Michigan Jobless Rate Hits 15.2%

**MotownSpartan** · July-15-09, 04:51 PM

What does this mean for those working to revive/grow Detroit? How do you all see this affecting the city and how should we change our approach in light of the severity of the economic crisis here? Is a change in approach needed and if so, why does it appear that there have been no substantial changes to business as usual in Detroit [[possibly with the exception of DPS)?

**Detroit500** · July-15-09, 05:23 PM

It has had a substantial change on the morning commute -- look at how many less cars are on the road. It also has slowed development --- look at how many more articles ModelD had about new development last year compared to this year.

This is devastating and suffocating the region. This once great state needs solutions and new leadership. Will the 2010 elections supply them? Will it be enough? I can only hope, because I [[like so many of us) don't want to have to move to Chicago or Los Angeles to find work.

**Baselinepunk** · July-15-09, 06:47 PM

"This once great state needs solutions and new leadership. Will the 2010 elections supply them? Will it be enough?"

I don't know about that. They way things are shaping up it looks like both sides of the aisle are screwed.

**Novine** · July-15-09, 10:34 PM

The "winner" of the 2010 race is going to have little impact on the state's economy. Engler benefited from the boom in the national economy and when the Dot Com bubble busted at the end of this final term, the state's economy went with it. That's why Granholm was given the present of filling her first deficit as soon as she walked into office. While the national economy rebounded, the continuous downsizing of the Big Three and now bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler have continued to pound the state's economy as no other state has suffered. No matter who is power in Lansing, none of the fundamentals of the national or state economy are going to change. Until they do, we'll hear lots of people talking about government solutions to the problems [[cut spending or cut taxes or increase taxes on the rich or more stimulus spending) which will have little impact on the state's overall economy but which will be debated far beyond their actual ability to turn the state's economy around.

**bailey** · July-16-09, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

What does this mean for those working to revive/grow Detroit? How do you all see this affecting the city and how should we change our approach in light of the severity of the economic crisis here? Is a change in approach needed and if so, why does it appear that there have been no substantial changes to business as usual in Detroit [[possibly with the exception of DPS)?

Well, first, before even addressing the problem, Michigan's unemployment is 15%....the last number I saw for Detroit proper was 22%. And that is just who they are counting. "discouraged" workers...those that aren't seeking work, and "under employed"..those working part time aren't counted. s o, easily we're talking, 1 in 4 in Detroit are unemployed/underemployed. In a city of 900k that is 225,000 people...just in Detroit.

Why have there been no changes you ask? Because we have a coward as governor and partisan provincial hacks at every level of government. We also have a generally stupid electorate that demands cradle to the grave employment turning a screw on a line, demands that they pay no taxes, possess a pathological hatred of education, and rely on a culture of victim hood and entitlement programs. We need massive, systemic, and painful changes to both the state and city governments. Massive rightsizing of both the tax burden and the size of government in each. Until then we'll keep circling the drain. but of course, tax increases will be met with talk of revolution from the teabaggers that run most of the state and local governments. Government spending and entitlement programs wont be cut, because that would take leadership....and it will be hard... and Granholm is not a leader and has proven herself incapable of making a hard decision. Think John Cherry will be any better? How about Mike Cox?

City of Detroit-wise.... anything about the current crop of Kilpatrick re-treads populating the Bing administration give anyone any optimism about a turnaround for the city?

So, to your question of "what if means for those working to revive/grow Detroit?" it means they're fucked.

**Danny** · July-16-09, 09:18 AM

If the Michigan jobsless rate goes up to 25% that would be a one state Great Depression.

**kathy2trips** · July-16-09, 09:32 AM

Just because Engler was incompetent, doesn't mean ALL republicans are. You have to judge by the PERSON, not the party.

**Sstashmoo** · July-16-09, 09:32 AM

People just need more credit available so they can buy a Hyundai. We don't need more manufacturing, we need to borrow more money.

**Danny** · July-16-09, 10:34 AM

Don't blame Granholm and Obama for this mess. The fault lies on former president George W. Bush with the rediculous globalization trade proposals that allow corporations to move their manufacturing industries overseas.

Granholm and President Obama is doing their best to bring jobs to Michigan. But we Americans have to help them out in return. If we cut our spending on foreign imports and but American products, then globalization proposals will not continue and be a reality for the free market.

