Turn on the Streetlights

**Artistic** · October-22-13, 04:02 PM

It's very good news to be reading about a couple of different areas of the city getting streetlights either installed or turned on. Are there areas/neighborhoods in the city that have all the streetlights on such as Corktown, Boston Edison, Sherwood Forest etc.....

**Detroit Signal** · October-22-13, 05:29 PM

Not sure, but the city estimates that only half of the 88,000 fixtures in the city work. The biggest problems you usually see on main arterials are entire blocks of lights out because the city still uses series lighting. It acts much like a strand of Christmas lights and requires one closed loop of current to operate. Many of these have failed due to copper theft and obsolete equipment. There HAVE been update to particular stretches of FIXTURES during the past few years, however and off the top of my head they include parts of the Lodge service drive, Trumbull north of Grand River to Edsel Ford and also in front of MCS. There have also been LED conversions in the last year, including 14th from Calvert and also sections of Jefferson Ave. downtown. Not sure if all of these actually operate because there was no wire replacement or infrastructure repairs - just fixture replacement.

**Ray1936** · October-22-13, 06:34 PM

Turn out ALL the lights. The party's over.

**jt1** · October-22-13, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Turn out ALL the lights. The party's over.

You make it really easy for me to have no sympathy for the retirees. Just be a little more honest and admit that, as far as you are concerned, everyone in the city could take a bullet to the face as long as you get your pension.

**motz** · October-23-13, 09:03 AM

I can tell you that Warren and Forest in Woodbridge are missing a ton of lights, and it makes being around the neighborhood just FEEL unsafe any time after sundown. I would love to see some of the other neighborhoods get their due attention and actually have lighted streets and whatnot. I never really appreciated, having come from the suburbs, how much working street lights really do help with sense of security. Kinda take it for granted, but this is the reality of the city.

**motz** · October-23-13, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

You make it really easy for me to have no sympathy for the retirees. Just be a little more honest and admit that, as far as you are concerned, everyone in the city could take a bullet to the face as long as you get your pension.

I was going to comment on his thread about his surgery but feel it'd be better addressed here. Does he think that making sart arse remarks about the city that employed him and is currently pays for his healthcare and pension is a good idea? I totally agree that it is hard to sympathize when someone says these kinds of things...

**Artistic** · October-23-13, 10:07 AM

All I was looking for was some honest answers to "streetlights". I'll be Detroiter next week Thursday when I close on my house.....yes there are people who really do want to live in this amazing, interesting, struggling city.

**Honky Tonk** · October-23-13, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Artistic

All I was looking for was some honest answers to "streetlights". I'll be Detroiter next week Thursday when I close on my house.....yes there are people who really do want to live in this amazing, interesting, struggling city.

The "Gold Coast" hasn't had street lights in years, IV is spotty, carry a flashlight if you're going down Lafayette or Mack.

**Gistok** · October-23-13, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by motz

I was going to comment on his thread about his surgery but feel it'd be better addressed here. Does he think that making sart arse remarks about the city that employed him and is currently pays for his healthcare and pension is a good idea? I totally agree that it is hard to sympathize when someone says these kinds of things...

Motz.... Ray1936 has been on this forum for over a decade... and he's always been a decent level headed poster. I think his comments were intended more as a bystanders somewhat jaded lament of what's going on in the slowly evolving story of the EMF and bankrupcy, rather than a snarky response.

So I wouldn't get offended by his comments... he's just giving us a glimpse of what goes thru the minds of retirees. As for the streetlight comment... just a reflection of the party being over for the status quo...

**motz** · October-23-13, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Motz.... Ray1936 has been on this forum for over a decade... and he's always been a decent level headed poster. I think his comments were intended more as a bystanders somewhat jaded lament of what's going on in the slowly evolving story of the EMF and bankrupcy, rather than a snarky response.

