United Artists Theatre

**Gistok** · October-13-09, 11:36 PM

Thanks for the building exterior updates folks! And thanks for the info on the United Artists organ. I cannot find any mention of a Detroit United Artists Theatre organ in all my movie palace documentation.

56packman would know the model type of the UA organ.

As for organs leaving Detroit... the Publix 1 Wurlitzer organs of the State [[Fillmore) and Capitol [[Detroit Opera House) were long ago dismembered and parts sold to theatres on the west coast. Parts of those 2 organs are now in the Castro Theatre in San Francisco, and across the bay in the Oakland Paramount.

The two organs at the Fox are still in place and well taken care of. Only 4 theatres in the world are known to have had an independent lobby organ, as well as one in the auditorium. The Detroit Fox is the only theatre remaining that has them both still "in situ". The Moller 3/21 lobby organ and massive Wurlitzer 4/36 auditorium organ [[with an additional slave console up in the balcony) are still there.

Besides the Barton Organ at the Redford, the other major theatre organ still in Detroit is the unique one of a kind 4/34 Wurlitzer organ from the old Fisher Theatre. This organ, 8th largest theatre organ ever built by Wurlitzer, is currently at the Senate Theatre. But that organ is in danger of being lost to Detroit. Attendance at the Senate [[located on Michigan Ave. in a scary part of town) has been rather sparse... and the principal organ donor [[no pun intended) has been attempting to get it moved to Ann Arbor to a UofM site [[yet to be determined).

It would be a sad situation to lose this organ from Detroit. When the Fisher Brothers had the Fisher Building/Theatre built back in 1928, they requested that the theatre organ have many of the features of a church organ... since several of the 7 Fisher brothers played the organ at their family church. So the Wurlitzer Organ Co. [[of North Tonawanda NY) built a special organ just for the Mayanesque style Fisher Theatre. The organ console still has its' colorful Mayan design [[with Mayan god cartouches) with its' bright colors. It is doubtful if any theatre organ console in the country was as colorful and exotic as the Fisher organ console. [[at the moment I cannot locate a pic of the wonderful Fisher console...)

During our August Preservation Wayne theatre tours, I had lunch with Karen DiChiera, the ex-wife [[in good standing) of MOT General Director David DiChiera, and she herself is a MOT director. I mentioned that the Detroit Opera House and the Fisher Organ would be a match made in heaven... since the massive organ grilles at the DOH were the largest in Detroit. And 56packman mentioned to me before that the [[smaller) Wurlitzer organ originally located at the Capitol Theatre [[now DOH) provided the best sound of any organ in Detroit. It seems that acoustics and organ grilles play a more important role than organ size [[LOL...). Karen DiChiera was interested... and this interest has been forwarded to one of the folks involved with Senate Theatre Fisher Organ. I'm hoping for the best.

As for the Detroit United Artists... the organ grilles there are very large as well... and I would assume that a theatre organ within the UA could likely sould very nice indeed.

Hmmmm.... I forgot about a 4th large theatre type organ still remaining in Detroit... the large Aolean Skinner [[sp?) organ at Ford Auditorium is still there.... wouldn't it make a nice addition to a restored United Artists....

**1KielsonDrive** · October-14-09, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

Well, with multiple sources saying that the office tower is being renovated with a governmental tenant in mind, there is little reason to believe that what is going on down there on a daily basis is not part of a renovation.

I'll stick with Skipper's Rule #1. Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years. This a rule devised, in particular, for Detroit. There was extended work on the Statler for months, if not years. What happened to the Statler? I saw a couple of big time presentations for renovations to the Tuller. It was to become the Golden Harp Castle. What happened? It's gone. We could belabor this one. How do we know, other than rumours, there's a governmental tenant? How do we know, other than rumours, this is a renovation and not a stabilization? What did J.C.Beal say about it ? Considering it's Illitch's building, I wouldn't count on any type of renovations. He's not trustworthy. And he's certainly not a preservationist. I'm happy it's being stabilized. I'll be happier when it actually get's rebuilt, if it ever happens. Just so you don't get your heart broken - don't count on it.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-14-09, 12:05 AM

The Grellas were from New York City.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

I'll stick with Skipper's Rule #1. Don't believe it until you've seen it and its been there for a few years. This a rule devised, in particular, for Detroit. There was extended work on the Statler for months, if not years. What happened to the Statler? I saw a couple of big time presentations for renovations to the Tuller. It was to become the Golden Harp Castle. What happened? It's gone. We could belabor this one. How do we know, other than rumours, there's a governmental tenant? How do we know, other than rumours, this is a renovation and not a stabilization? What did J.C.Beal say about it ? Considering it's Illitch's building, I wouldn't count on any type of renovations. He's not trustworthy. And he's certainly not a preservationist. I'm happy it's being stabilized. I'll be happier when it actually get's rebuilt, if it ever happens. Just so you don't get your heart broken - don't count on it.

