United Artists Theatre

[buckster1986]

I'm heading down to the Tigers game tonight. I'll snap a few pictures before the sun goes down.

[DetroitUA]

Are there photos of the outer lobby? I've always wondered what that looks like. Nice photos of the Rotunda. Can't wait to see this restored!

[buckster1986]

Took me a little longer....but here are the pictures I took. Now there are two sets of new[[er) windows on the building.

[DetroitDad]

Those are a lot of flights of stairs to haul equipment up.

Cough, cough

[rjlj]

Who said adaptive reuse is not possible? It happens elsewhere.


http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/0...palace.php?o=1

[Whitehouse]

Who said adaptive reuse is not possible? It happens elsewhere.


http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/0...palace.php?o=1

I hate to think that the UA theatre might now looks like this.


Edit:
Come to think of it, it moght not be a bad thing if it looked like this. Let's face it, a lot of features in the theater are beyond saving and a Dutch saying says, "Soft surgeons create stinking wounds."

[stinkytofu]

Nothing really new, but I walked by today at lunch and I could see someone wandering around the eighth floor or so and a bunch of stuff was being thrown down the chute. Something is definitely going on.

On another note, I know Shield's in the Kales Building has been rumbled about forever, but that may be happening as well. Both the southeast and southwest [[perhaps another business as well?) first floor spots had people working away on the spaces. It wasn't just clean up - the projects seemed pretty far along.

[BrushStart]

This is quite fantastic.

[miketoronto1]

One thing I find very cool and interesting about these old theatres, are that they were for the most part located at the bottom of office buildings. Talk about mixed use.

People often say we can't put theatres or other uses into the base of skyscrapers because no one lives near them and won't go.

But people years ago went to these places eventhough they did not live a couple blocks away.
It really helped create the mixed use busy 24/7 downtown. Would be interesting to see if a building today would be built with a theatre or other nightime use in it. It seems we don't do office buildings like that anymore.

[wolverine]

It really helped create the mixed use busy 24/7 downtown. Would be interesting to see if a building today would be built with a theatre or other nightime use in it. It seems we don't do office buildings like that anymore.

They do quite a bit actually. All the AMC movie theaters near me are located between 3rd-7th floors of office, hotel, and residential highrises. It's actually dirt cheap leaseable space. The parking garages take up so much height at the back, buildings are heavily loaded at the front with retail space with excessively high ceilings, and long escalator rides up from street level. If the theater goes out of business it can suit a Best Buy, Bed Bath and Beyond, or discount department store. It's the type of stores you never want at street level, but are still desired in urban areas.

[Huggybear]

Maybe it's time to stop the let's-rebuild-a-completely-gutted-pre-Depression-theater-from-scratch-and-photos fantasy. Or put it on pause for a minute.

1. It's pretty clear that a bunch of money is going into the top floors of a building that was never fully occupied in the top floors. That should tell you that the focus of this is not restoring a theater. For all you know, the theater may be blown away like the Fine Arts was.

2. The Ilitches seems to have [[and manage) a bunch of underutilized theater properties. Are they really going to build another?

3. Downtown has a bunch of underutilized theater properties, many of which are still underutilized even after being changed into other things.

4. Downtown has been unable to support single-screen movie theaters used for that purpose since the 1970s.

5. The Ilitches do things that they think are profitable. It is not likely, given [[1)-[[4), that they will think that spending tens of millions on restoring the UA will be profitable.

So maybe, stepping back, you might surmise that getting the spitting image of the original has a big chance of not happening. It would be great if it happened, but stop counting chickens. Now, I'll put down some reasons I actually hope they do not restore the theater like the original:

1. Civic organizations and private companies have dumped millions and millions and millions of dollars into restoring historic venues. Things like the Opera House, Orchestra Hall, the Gem, Music Hall, the State/Fillmore, the DFT, and others actually need to survive. Do we really need to undermine significant investments [[and in some cases the financial well-being nonprofits) by dumping even more capacity into the market?

2. If the interior is truly trashed, why not make it into something truly usable for the tenant or some other business? You could stick a multiplex movie theater in a space that big and even keep the lobby. Or an employee auditorium.

3. You could make the argument that the architectural integrity of the theater has been so severely compromised that there is not really much point in "restoring" it. You're not really restoring it; you're replicating it with inferior workmanship and spending a ton of money in the process. The destruction of the integrity of the building was no doubt driven - even in the 1950s - by its inability to compete with more modern movie theaters. And the interior was finished off by a lack of investment driven by ongoing commercial failure.

4. Because the Ilitches have a finite amount of capital, an ultra-costly theater renovation will compete with every other one of their projects [[real or imagined), including the Fine Arts Building, a new hockey stadium, the Detroit Life building, new commercial complex in front of Comerica Park, a new building on the Madison-Lenox site, etc. I personally wouldn't care if UA continued to molder indefinitely if the other, bigger, more visible projects got done.

And my last editorial comment is that we need to stop living in a world where the only choices for action are [[a) recreating prewar Detroit and [[b) nothing [[or really just waiting for [[a) to re-materialize as if by magic).