So I wouldn't get offended by his comments... he's just giving us a glimpse of what goes thru the minds of retirees. As for the streetlight comment... just a reflection of the party being over for the status quo...

Thanks Gistok. I am just tired of hearing the same handful of comments over and over again, whether it be in threads or news article comments or whatever. It hasn't been funny in as long as I can remember, and its just unnecessary imo.

Artistic, which neighborhood are you moving to? Most of my experience lies with the "better"/"coming back" areas, but do have a few friends up in Virginia Park/Boston-Edison/Villages. Just realize that streetlights are an issue EVERYWHERE, not just say, Brightmoor. The lights on 2nd by Forest were out for god knows how long, leaving the stretch of 2nd between Forest and Hancock dark as hell. I know a few cars got broken into, luckily I was spared.

**Artistic** · October-23-13, 12:19 PM

@Motz - Sherwood Forest, there seems to be newer covering wraps at the base of all the streetlights to deter scrapers looking for the interior metals. I read a couple months back an article that suggested that Sherwood Forest was a target area for lighting all the streetlights.

**jt1** · October-23-13, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Motz.... Ray1936 has been on this forum for over a decade... and he's always been a decent level headed poster. I think his comments were intended more as a bystanders somewhat jaded lament of what's going on in the slowly evolving story of the EMF and bankrupcy, rather than a snarky response.

So I wouldn't get offended by his comments... he's just giving us a glimpse of what goes thru the minds of retirees. As for the streetlight comment... just a reflection of the party being over for the status quo...

Level headed and a good poster but his continuing snark is getting really, really old. I can understand that he is upset by potential pension cuts but let's look at the facts [[either by what Ray has stated in the past or assumptions based upon his user name)

Born: 1936
Retired from DPD: 1984 [[at the ripe age of 48, possibly 47)
Years of service: 25
Years collecting a pension: 29
Years of medical benefits for himself and, I assume, his wife: 29

So explain to me how anyone with any sense of finances can insist that 25 years of services should result in 29+ years of pension and healthcare for 2? I can appreciate his snark and frustration but the writing has been on the wall for 10-20 years. At this point he has more than gotten out what he paid in and insists the citizens of Detroit and bond holders [[and possibly current employees) should be the only ones to take the hit as long as his benefits never run out or get reduced.

If you ask me, DPD does a very important job and it is certainly a noble profession however 54 years of pay/pension/benefits for 25 years of service will never add up and it a big part of the reason the city is arguing why it should be allowed to go to bankruptcy.

Call me an ass but I'll take the needs of 700,000 over the needs of 20,000 anyday

**313WX** · October-23-13, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Level headed and a good poster but his continuing snark is getting really, really old. I can understand that he is upset by potential pension cuts but let's look at the facts [[either by what Ray has stated in the past or assumptions based upon his user name)

Born: 1936
Retired from DPD: 1984 [[at the ripe age of 48, possibly 47)
Years of service: 25
Years collecting a pension: 29
Years of medical benefits for himself and, I assume, his wife: 29

So explain to me how anyone with any sense of finances can insist that 25 years of services should result in 29+ years of pension and healthcare for 2? I can appreciate his snark and frustration but the writing has been on the wall for 10-20 years. At this point he has more than gotten out what he paid in and insists the citizens of Detroit and bond holders [[and possibly current employees) should be the only ones to take the hit as long as his benefits never run out or get reduced.

If you ask me, DPD does a very important job and it is certainly a noble profession however 54 years of pay/pension/benefits for 25 years of service will never add up and it a big part of the reason the city is arguing why it should be allowed to go to bankruptcy.

Call me an ass but I'll take the needs of 700,000 over the needs of 20,000 anyday

Amen jtl, amen...

**Johnnny5** · October-23-13, 01:18 PM

Whether or not your above assumptions are correct, IMO your logic is still flawed. You're looking at pension payments as some type of bonus or additional pay when it's really just deferred compensation that was earned while the retiree was still employed. If not for the promised health and pension benefits Detroit would have had to provide higher salaries to keep these guys on the job. Also, some people like Ray may end up receiving decades of payments, but you have to balance that against those unfortunate ones who only live a short time after they retire.