I only hold out hope now only because of that email I got and the footer reading "renovation" etc etc

**Gistok** · October-14-09, 01:06 AM

1kielsondrive, besides decorative awnings... I'm unaware of any work that was done on the Statler from when it closed in 1975 until it was "prepared for demolition" a few years ago.

As for the Tuller... the demise of the Tuller mirrors in many ways the loss of the all but the facade of the Fine Arts Building. The older north section of the Tuller unfortunately also had internal beam supports that started sagging/collapsing before any redevelopment ideas could be implemented. These beams may have been wooden [[like the Fine Arts).

As for Ilitch... besides the Fox restoration and saving the Masonic from certain closure... I agree that they haven't done much from a preservation standpoint. And the many demolitions that they have done certainly doesn't help their cause any.

But I think that the jury is still out on their eventual legacy [[mixed at best)... depending on what they do with the United Artists complex, the Iodent Building, the Moose Lodge and the Fine Arts facade. I am of the opinion that much of this is delayed until they've acquired all the land needed for their prefered arena location [[they're not there yet)... not to mention the economy.

It will be interesting to see if a United Artists stabalization [[versus restoration/renovation) includes... besides the new roof... refacing the southwest wall [[along Clifford) missing much of its' brickwork.

**gumby** · October-14-09, 05:43 AM

Gistok,

I think you mean Detroit Life Building not Iodent. the Iodent from what I understand is owned by Sean Harrington, a guy who actually does stuff with his buildings.

**56packman** · October-14-09, 08:16 AM

The UA Wurlitzer was a model 260 special, The "special" part being that it had optional brass trumpet and brass saxophone ranks and the "economy" 6 note 32' diaphone pipes with the flapper door to tune them. 6 pipes did the work of 12, there was a flapper door at the top of each pipe that opened pneumatically when the shorter note was played, C became C# etc.
I helped move those pipes from a strorage facility in Troy in 1977, they are now on the built-up instrument in the Berkley Community auditorium in California.
I saw the UA Wurlitzer in place in 1975, before it was removed. Except for the two brass ranks that were stolen it was in pristine untouched condition. It was restored at a shop in Troy by a friend of mine and was installed in the "Pied Piper Pizza Peddler" at the Universal Mall, Warren, in the early 70s. After that restaurant tanked it was acquired by the Long Center in Layafette.
I have recordings of Edward Kassow playing the UA in 1952 and Ed Gress playing it in 1954, it got out well, and sounded good.
The organ in Ford Auditorium is not a theatre organ, it is a classical/concert organ that happens to be located in a theater. It is going to be a hardship case wherever it goes next, given the trouble they had at Ford auditorium and what they had to do to make it be heard in that mid-century acoustical deathtrap. We'll see what happens after WCF leaves this mortal coil.

Toolbox · October-14-09, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

I just got this interesting reply from the JC Beal construction company.

"At our clients request we can provide no information regarding this building.
Fred J. Beal
President
JC Beal Construction, Inc. "

Those Illitch's sure like to keep things mysterious, though the footer of this email sounds promising!!!
"JC Beal Construction Inc; your restoration, general building renovation, and tenant build-out specialists"

Were you at all suprised by this response? I'm not.

Information USED to be shared freely by some of the companies in town till some fourmers abused the info and badgered the company reps.

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

I only hold out hope now only because of that email I got and the footer reading "renovation" etc etc

They also do pre-demo abatement work. Make you feel any better?

Stick to humping a bridge owners leg.

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 11:09 AM

Or how about you stop hiding behind your anonymity and go out and do something, like learn some respect for people?

Instead of watching people speculate about things, I got out and asked questions, and that's the reply I got, doesn't stop me from looking deeper, but this is why people don't tell you guys things anymore, because you don't respect it. I'm tempted to keep my mouth shut on anything I hear in the future as well.

**Gistok** · October-14-09, 11:26 AM

Thanks Gumby.... got my buildings mixed up... the Detroit Life Building [[with its' stalled renovations) is correct.

Thanks also 56packman. I remember you mentioning in another thread that the Aeolean Skinner organ at Ford Auditorium had to be modified due to the poor acoustics of the auditorium. It would probably sound deafening in an acoustically superior location such as the UA. Also, I imagine that there would have to be quite a bit of replacement work of parts that haven't been maintained after many years of non-use.