Although there are things worth saving, the first choice above - replicating types of developments that history has proven unsustainable due to some purely nostalgic impulse [[and for which a present business case cannot be made) - is self-destructive and sells Detroit short on progress. We are sure we can't do better than simply aping a theater interior from 90 years ago? We can't use our imagination to come up with something better, not even a modern inside for an old auditorium? If this is the case, we might as well nuke the city, since our best days are inexorably behind us, and the days ahead will be a dismal exercise in structural failure.

Things change, conditions in Detroit have changed, and we need to start thinking about a functional, attractive place as much as we think about building architectural museums [[or Disneylands) out of trashed theater interiors. If historic preservation cannot be done in a way that is economically viable [[and that does not rain ruin on previous, successful preservation projects), we need to move on.

The words "lack of vision" get bandied around this site a lot - usually when people can't figure out how to re-use a historic building. But I'll put out there that if you can't possibly imagine a city different from how it is [[or was), then you're the one who is suffering from an equal lack of vision.

[Gistok]

Miketoronto1.... back in the 1920s many movie palaces [[with over 1200 seats) were built within office blocks so that they could augment the income in case the theatres weren't totally successful. This was the case with most of the downtown theatres. The exceptions being the Wilson [[Music Hall) which really had very little office space.... the Adams... which had a theatre entrance carved into an already existing building and used the "alley jumper" approach to get to the auditorium, and the Madison, which also had very little office space at the front of the theatre.

The Michigan, United Artists, State, Fox, Oriental and Capitol had significant office space.

Huggybear... I won't argue with most of the points you made.... there truly are enough theatres in the near downtown area. However, it begs the question of not only what happens to the UA auditorium, but also the National [[which received a face lift on the facade), and the former Garden Theatre up in Midtown which is being remodeled [[for whatever reason?).

The Free Press once labeled the Ilitch's as "flawed brilliance"... and I think that is a apt description.

Maybe they won't restore the theatre to its' original glory. That would probably cost about $30-$40 million... a lot of money for a company that has so many venues [[Fox at 5,174 seats, Masonic at 4,404 seats, Scottish Rite at 1, 585 seats, and MotorCity Theatre at 1,200 seats).

But since they have not gutted the theatre space... one wonders why? They did remove a lot of damaged wall rubble. Why didn't they just gut the entire inside?? Does this have something to do with a future Quicken site [[residential or commercial?). How do we know that Dan Gilbert, a great friend of Atanis Ilitch, isn't asking that the theatre be stabalized from future damage?

And when you talk about creating a modern theatre... we already have one... it's called Ford Auditorium... and nobody wants it because it's an acoustic nightmare. The UA was an acoustic gem... just ask the DSO. Have modern architects finally figured out how to create great acoustics in new theatres? Perhaps the jury is still out on that one? On the otherhand... acoustics are really only needed for symphonic and operatic uses, which I grant probably negates this argument.

For all the great points that you make about the state of the auditorium and the excess supply of theatres... there's one other thing that is baffling..... why is the 18 story UA office building even being remodeled??

It makes absolutely NO FINANCIAL SENSE to do so... especially when nearby vacant buildings [[Michigan Mutual, Whitney, Broderick, Book) that are in much better condition and could be purchased for pennies on the dollar... could be used as whatever space that the United Artists Building is being renovated for....

Therein lies the 800 pound gorrilla.... the Ilitch's!! They don't do conventional... they do things their way.... whatever sense it makes....

And as for their limited financial capabilities.... you list a lot of properties that also need "Ilitch care". But besides a new hockey barn... I don't see any of them as being bigger than the UA complex. Do they have the capital to do everything? Good question? But if Dan Gilbert is secretly involved with the UA, then I don't have a problem with that.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens... but until they gut the auditorium... I'll say a prayer for Detroit's Jewel Box... the United Artists Theatre.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings....

[BrushStart]

HuggyBear, I totally agree with you and don't realistically see the theater being restored to its original condition and purpose. Downtown already has entertainment venues that rival or surpass most cities its size, i.e. the Fox for Broadway-style shows, the Gem for smaller performances, Music Hall, an Opera House, a City Orchestra, and many other places of similar entertainment variety. The UA will be better if it is repurposed while keeping some of its 1920s glam and grandeur.

As downtown's residential population continues to grow, it needs things available in other downtowns, even if they are "entertainment" oriented. There's a lot of things that could be put into that space. Retail would be best, but if I had the money and business savvy, I would put in a Dave & Busters. It caters to young professionals and is unique enough to draw a suburban crowd. A really classy downtown bowling alley or pool hall would also be nice, especially if it had a cigar room and a winery with an executive lounge. I was also thinking that an adults only athletic club could also work. Face it, the DAC is difficult to get into and the YMCA caters to families and kids. All of those options would be appealing to offices leasing space on the upper floors.

Obviously, downtown also needs more moderately priced residential space, but for some reason, the UA would seem to make a better office building than an apartment/condo complex.

