World Leaders getting angrier by the day at USA over intelligence snooping...

**Gistok** · October-24-13, 06:31 PM

First the president of Brazil got pissed off and cancelled a state visit to the US... the the president of Mexico got pissed... and then the French [[who are usually easily pissed anyway)... but now Germany's Chancellor Angela Merkel is very angry at Washington for snooping in on her conversations... she likened us to Nazi and Communist spying.

Not a good way to treat our best friends in the world...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/wo...in-Europe.html

**noise** · October-25-13, 08:22 AM

I think it has less to do with being a good way to treat our friends, as many experts agree this is common, but more to do with stupidly being caught so publicly. You can do whatever you want if you don't get caught.

**Danny** · October-25-13, 08:56 AM

YAY! Thank-you Edward Snowden! You're the next Guy Fawkes. Bring more of your gun powder of information to expose what the U.S. government did to the world.

**MvGuy** · October-28-13, 08:58 AM

Yer the Man Danny...!!!! Fifty thumbs up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**Jimaz** · October-28-13, 10:15 PM

I find it interesting that sovereign states are playing this out in public view. It's clear they have some expectation of using global public opinion as a lever elsewhere.

It's particularly interesting that France objects several decades after they were generally considered the posterchild for spying on everybody. IIRC, they openly admitted their spying activity and boldly didn't care who knew or objected. I've nothing against France. I admired their being, well, frank.

Why would any sovereign state assure its allies that it's not spying on them? To foster in them a false sense of security in hope that they'd let down their guard thus making spying even easier? No, that doesn't make any sense up at that level of play.

As Machiavellian as it may seem, no truly sovereign state would ever assume their allies aren't spying on them. This is the very nature of sovereign states.

As I've said before, there exists strong encryption technology that is available to any sovereign state. There is no longer any need for a "gentleman's agreement" among allies in such matters. Security is theirs for the having and they know it.

So why then is this being played out on the stage of public opinion?

GNU Privacy Guard

**rb336** · October-29-13, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by noise

I think it has less to do with being a good way to treat our friends, as many experts agree this is common, but more to do with stupidly being caught so publicly. You can do whatever you want if you don't get caught.

well, if it weren't for Snowden, they wouldn't have gotten caught

**noise** · October-29-13, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by rb336

well, if it weren't for Snowden, they wouldn't have gotten caught

It's probably my political makeup, but I still blame that on the politicians.

**oladub** · October-29-13, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Jimaz

there exists strong encryption technology that is available to any sovereign state. There is no longer any need for a "gentleman's agreement" among allies in such matters. Security is theirs for the having and they know it.

So why then is this being played out on the stage of public opinion?

GNU Privacy Guard

You bring up the question of why or how the NSA got hacked by Anonymous a few days ago. This had to be extremely embarrassing for our spies to have been hacked.

---

Not addressed to you specifically, Jimaz, but there were anti-US demonstrations in the US and elsewhere last weekend. I'm uncomforable linking to Russia Today but if CNN had been doing its job, I would have linked there.
http://rt.com/usa/nsa-rally-mass-surveillance-786/

**Jimaz** · October-29-13, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

... there were anti-US demonstrations in the US and elsewhere last weekend. I'm uncomforable linking to Russia Today but if CNN had been doing its job....

Thom Hartmann noted a conspicuous absence of coverage too. He offers some resources for tracking down the interlocking boards of directors between large defense contractors and large media companies.

**rb336** · October-30-13, 08:55 AM

The NSA is thoroughly out of control. How many people do they employ? who knows. How many properties do they have? that is top secret, but estimates have placed the number at over 1,000. GSA paid for renovation of a 15,000 sq. ft. building in Troy, another building in Livonia and a third in Warren. They are not listed as government offices, have no signage. That is in addition to the acknowledged NSA offices in Detroit.

**Papasito** · October-30-13, 03:28 PM

It's funny when other countries, like Russia, bug foreign diplomats and world leaders, the rest of the world just shrugs it off. "Well, what do you expect from Putin?"

But if America does it OMG THE NERVE!?!!

I'm not defending it, I'm just pointing out the double standard.

Crafty Russian operatives gave goodie bags to world powers at the G-20 summit with USB drives and phone chargers — but they were “Trojan Horses” designed to download info and send it back to the motherland.

The cloak-and-dagger spy game played out at last month’s conference in St. Petersburg, where Vladimir Putin and President Obama appeared to patch up their feud.

But little did Obama know that Putin’s henchmen were making sure every delegate at the G-20 walked out with equipment that could compromise state secrets.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/30/russia-...-20-delegates/

**Gistok** · November-01-13, 09:36 AM

We may all have our political differences, but spying on ourselves and on our international friends is something that we seem to have some commonality about...

Looks like Germany is "one upping" the stakes... they've been talking with Edward Snowden in Russia... and I wouldn't be surprised if they grant him some form of immunity to come to Germany to talk with them about spying on German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...f47_story.html

Just read something interesting about her... she's the most powerful woman on the planet... so don't mess with a pissed off woman in power!!