**jaytheory** · October-23-13, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

Level headed and a good poster but his continuing snark is getting really, really old. I can understand that he is upset by potential pension cuts but let's look at the facts [[either by what Ray has stated in the past or assumptions based upon his user name)

Born: 1936
Retired from DPD: 1984 [[at the ripe age of 48, possibly 47)
Years of service: 25
Years collecting a pension: 29
Years of medical benefits for himself and, I assume, his wife: 29

So explain to me how anyone with any sense of finances can insist that 25 years of services should result in 29+ years of pension and healthcare for 2? I can appreciate his snark and frustration but the writing has been on the wall for 10-20 years. At this point he has more than gotten out what he paid in and insists the citizens of Detroit and bond holders [[and possibly current employees) should be the only ones to take the hit as long as his benefits never run out or get reduced.

If you ask me, DPD does a very important job and it is certainly a noble profession however 54 years of pay/pension/benefits for 25 years of service will never add up and it a big part of the reason the city is arguing why it should be allowed to go to bankruptcy.

Call me an ass but I'll take the needs of 700,000 over the needs of 20,000 anyday

Agree 100%, and this specific case hes been getting paid 4 more years than he worked. If it was the contract t was the contract, but dont take your pay then shit on the people that pay you

**Gistok** · October-23-13, 01:29 PM

OK Jt1... we've had to endure years of your lectures over Huron Clinton Metropark not coming back [[after they were snubbed by city government)... to take over Belle Isle...

And now you complain about Ray1936... and his "occasional" comments about how this affects him... and he's doing this not with a hint of anger... but more of resignation over the unfolding scenario...

And here you are in your "über sensitive" mode again... making his laments sound downright tame by comparison.... funny that....

**jt1** · October-23-13, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

OK Jt1... we've had to endure years of your lectures over Huron Clinton Metropark not coming back [[after they were snubbed by city government)... to take over Belle Isle...

Well, firstly, when was the last time I discussed this? You are correct that the city in, I believe the 70s, stupidly rebuffed HCMA however the last attempt by the city was refuted by HCMA. But back to the original question: When was the last time I mentioned HCMA?

And now you complain about Ray1936... and his "occasional" comments about how this affects him... and he's doing this not with a hint of anger... but more of resignation over the unfolding scenario...

It is more the occasional and you may find them with no hint of anger however they reek of complete and utter contempt for the city and citizens.

And here you are in your "über sensitive" mode again... making his laments sound downright tame by comparison.... funny that....

Facts about how his benefits are completely and have a direct impact on Detroit being bankrupt is sensitive? The truth is, Ray has made it clear he doesn't give two shits about the city or residents. I'm fine with that and certainly won't shed one tear when his 'earned' 30 year of benefits are cut.

Perhaps we can go back to you complaining about how you were wronged by Eastpointe police.

**jt1** · October-23-13, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

You're looking at pension payments as some type of bonus or additional pay when it's really just deferred compensation that was earned while the retiree was still employed. If not for the promised health and pension benefits Detroit would have had to provide higher salaries to keep these guys on the job.

I am not looking at it as additional pay but the idea of deferred compensation becomes unsustainable at a certain point [[like when there are 2 retirees for every employee). It comes down to being realistic. Anyone who retired, lived on a pension for almost 30 years, has seen what has happened to the city, finances of the city, active employees contributing, etc. should have seen this coming and planned accordingly. My company could offer me a 10 pound brick of gold upon retirement but would still contribute to my 401K, IRAs, etc since reality would dictate that crick of gold would not be there for me. The city is being taken to task for poor planning and poor money management. The retirees should not get a pass for being so short sighted as well.

Higher salaries would have created a need to better manage the money year in and year out as opposed to kicking the can down the road.

