United Artists Theatre

[OriginalG313]

I drove past the United Artists this morning and it looked like some workers were either installing new windows or cleaning the old windows. This was on the Clifford side and the workers were on the inside of the building.

[esp1986]

I drove past the United Artists this morning and it looked like some workers were either installing new windows or cleaning the old windows. This was on the Clifford side and the workers were on the inside of the building.

I had been by there over the weekend, and it looked as if some of the windows on that end had been replaced or cleaned... I think it has been obvious for a while now that the building is not coming down anytime soon. Something is going on with it, the question remains, what?

That photo by Andrew Moore is from an album on his site dated 2008-2009. A couple of prior photos surfaced on Flickr dated in March and June of 2009. Both of which showed a cleaned-up auditorium, but still with debris about the floor. This one at least shows the debris is gone.

I would have to imagine that this theater would nicely compliment the Fox for the Ilitches. They seem to be trying to market the building to a major tenant. If I were them, I would renovate the auditorium and retail levels, and use that to impress people and generate interest in the building. The building at least needs to be habitable before it generates a whole lot of interest. Take, for example, 1001 Woodward, Jim Pappas bought it in 2008, and has spent the last two years not only marketing it, but also fixing it up, such as upgrading the air conditioning and elevators, important infrastructure for any building, so it is now ready for a tenant buildout.

I think the big thing for the Ilitches is they aren't willing to take a risk. That is part of what happened to the Madison-Lenox. The Kraemer Design Group has on their website, a plan to turn that building into a national hotel. At the end of the day, hotels are not the Ilitches business, and it was too big of a risk for them, but they still weren't about to give up the land, so they tore it down. It doesn't change anything, but I think we are seeing it again with the UA. They are largely unwilling to take a risk.

[kryptonite]

esp1986, I disagree, respectully, with your opinion. Ilitch purchased the Fox when it was in so-so shape following an honest effort by Forbes to rescue it. Ilitch restored it into a showplace. He also bought the Red Wings when they were not performing well and made them one of the NHL's top contenders. He also bought the Tigers when they were on the skids and turned them [[with time) into an improved team.

Personally I believe they have done something similar with the UA complex, to take both a theater and office building that were in dire condition after decades of abandonment and decay and to apparently stabilize or maybe renovate the property at a time when the MI economy is the nation's worst.

Ilitch, Karmanos, Penske, Ferchill, Pasky and a few others have shown a great deal of willingness to invest in Detroit at a scary time. They are all taking a risk to an extent.

[Kimberlaina]

That looks like one of Andrew Moore's photos

Indeed it does. I just found it using Google Images on some guy's blog!

[Whitehouse]

These windows are much easier to remove than a Banksy mural. You could fill a gallery with this!

[Gistok]

These windows are much easier to remove than a Banksy mural. You could fill a gallery with this!

Whitehouse... when the Ilitch's refused to meet with the National Trust For Historic Preservations president Richard Moe a few years ago [[as the Madison-Lenox Hotel was being demolished).... the National Trust got their comeuppence with the Ilitch's by posting a picture of the decrepit [[and open to the elements and to vagrants) United Artists Building... with painted windows... on the front cover of their National Trust magazine [[circulation 700,000).

The window paint came off, and the "development" banners went up just before the 2006 SuperBowl here in Detroit.

[Whitehouse]

Whitehouse... when the Ilitch's refused to meet with the National Trust For Historic Preservations president Richard Moe a few years ago [[as the Madison-Lenox Hotel was being demolished).... the National Trust got their comeuppence with the Ilitch's by posting a picture of the decrepit [[and open to the elements and to vagrants) United Artists Building... with painted windows... on the front cover of their National Trust magazine [[circulation 700,000).

The window paint came off, and the "development" banners went up just before the 2006 SuperBowl here in Detroit.

Damn.... I would expect him to act sensible with the smell of money.

[DetroitDad]

New wooden window braces have appeared all over the lower level doors and building windows. It is hard to tell from the street if these are just frames, or if new windows have been installed. Either way, this appears to be a good sign.

