be able to find, say, a selection of imported items in grocers, or contemporary furniture stores, or places to go out in free time.

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

[jt1]

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

How dare you. BHam knows all and there is no single chance that anyone under the age of 50 would choose GP [[or anywhere else for that matter) over Birmingham or the Bloomfields [[except the nasty parts close to Pontiac)

[Bham1982]

From what you're posting here, its clear it's been decades since you've done anything but drive by the exits for GP on 94.

stop posting on this topic. you are posting straight up, unadulterated, bullshit.

Translation- I don't have anything specific to rebut, and realize most of this under discussion is true [[or at least perceived to be true) so please stop posting and potentially harming my property values.

If the Pointes have similar shops, restaurants and services, as in Oakland County, and we're all lying, then set us straight. If the Pointes have similar price appreciation as other areas in recent years, and are unaffected by location, then put us in our place and post the data.

BTW, I like the Pointes, and may one day live there. The architectural quality, on average, is the best in Michigan, and if I ever worked downtown I would consider it. If dowtown ever truly revitalizes the Pointes will probably be huge beneficiaries, and will strengthen relative to other areas.

[Bham1982]

We get it, you think that Birmingham and the Bloomfields are the greatest thing in the world.

No, that would be you, projecting.

I don't particularly like Birmingham. I don't own in Birmingham, and probably won't buy there, as I consider it overvalued. It works for me, right now. Really the only positives for me are convenient location, walkable, and close to friends/associates. Downtown is annoying and the neighborhoods are being destroyed by crap developments. Taxes are too high, and services aren't better than neighboring communities. The library sucks.

Bloomfield Hills is beautiful around Cranbrook and the lakes, but I like it even less than Birmingham. It's too isolated from stuff once you get to far west, and generally too old and conservative for my tastes. Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

[GP For Life]

No, that would be you, projecting.

I don't particularly like Birmingham. I don't own in Birmingham, and probably won't buy there, as I consider it overvalued. It works for me, right now. Really the only positives for me are convenient location, walkable, and close to friends/associates. Downtown is annoying and the neighborhoods are being destroyed by crap developments. Taxes are too high, and services aren't better than neighboring communities. The library sucks.

Bloomfield Hills is beautiful around Cranbrook and the lakes, but I like it even less than Birmingham. It's too isolated from stuff once you get to far west, and generally too old and conservative for my tastes. Fantastic library though, and I would consider it if I had real money and wanted to isolate myself.

Sounds like someone is going to move to GP.

[JBMcB]

The library sucks.

Seriously?!? Seemed pretty damned nice to me.

[DTWflyer]

I do not understand a lot of the statements being thrown around in this thread.
1. Realize they everyone has different tastes and priorities in choosing a community and home to live in; what you may like someone else may not and vice-versa
2. People at different life stages have different priorities in home selection [[Grosse Pointe or Bloomfield may not appeal to young professionals, but they appeal to older families
3. Not everyone works downtown or not everyone works in Oakland County

The argument is silly because both are highly desirable communities.

[DetroitPlanner]

You people amuse me you argue like the Sneetches with stars upon thars or ours.

[poobert]

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...9#.UbtYsefVAaC

You've got new money jerks verses old money jerks. Pick your poison.

I'd take GP any day of the week though.

As sumas brought up though, GP truly is the Land of Backhanded compliments. Lots of nice people there but Christ there are also a lot of damned blue-haired snobs. I cross Mack and rob the shit out of them every few weeks just to keep them on their toes.

[Hermod]

GP didn't develop a large shopping district because the uber-wealthy could just run down Jefferson to downtown Detroit when they needed to shop. With the decline of downtown, they now have to go further afield [[OC and MC) to do their shopping.

[Detroitnerd]

I was outside Santa Cruz, Calif., once, taking a ride up a mountain in an old train to see redwoods. I was talking with my girlfriend about the DIA, and an older couple got my attention, saying they heard me talking about Detroit. They identified themselves as residents of Chicago, formerly of Grosse Pointe. I said I was a west-sider, and probably knew Chicago better than the Grosse Pointes.