So you think that as long as WCF [[William Clay Ford Sr.) is still around... Ford Auditorium will still be around...

EastSider · October-14-09, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

...but this is why people don't tell you guys things anymore...

What's that supposed to mean? You somehow better than us'n folk up around here?

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

What's that supposed to mean? You somehow better than us'n folk up around here?

Nope, just referring to "you guys" as in the forumers. I'd love to share what information I have with you, but if people don't want to hear it then forget it.

**Gistok** · October-14-09, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Toolbox

Were you at all suprised by this response? I'm not.

Information USED to be shared freely by some of the companies in town till some fourmers abused the info and badgered the company reps.

Stick to humping a bridge owners leg.

Mcsdetroitfriends... remember when I was ROFLMAO over your comments about you going to the Lions game, and stayed in Matty Marouns private box. Well now you know why I was laughing!

It'll be a constant source of sour grapes on this forum...

It's comments like these that makes people go loopy and suddenly they think that you now have a chip on your shoulder and are better than anyone else... and they also often will bring up that fact at the drop of a hat.

Toolbox... people in the know don't share facts with folks on this forum NOT because of getting simple EMAIL inquiries... but because other posters on this forum are so damn rude. Funny that from behind a keyboard people get so brave.

The folks here have badgered Steve Wilson, Bill Shea, and numerous othe people in the news who have posted here. And one wonders why they don't post here more often??

Mcsdetroitfriends, don't be bothered by the sniping... and don't let it stop you from posting what you will...

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the words Gistok, I'll keep it in mind, and of course I definitely understand my project and work will bring those comments, sometimes they keep me humble, other times they're just obnoxious. The obnoxious one's ill take offense to, and that's where my threat comes from. Though at the same time I know a lot of people who simply lurk these forums would be disappointed to not get information, which isn't that the purpose of some forums, to share and gather information? I think people should keep posting for those people who silently appreciate it, not those who get a kick out of internet anonymity.

Toolbox · October-14-09, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend

Or how about you stop hiding behind your anonymity and go out and do something, like learn some respect for people?

Like lead a bunch of kids into a building that is contaminated without the proper PPE? And then post pictures of it on the web? OSHA had a shit fit when they saw that.

I do a ton of things to help Detroit but I don't need to blow myself to earn the respect of others. ThinkDetroit-PAL[[just got home from soccer practice), Greening of Detroit, worked on numerous home renovations in many different neighborhoods. Better check yourself before you knock what you have no clue of.

As far as anonimity plenty of people know who I am around here.

**Kimberlaina** · October-14-09, 09:14 PM

I just found another page with some recent photos and information on it, posted by an urban explorer. It looks like it's from 2009.

http://onlyndetroit.com/html/decay/o...tedartists.htm

**mcsdetroitfriend** · October-14-09, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by Toolbox

Like lead a bunch of kids into a building that is contaminated without the proper PPE? And then post pictures of it on the web? OSHA had a shit fit when they saw that.
.

I was just as much a volunteer during that operation as those kids, it was only afterwards that I became more involved because I saw that things that could be done, weren't, etc. I found out about it through facebook and showed up, because I would rather not climb through a dark environment where there are [[were) elevator shafts, glass partitions, metal baggage carts, and who knows what else, to get in to a building.

I'm not saying i do much for detroit, i live an hour southwest, but as far as being able to find information about things that obviously interest me as well as many others I can do that, either being there in the thick of it, or from afar.

Kimberlaina thanks for the link! onlyndetroit.com is a great source, though since it mentions the Kilpatrick administration, I'm thinking it might be from last year

**esp1986** · October-14-09, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kimberlaina

I just found another page with some recent photos and information on it, posted by an urban explorer. It looks like it's from 2009.

http://onlyndetroit.com/html/decay/o...tedartists.htm

These pictures are from before 2006, when the Super Bowl was in Detroit, and all of the windows were pained black. Also, the marquis was removed/fell off in 2005 or 2006. A new roof was put on the entire building in 2007, this is before all of that.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-14-09, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Mcsdetroitfriends, don't be bothered by the sniping... and don't let it stop you from posting what you will...

Thanks Gistok. That's the spirit of DY, Mcsdetroitfriends. Everyone gets bent out of shape sometime and some people get bent out of shape everytime. I don't worry about the everytimers. Say what you have to say.