Some new vehicles have been going in and out of the UA site, mostly inside the gated sidewalk/front entrance area. The kicker is that they have been covering up the logos on the sides of the vehicles to conceal their identity. Very intriguing!

Attachment 6417

Finally, a Detroit development that understands that secrecy is much better, and gets you much more publicity than premature announcements.

[Gistok]

Thanks for the intrigue DetroitsDad!!

Wouldn't it be great if some of the trucks are hiding this company's logo....

http://www.conradschmitt.com/portfol...O.X=58&GO.Y=15

[mcsdetroitfriend]

more pictures! Stat! I won't be back in the States until October! I'm touring the Mediterranean, the more the merrier!

[exmotowner]

Can't somebody go peek for us?

[exmotowner]

BTW Gistok, love the Conrad Schmitt website. Some beautiful old theaters on there for sure.

[Gistok]

BTW Gistok, love the Conrad Schmitt website. Some beautiful old theaters on there for sure.

Exmotowner, go check out the pics for the Citi Center For the Performing Arts [[also listed as the Wang Center) in Boston on that website.

It was designed in 1925 [[as the Metropolitan Theatre) by Clarence Blackall, with the assistance of Detroit's own theatre architect [[and architect of the Detroit United Artists Theatre)... C. Howard Crane. It is the largest theatre in New England.

Why Clarence Blackall [[who had designed theatres and auditoriums since 1907) needed the assistance of C. Howard Crane in the design is somewhat of a mystery. Possibly because he had never designed such a large theatre, or needed help with theatre circulation space. But anyway Crane's influence is seen in the auditorium and lobby design and ornamentation.

One other interesting thing about the lobby of that theatre is that the grand staircase was used in the movie "The Witches Of Eastwick", as warlock Jack Nicholson's mansion stairway.

[Kimberlaina]

Looking at the interior photos, I've made an observation. In the most recent one I posted, the plaster on the side wall appears to be intact. In the earlier interior shots I posted -- back on pages 3 and 4 of the thread -- the plaster on the side wall is in a pile on the floor. Which came first? What does this mean? Comments?

Edit: Is the fact that the plaster looks intact in my more recent post just a trick of light?

[Gistok]

Looking at the interior photos, I've made an observation. In the most recent one I posted, the plaster on the side wall appears to be intact. In the earlier interior shots I posted -- back on pages 3 and 4 of the thread -- the plaster on the side wall is in a pile on the floor. Which came first? What does this mean? Comments?

Edit: Is the fact that the plaster looks intact in my more recent post just a trick of light?

That is a very good question Kimberlaina... perhaps the angle of the image gives us the impression that more plasterwork was put back up.... but your more recent shot is definitely just that... more recent.

Older view [[which also shows that the right wall of the auditorium is in somewhat better condition than the left wall)....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33873484@N05/3645547034/

More recent view [[closer view of left wall)...
http://www.andrewlmoore.com/view_ima...&project_id=13

That blue thingy [[and the since removed debris pile next to it)... in the way of part of the sidewall on the older view may be skewing our perseption of the surviving plasterwork in the more recent image.

[DetroitUA]

IMO the plasterwork just looks cleaned up, no actual restoration work done yet. I've never seen an original photo of this auditorium when it was in pristine condition, but I was curious to know if there was a "top" over the orchestra pit, or if that it was filled at some point - or maybe there was never an orchestra pit. Can anyone clarify this?

[esp1986]

IMO the plasterwork just looks cleaned up, no actual restoration work done yet. I've never seen an original photo of this auditorium when it was in pristine condition, but I was curious to know if there was a "top" over the orchestra pit, or if that it was filled at some point - or maybe there was never an orchestra pit. Can anyone clarify this?

The UA mostly served as a movie house. No orchestra pit to the best of my knowledge... Gistok?