We didn't, um, talk much after that exchange.

[Gistok]

I don't think that's true. 696, the most strategic freeway in the region, forms the northern border of Ferndale, and is accessed by fast-moving Woodward. I-94, nowhere near as strategic, doesn't run in the Pointes, is accessed via much slower local roads, and sits in the ghetto. And Ferndale is surrounded by "useful things" on most sides [[downtown Royal Oak, people's jobs in Southfield, etc.) while the Pointes surrounded by water to the east, slums to the west, and perfectly fine but anonymous Macomb bungalows to the north. Where are the shops, restaurants and services?

Bham1982.... sorry but I call BS on that claim.... the 48224 zipcode... the Detroit one you have to drive partway thru to get to get to I-94 has Cadieux, Outer Drive/Whittier, Moross and [[in 48236) Vernier to get to I-94... last time I checked the Detroit part of that area may now be majority African-American... but I would hardly call it Ghetto. And your I-696 claim is also rather spurious... half of it goes thru Macomb County?? The folks in the Pointes have quite a bit of shopping choices along Mack Ave, and farther north, along Harper and Jefferson Ave. It's not the wasteland you make it out to be. Only thing missing is an upscale mall.

[casscorridor]

Grosse Pointe is older and more urban than Bloomfield Hills.

Grosse Pointe is more GM people while Bloomfield Hills is more Chrysler.

Grosse Pointe doesn't need to be "close to stuff" in Metro Detroit suburbs. Everywhere is still accessible by car if need be.

Grosse Pointe is on Lake St Claire. Bloomfield Hills has hills.

Bloomfield Hills is close to Birmingham and Royal Oak and Pontiac.

Grosse Pointe is close to Downtown.

Neither Grosse Pointe nor Bloomfield Hills have much culture. This isn't New York City, but the Industrial Midwest.

The few blocks that make up the shopping/dinning districts of Birmingham, Royal Oak or Ferndale pale in comparison to the countless similar blocks in real cities that don't abandon and neglect their central city.

[stasu1213]

Grosse Pointe borders Detroit unlike other upper incomed suburban cities. That is Grosse Pointe's downfall. Grosse Pointe should be more multiracial but the same mindset.

[sumas]

That was a very sweet post. Thank you much. The place next door to our south may or may be up for auction. Really not a good bet. It was actually the original Verheyden funeral parlor. Sadly bad shape. Our next door neighbor on the north has an amazing beautiful home. Our area is is like all Detroit, block by block. We really do have great neighbors. Our old homes fantastic. More than happy to give you a tour of our sweet old home and stroll our neighborhood. We are city folk, not all is bright and pretty but we are happy and like our life.

[JenniferL]

The Lodge is less than 5 minutes from Ferndale. Less than two miles away; just take 8 Mile.

Most Ferndalers take I-75 when they drive downtown Detroit. One can also go straight down Woodward. As for the Lodge, the easiest way to access it from Ferndale is to take Livernois south, drive through Detroit [[nice neighborhoods) for a couple of miles and then onto the Lodge just south of the University of Detroit.

[sumas]

I don't mean to rag on you or anything, you are entitled to live anywhere you like. But - you wanted to live in the 'city' so you moved across Mack to EEV? Is there that much difference in a few hundred yards?

Actually yes, huge difference. I grew up in EEV, moved back to care for my aging mother. Owned and maintained a home in Islandview but thought family came first. Live here now and yes significant differences between burb and city. Too bad I am not a song writer, I give no excuses for being a city girl but wish I could write that song.

My 200 hundred yards were temporary, try 7 years of home hospice. Sucked but then you "don't want to rag on me" EEV is a great community. Loved it, love my Islandview Village much better! City rules!

[Cliffy]

the region is no longer producing wealth so yes their best days are behind them.

The wealth is still here. You just have to find it.