**Kimberlaina** · October-15-09, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

These pictures are from before 2006, when the Super Bowl was in Detroit, and all of the windows were pained black. Also, the marquis was removed/fell off in 2005 or 2006. A new roof was put on the entire building in 2007, this is before all of that.

That makes sense. Must just be that the copyright was updated. I found it interesting that they put scaffolding in there, apparently to try to secure the place.

**esp1986** · October-15-09, 10:39 AM

Found this on minutes from a city council committee meeting on March 17, 2008:

Submitting report relative to request for DEFERRAL OF DEMOLITION ORDER on property located at 150 Bagley #101 and #102. [[Recent inspection revealed that the building to be secure and appears to be sound and repairable. Therefore it is recommended that demolition be DEFERRED for a period of three months subject to conditions of order.) [[REFERRED TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY STANDING COMMITTEE ON 3-17-08)

So the building was inspected a year and a half ago and found to be safe... the link is here:

http://www.detroitmi.gov/legislative...al03-17-08.pdf

**Gistok** · October-17-09, 12:50 PM

Thanks for the research Esp1986!

Looks like it's off the citys demo list.

I doubt that that removal would have happened without the concurrence of the Ilitch organization.

Just another little piece of the puzzle that makes it look more and more as though the UA Building/Theatre are going to be around for some time... in whatever condition....

**Gistok** · October-17-09, 01:12 PM

This probably deserves a separate thread, but until more details come out... I'll post it here....

I know that some of you think that I am overly obsessive about the beauty and yes... ornate plasterwork of Detroits great cathedrals of entertainment... the downtown movie palaces. I do admit that I get a little overzealous [[

) about the grandeur of even the faded glory of the United Artists and especially the remains of the former Michigan Theatre.

Well I think I stand absolved of my obsession sins... right now photographers are taking images of Detroits movie palaces for an article in the National Geographic on Detroits historic downtown theatres, set to publish at a yet to be determined date.

Apparently the National Geographic feels that while most other American cities pounded to rubble their greatest glories to cinema.... Detroit did a relatively good job of keeping many of their downtown "architecture of fantasy" relatively intact... and these survivors will be spotlighted for all Americans to see...

That's all I know at the moment, and I cannot reference my source!

Lorax · October-17-09, 06:59 PM

Gistok, we've never spoken formally, but I too share the love of interior plaster ornamentation- I'm the one who posted the pages from the Voight catalogue recently.

It's amazing news about the NatGeo article coming out!

Short of the Michigan, Shubert [[Orpheum), Madison, Oriental, and a handful of others, Detroit really does have is't "act" together, so to speak.

I still say a renovation of The Michigan is possible some day, and if I had won the Florida lotto recently, it would have been affordable with money to spare!

In fact, my parents saw an unknown Doris Day front one of the big bands in either 1947 or 1948 at the Downtown Theatre, which I believe was the later name of the Oriental, but I don't know for sure, maybe you can correct me on this.

My folks both remarked that this youngster, Miss Day, was going to be a star someday!

The Cinderella was a favorite of mine, as were the Esquire and the Vogue, all of which I attended in my youth. Being raised in Grosse Pointe I remember the Punch & Judy as a very staid, colonial revival theatre, worthy of saving, but sadly is an office building today.

**Whitehouse** · October-17-09, 08:01 PM

Hello everybody.

I just registered. I'm not a Detroit resident, not even American. Never been to the place but internet is the great equalizer. I live in the Netherlands but I've been in Detroit, albeit virtually. And thanks to sites like this one.

I'm deeply fascinated by history. And the history of a city like Detroit is amazing. And if this theatre is resurected from the claws of death I know what effort went into it. The pictures say it all.

And about those pictures, I can say:
Flickr is your friend!

A simple search gave me remarkable results.
Want to see more pictures of this theatre?
Presto!!

Just look at This picture!!

And someone above mentioned the Fisher Theatre organ but couldn't find a picture of this music machine. Well...
Schwing!!!

I'm sure This link is no secret to you but I'll post it anyway.

Earlier in the topic the UA Los Angeles was mentioned. Here are some recent pictures of this "wedding cake".

This is my very first post in this forum. Hope you like it.

Edit:
Found some more great stuff! Here's a video about an urban exploration inside the theatre. Must be early in the moring, hardly any traffic on the streets.

More youtube!!
worldpremiere of " anatomy of a murder" featuring Lee Remick. In the clip you can see the marquee, which must have been finished recently, in full glory! It's exactly 50 years ago since this Otto Preminger motion picture has been released.

Rock video by DC Drive, recorded in the UA Detroit only 18 years ago. See what it looks now...