[Whitehouse]

That would be a coup of epic proportions if Illich presents a worldclass theater, or should I say resurrects a worldclass theater. It could mean a boost for that whole area.

Side by side view of said location.



Look more work done than a simple clean-up. In the old picture the brickwork is visible, in the newer there's fresh plasterwork applied.

Especially this part is intriguing.


Same part in the older picture.


Maybe some test work? Look really like something was added to the old plasterwork.

[kryptonite]

It could mean a boost for that whole area.

Sure, Ilitch made a big splash when he reopened the Fox Theater after restoring it. That was one of the events that eventually resulted in the large weekend crowds of people Downtown that are common these days.

[esp1986]

That would be a coup of epic proportions if Illich presents a worldclass theater, or should I say resurrects a worldclass theater. It could mean a boost for that whole area.

Side by side view of said location.



Look more work done than a simple clean-up. In the old picture the brickwork is visible, in the newer there's fresh plasterwork applied.

Especially this part is intriguing.


Same part in the older picture.


Maybe some test work? Look really like something was added to the old plasterwork.

Just playing devil's advocate here... but there is no proof that the Andrew Moore picture wasn't actually taken before the two others from Flickr. The date on the site says, "Detroit 2008-2009." It remains possible that his was taken before the walls were stripped down to brick, because it looks in his picture, that the plaster work is far from pristine. The pictures on Flickr are dated March and June of '09, meaning that it is entirely possible that Andrew Moore actually took his picture prior to that, possibly [[based on his website) in 2008.

[DetroitUA]

I hate to be the one to agree with esp1986, but if you look at this older photo before any cleanup [[believe these are from 2007 or 2008) you can see how far back the plaster actually extends on the left side of the auditorium. It's sad to say but it looks like Andrew's photo is older and the torn up one is more current

[Gistok]

OK, now I see that more plaster has been removed, as well as a lot of corroded metal, likely from the metal rods that hold the plaster shell in place. And even some brickwork appears to be in the pile on the floor.

Am I concerned about this removal of plaster? Not really. In Andrew's image the right wall is in far better condition than the left wall. If a restoration is in order, then they will likely make molds of the right wall ornamentation, and use it for both walls.

At some point at least 98% of the plastwork in the auditorium will need to be replaced anyway [[in the Detroit Opera House it was 90%).

Or they may make do and just remake the auditorium into a simpler design with less side wall ornamentation... not the best option, but realistically it could be the case. It's also possible that they could make the side walls flat, and recreate the designs in a painted mural way. [[This was done in the Los Angeles Wiltern Theatre, where the plaster starburst that spanned the ceiling fell to the ground, and was replaced with a painted version of the original.)

But the organ grilles and procenium arch and canopy still appear relatively intact, and could likely remain, since they're the focal point of the theatre [[along with the fan vaults around the cove ceiling).

[Gistok]

The Detroit United Artists Theatre did indeed have an orchestra and orchestra pit, although in later years it was just movies without any accompanyment....

[Gistok]

Here's an image of the left sidewall part of the theatre that we've been speculating about. This is how it originally looked back in 1928.

Note, the stonework is likely Trompe l'oeil [[fool the eye) painting on flat plaster, rather than rough plaster with jagged stone like edges. This rough stonework was later [[in 50s or 60s) repainted as a flat surface, along with the removal of the "Rajastan Indian" mural above the balcony portion of the theatre sidewalls.

So that type of fake surface restoration [[or for that matter stenciling) is much easier, than re-casting ornate plasterwork.

The 2nd image is a repeat [[poster before on this thread) of the smaller Chicago United Artists Theatre [[razed 1990). It shows the type of Rajastan murals [[upper left of image) that were originally in the Detroit UA. Also the colorful gem-like lighting of the ornate plasterwork were similar in Detroit [[hence the nickname "Jewel Box" of the Detroit UA).
.

[Gistok]

Can one of our downtown residents take some photos of the recently discussed "framework" around the lower windows/doors of the UA? Due to health issues with my mother, I won't be able to get down there for at least another week.