[detroitbob]

The UA Building became the home of AAA in the 1950's and was fully occupied until the move to Dearborn in the 1970's. AAA was responsible for the exterior remodeling. It was AAA that sold the pipe organ and eventually what remained of the furnishings and artwork. There were several store rooms that were loaded with furniture, drapery, including the original jeweled stage curtain all were stored away after the 1950's redo. In fact one of the stagehands that was still employed due to union contracts was fired for selling bits and pieces. I remember the organ being fired up before being removed, and although there were a lot of problems, wind noise, dead notes etc. the damn thing played, albeit horribly out of tune.

[Designerguy24]

*Bump* *Bump*

[DetroitUA]

Is there still no update on the United Artists? Surely theres some more progress to report. It's been a month since an update.

[ja!mz]

My Father had a watch repair shop in the UA building in the '50's/'60's

[Rocko]

They were sending lots of stuff down that disposal tube when I was down there just over a week ago. The work, whatever it may be, continues....

[mikeg19]

Any news or happenings with this building in the past month or is the secretive work continuing?

[esp1986]

Any news or happenings with this building in the past month or is the secretive work continuing?

Went by Sunday night... Secretive work inside continues. I could tell however, that the first floor retail space directly adjacent to the theatre entrance off of Bagley continues to receive attention. What appeared to have been either darkly painted plasterwork or perhaps even woodwork has been torn out. and the walls now appear bare. A number of lights were on, throughout about 10 different floors throughout the building. As usual, the second floor was all lit up and it looks as if work has continued on that floor. It appears the second floor is in the middle of a buildout, as there are new walls up that appear to have been painted, they are all bright white. My suspicion all along has been that the second floor will become part of a people mover station, as this was a big marketing point when this building was actively being marketed a few years back. Unfortunately, you can't tell a whole lot more than that from the street.

[Gistok]

Thanks for the info esp1986... the People Mover Station theory is intriguing when you think that a possible new future hockey arena west of Park Ave. and north of W. Adams Ave. is only a block away...

[Whitehouse]

Someone needs to make a spytrip from an elevated posisiton.




Let me think of it. I think the idea from what position that can be done will pop into my mind in a few seconds....

I found this interesting picture in this series.


Lobby in 1987.

1987. Wasn't that the year in which the Fox was renovated?



A tell-tale?

[esp1986]

Someone needs to make a spytrip from an elevated posisiton.




Let me think of it. I think the idea from what position that can be done will pop into my mind in a few seconds....

I know what you're thinking... problem is, that mode of 'elevation' moves by too fast for you to really be able to study what's happening... I stood outside for a couple minutes studying it before I really noticed a whole lot.

[Gistok]

I found this interesting picture in this series.


Lobby in 1987.

1987. Wasn't that the year in which the Fox was renovated?



A tell-tale?

That image is of the [[inner) Rotunda Lobby of the United Artists Theatre. It connects the outer lobby [[within the office tower) to the auditorium [[almost totally separate building).

The Rotunda Lobby today has the most extensive damage of any part of the United Artists Theatre. This is likely because its' roof must have been in worse condition than even the auditoriums roof. However, since each of its' sidewalls are virtually identical... any real restoration would really require only 1 extant wall of ornate plaster [[which exists today). It's ironic how the single chandelier in the rotunda lobby lies in ruins among the fallen plaster.

The UA had a Rotunda Lobby to hide the fact that the building entrance is 50 degrees out of alignment with the auditorium.

The Fox was restored by the Ilitch's in 1987-88. The UA wasn't owned by the Ilitch's until the late 1990s.

[Vitalis]

The UA thread......again. It attracts us like a moth to a flame, doesn't it. It's as though it is a touchstone for all possible discussions about Detroit - It's past glory, it's decline, the architecture, the restoration efforts, Olympia Entertainment, our dreams for the city and it's theater. Today if the theater were alive, a salemen staying at the Cadillac or coming out of Cliff Bell's could walk to the UA and see a show in as unique a setting as one could have. Who among us hasn't rebuilt Detroit in their minds, plucking buildings out of other cities and planting them in Detroit. Picking industries and businesses to relocate into downtown. Magically moving hundreds of thousands of solid citizens into the city, and breathing life back into the UA. But what I want to bring to this discussion is a young boys pleasure in seeing the theater named in a Life magazine ad for the MGM remake of "Mutiny on the Bounty" as one of the chosen roadshow venues for this premiere. The boy actually had a sense of pride reading the words: "United Artists, Detroit, Michigan." I also want to call attention to the elegant cursive script used to spell out the theater name in newspaper movie advertisements of the 50's and 60's. This very special writing of the UA name seemed to denote a sophisticated, first-class movie destination. So when the UA had become a third run movie house by the 1970's, and I went out of my way to trek downtown and slither into the drab looking theater to see "The Sand Pebbles" [[probably for the third or fourth viewing) I knew I would always be hooked on the place. And in the future when something happens on that block of Bagley Avenue, we will likely be left with a display case in some renovated or brand spanking new hallway, where photos of an old movie palace and a few fragments or artifacts of the former theater will be on view for Gistok and the rest of us.