**Novine** · July-16-09, 11:45 AM

"We need massive, systemic, and painful changes to both the state and city governments. Massive rightsizing of both the tax burden and the size of government in each. Until then we'll keep circling the drain. but of course, tax increases will be met with talk of revolution from the teabaggers that run most of the state and local governments."

Reform is needed. But the focus on government as the problem/solution ignores the reality that it's only a small part of what needs to be fixed.

**humanmachinery** · July-16-09, 11:52 AM

I hate to say it, but bailey is right. This state needs tax increases, spending cuts, and some serious political reform –starting with a redrafting or removal of the term limit laws. Of course nobody wants to admit these things, because they're all unpopular moves. Voters would all like to believe their services will increase, their taxes will be cut, and their politicians can all be brilliantly effective one term servants who move on to highly successful charity work.

So we're not likely to see any solutions soon, just like we're not likely to fix an economy that still depends far too much upon industry. With the minor exception of government contractors, the American industrial economy is dead.

**Sstashmoo** · July-16-09, 12:12 PM

Quote: "the American industrial economy is dead."

You said it. And we are seeing the effects of it now. An "industrial economy" is the only economy that would ever work here in the US. The one we had was left unprotected and it was stolen. If you're having some fantasy about some "service based" economy, forget it. That get's outsourced too.

Raising taxes and cutting services are coming, no way around it. It doesn't have to be this way. So many are brainwashed via the local community college it's sad. They have drank the Kool-aid. When they wake up it will be too late.

**wazootyman** · July-16-09, 12:14 PM

If this thread were a room, it would be dimly lit, musty and occupied by a lone dirty, greasy drunk guy sitting in a chair in the corner. Don't even bother opening the curtains - it's not sunny outside anyway.

**Sstashmoo** · July-16-09, 12:20 PM

I just tell the truth and it sounds like hell.

Quote: "Don't even bother opening the curtains"

That's the people with their air-filled positive outlook. They must never look outside. The unemployment rate is skyrocketing, companies are dropping like flies, many companies are cutting back to 32 hour work weeks. You people that ignore all this and tout your "global economy" are the one's living in the dark gloomy room and just do not realize it.

**docmo** · July-16-09, 12:47 PM

Please quit making excuses for Jenny and Barack. Their policies kill private investment and economic expansion. The only things that are expanding is government intrusion and taxes. Oh, unemployment too!

**Novine** · July-16-09, 02:24 PM

"Please quit making excuses for Jenny and Barack. Their policies kill private investment and economic expansion. The only things that are expanding is government intrusion and taxes. Oh, unemployment too!"

Obama cut taxes for many middle and low-income Americans since taking office. Try again.

**EMG** · July-16-09, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Obama cut taxes for many middle and low-income Americans since taking office. Try again.

Let's be sure to revisit that issue in two to four years and see what the situation is then. Bookmark this thread, folks!

**EMG** · July-16-09, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by MotownSpartan

What does this mean for those working to revive/grow Detroit? How do you all see this affecting the city and how should we change our approach in light of the severity of the economic crisis here? Is a change in approach needed and if so, why does it appear that there have been no substantial changes to business as usual in Detroit [[possibly with the exception of DPS)?

Well for starters Michigan needs to be made more business-friendly if there is to be any hope of attracting business. Taxwise, it is not competitive with many other states.

Furthermore, for all but a few months of the year, Michigan isn't really a very nice place to live, weather-wise. In the past, union strength helped to lift all boats and provide an income premium that increased the willingness of people to put up with Michigan weather, but those days are long gone, so without the "bad weather premium" in their pay there is less incentive for people to put up with Michigan weather and higher Michigan taxes.

I left Michigan for Arizona in the '01 downturn, and now there isn't a salary high enough that would convince me to come back. You can't put a price on being able to wake up in the morning and not even have to look out the window to know it's going to be a great day. I don't even remember where I last put my umbrella, and I threw away my show shovel and my lawn mower almost a decade ago.

Now, I at least did grow up at a time when there were still great jobs in Michigan, and I knew that what I was making wouldn't be matched out of Michigan, which is why I stayed there as long as I did. But if I were in Michigan attending high school today, deciding what to do with my life, would I even consider staying in Michigan? Heck no, not for one minute and not for anything in the world. I would be off for a college in the Sun Belt the minute I could, and never come back any more than I'm ever going to come back from where I am today. That may sound extreme but there is no doubt that many youth who ARE in that position today do have that attitude and it is part of the reason for the Michigan population drop.