Also, some people like Ray may end up receiving decades of payments, but you have to balance that against those unfortunate ones who only live a short time after they retire.

That is a reasonable point. I'd like to see some actuarial data on average time of 'deferred compensation' received by retirees and their spouses [[who continue to get benefits after the employees death

**DetroitPlanner** · October-23-13, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

The city is being taken to task for poor planning and poor money management. The retirees should not get a pass for being so short sighted as well.

Most public service employees are not making big money. This makes it quite hard to put away even 10 percent of your check for the future. Heck even today a Detroit Cop starts in the mid-$30k [[for a job that has quite a bit of danger). The way that the pension was set-up has robbed them of another leg of their stool as somehow, a billion years ago it was decided that they should not be in the SSI. I for one don't want a bunch of 65 year old cops or firemen out there, yes they should have been given the option to transfer to another department, but you could not have foreseen this 20 years ago.

Without SSI, this population in particular is going to be unfairly adversely affected.

Me? I say fix all of the lights. Use as much new technology as possible.

Why?
- because solar panels and LEDs are not worth squat on the secondary market.
- it won't be worth it to the scrapper to lug their lazy butts up the pole to get at that stuff.

**jt1** · October-23-13, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Most public service employees are not making big money. This makes it quite hard to put away even 10 percent of your check for the future. Heck even today a Detroit Cop starts in the mid-$30k [[for a job that has quite a bit of danger). The way that the pension was set-up has robbed them of another leg of their stool as somehow, a billion years ago it was decided that they should not be in the SSI. I for one don't want a bunch of 65 year old cops or firemen out there, yes they should have been given the option to transfer to another department, but you could not have foreseen this 20 years ago.

Without SSI, this population in particular is going to be unfairly adversely affected.

Me? I say fix all of the lights. Use as much new technology as possible.

Why?
- because solar panels and LEDs are not worth squat on the secondary market.
- it won't be worth it to the scrapper to lug their lazy butts up the pole to get at that stuff.

I agree with you. The problem is that, in my opinion, the retires are arguing that they should not face any cuts even if it comes at the expense of current employees [[who will not receive a pension). The legacy costs are a huge burden and a major reason that DPD and DFD make disgustingly low wages.

I believe that the current DPD and DFD employees should make more so they can contribute to a defined retirement plan which would give them some flexibility and allow the city to have a reasonable understanding of bills year over year as opposed to liabilities 20, 30 or 40 years down the road.

I would even advocate that the city should pay a portion of insurance for employees who are at risk in the line of duty so that their families will not be screwed if something happens to them.

That is the root of my issue with the current retirees. Due to city mismanagement and the retirees willing to concede anything, it is having a major impact on the city's ability to pay a decent wage to the officers and fire fighters that are currently working.

Of course, if nothing else, this bankruptcy is proving that the retirees don't give two shits about the citizens or their 'brothers' and 'sisters' in DPD and DFD as long as they are not impaired.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-23-13, 04:33 PM

I am fairly certain that nearly all municipal employees have the ability to also have a defined benefit plan. I for one have both a pension and I put 15 percent away for retirement. Thankfully I am not in the City's major pension systems, though my parents and many of their friends are.

I fully expect not to get everything that I was promised through my retirement system and have saved. Those who are 30 years older than me had no writing on the wall.

**Hamtragedy** · October-25-13, 08:47 AM

The streetlights on Fenkell from Southfield to Lahser were on yesterday........afternoon.

**motz** · October-25-13, 09:30 AM

I walked from 2nd and Warren over to Go! Sy Thai at Cass and Canfield yesterday, noticed that the section around 2nd and Forest is dark... again. And in a move that mystifies me, the parking lot lights for the Hookah/Indian/Laundry places doesn't work still. And I can say, certain parts of Trumbull have some nasty gaps in lighting, but they recently redid the sidewalks and installed bases for light poles.