**bailey** · July-16-09, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by EMG

Let's be sure to revisit that issue in two to four years and see what the situation is then. Bookmark this thread, folks!

I'm inclined to give the administration some time to deal with the national economy. They have a plan. They ran on that plan. They are now implementing the plan. How about we give the guy more than 6 months into the first term to get some results?Book mark away.

While it may not hit all the [[somewhat unrealistic) goals, it's obvious it will go further to remedy the situation than "Drill, Baby Drill" and tax cuts.

With regard to Michigan....looking at the current "front runners" in the upcoming elections, I think stocking up on nonperishable foodstuffs, liquor and ammo might be in order.

You can't put a price on being able to wake up in the morning and not even have to look out the window to know it's going to be a great day. I don't even remember where I last put my umbrella, and I threw away my show shovel and my lawn mower almost a decade ago

all fine and dandy in January...however, July in AZ is not my idea of "pleasant".

**Sstashmoo** · July-16-09, 03:35 PM

Quote: "July in AZ is not my idea of "pleasant"."

You said it. What these folks always leave out is their pleasant day is contingent on their AC system. If it isn't working, it's otherwise unbearable. Quite frankly, I like the occasional rain and overcast day. Being sunny all the time, makes one take it for granted, and is tough on the folks who have to work out in it. I worked outside in the south at one time, 90 degrees by 10 am and midday was just impossible to do anything. Everyday, for months, the same story. No thanks.

**Roq** · July-16-09, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sstashmoo

Quote: "July in AZ is not my idea of "pleasant"."

You said it. What these folks always leave out is their pleasant day is contingent on their AC system. If it isn't working, it's otherwise unbearable. Quite frankly, I like the occasional rain and overcast day. Being sunny all the time, makes one take it for granted, and is tough on the folks who have to work out in it. I worked outside in the south at one time, 90 degrees by 10 am and midday was just impossible to do anything. Everyday, for months, the same story. No thanks.

I'm with you. I hate hot weather and would have to have premium pay to live in the Sunbelt.

**Detroit500** · July-16-09, 04:07 PM

All in all, I love the weather here in Michigan. Yes, the winters are cold, but in other states out east that I have lived [[New York, New Jersey) the winters feel worse. The humidity there makes the cold even chillier, right down to the bone. Here, it gets cold and we get a lot of snow, but it's not really TOO bad.

I also just prefer the heat to the cold. Anything over 80 is too warm for me. I suppose that is contingent on the fact I have heat though.

Very few places, perhaps Carmel/Pebble Beach would be one of them, can you get by without A/C and Heat on most days.

**Hypestyles** · July-16-09, 04:10 PM

have any of the candidates for governor laid out any specific ideas for how to attract alternative industries? in particular, any ideas how to uplift detroit?

**Novine** · July-16-09, 04:10 PM

"Let's be sure to revisit that issue in two to four years and see what the situation is then. Bookmark this thread, folks!"

I'll make it clear for my slow conservative friends. If you're going to blame Obama's "tax increases" for the current state of the economy, where are they? Or let's blame Michigan's "tax increases" for the crappy state of Michigan's economy. Except for the first 5 years Granholm was in office, state income taxes went down or at worst, were flat. No major state tax was increased during Granholm's first five years in office. What? The license fees were what killed the state economy? What wonders did the tax cuts do for the state economy?

Do taxes matter? Yes but not that much. The state income tax rate today is lower than it was for almost any time when Engler was Governor. The federal income tax rates are lower than almost any time when Bill Clinton was President. By the conservative logic of today, our economy should be roaring along with the lower income tax rates. But that isn't the case. Why? Because most of the reasons that the economy is crappy have little to do with tax rates.

**Gistok** · July-16-09, 04:39 PM

What I would like to know is all this "job re-training" that both sides of the political aisle keep talking about... retraining for what?

Information Technology? Outsourced to India.

Engineering? Outsourced to India.

Technical Factory Worker? Outsourced to China.

Medical profession? OK... but just how many new jobs can it bear?

"Green Jobs"? Eventually all those windmills will be made in China anyway... and as for the battery technology... aren't most of these jobs gonna end up in Asia [[Korea and China)?

So what jobs can people be re-trained for that can't be sent to overseas? Building trades? [[not doing so hot right now)....

Even tele-marketters are getting "offshored"...