CBS Outdoor's Predecessors [[including Viacom Outdoor) and Detroit

[mtburb]

I do know that this topic has never been discussed before, so let's roll with it. A decade ago, if you traveled around the tri-county area, you may have passed dozens of billboards with a small white oval containing Viacom's pre-split 1990 logo.

If you did the same thing today, those same ovals instead contain the famous CBS eye, which, sadly, was painted over the Viacom wording back in 2006. Nowadays, you have to watch the closings of programs like Diagnosis Murder and Matlock to see that same Viacom logo again.

But, before 1999 [[when those Viacom ovals started appearing), the same physical company was under a host of different names, originally starting as 3M National. Does anyone remember when 3M National first entered the Detroit market and how their logos appeared on those billboards?

Plus, I vaguely remember seeing Turner logos at the bottoms of several billboards in the region as well a decade or more ago. Was it true that Mr. Ted also included an outdoor advertising company in his empire?

In case you have bad memory, here's a photo to refresh it [[displaying an actual advertisement), courtesy of the folks over at DetroitFunk:



And here's a drawing I did of one of these [[but with fictional advertisements on both sides), including an option to spin it around to see either side: http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...43a47695139d26

[bc_n_dtown]

Funny you mentioned this topic, having been a local billboard observer since I was a kid, back when the former Naegele Outdoor had a billboard right across the alley, next to where we lived. As a result I've kinda kept up with the company changes over the years.

First, I think you might have mixed a few companies that "locally" didn't belong to the same chain of companies. CBS Outdoor and the old 3M National had no direct connection in the "Detroit" market, although there are some ties between the two companies nationally. CBS Outdoor goes back to the old Walker & Company, which was the big billboard player here locally from the 1880's until the company was sold to Naegele Outdoor in 1962. That physical chain of companies, which still operates out of 88 Custer Street, goes like this...

Walker & Company [[1885-1962)
Naegele Outdoor Advertising [[1962-1969)
Eller Outdoor Advertising [[1969-1979)
Gannett Outdoor [[1979-1996)
Outdoor Systems [[1996-1999)
Infinity Outdoor [[1999-2001)
Viacom Outdoor [[2001-2006) [[Viacom split from CBS TV and radio and their billboard business which all became "CBS Corp.")
CBS Outdoor [[2006-present)

As to when 3M National became part of the local market I don't recall the exact year, although they had been in the billboard business for nearly 50 years [[1947), though not here in the Detroit market. If memory serves me correctly, I believe [[but I could be wrong) 3M took over a number of billboards from the Townsend Sign Co. sometime around the 1970s/80s. Townsend was a smaller local company that had the large size [[bulletin) billboards [[including the Goodyear car production sign), but later left the billboard business.

Here's how 3M National became part of the Viacom/CBS Outdoor national mix, although 3M's Detroit billboards never became part of the mix. In May 1997, 3M National Advertising Co. sold its national billboard business to Outdoor Systems [[which later became Viacom/CBS). However, because both companies already had billboards in Detroit at that time, the U.S. Justice Dept. ruled that before the sale could be finalized Outdoor Systems had to sell off its 3M billboards in 10 markets, including Detroit, to avoid a monopoly. Consequently, all the former 3M billboards in Detroit were immediately sold to Lamar Outdoor, which up until then had never been in the Detroit market.

[bc_n_dtown]

After the media conglomerate Viacom purchased Infinity Broadcasting [[which owned Infinity Outdoor) in 2001, it merged its billboard company TDI Worldwide with Infinity and formed Viacom Outdoor. Viacom announced in 2005 that it would split into two publically traded companies, the other being CBS Corporation. Viacom Outdoor then became CBS Outdoor.

.

[mtburb]

Here's how 3M National became part of the Viacom/CBS Outdoor national mix, although 3M's Detroit billboards never became part of the mix. In May 1997, 3M National Advertising Co. sold its national billboard business to Outdoor Systems [[which later became Viacom/CBS). However, because both companies already had billboards in Detroit at that time, the U.S. Justice Dept. ruled that before the sale could be finalized Outdoor Systems had to sell off its 3M billboards in 10 markets, including Detroit, to avoid a monopoly. Consequently, all the former 3M billboards in Detroit were immediately sold to Lamar Outdoor, which up until then had never been in the Detroit market.

Thanks for clearing that "3M National in Detroit" situation. In fact, inspired by your photo, I even modeled one and placed it in a still-work-in-progress rendering I am working on that simulates how I-94 between I-75 and M-10 would've appeared on October 2, 1989 [[which, in turn, was actually inspired by Lowell's paintings of the Cass Avenue overpass in that stretch), complete with [[off-topic) DDOT and SMART buses operating every route that used the overpasses between either north-south freeway at the time.

I tried sending you a PM about that, but I guess it didn't get sent...

[bc_n_dtown]

Here's the 3M National logo more like the way I remember it being displayed...

[bc_n_dtown]

after seeing your photo that seems to be more like it. I think you're right, the "3M" was more bold font than "National."

[leapfrog]

This is only quasi-related but 3M National had its business office and signage work area for many years on Sherwood between 8 Mile and Outer Drive. As a teenager, one of my first jobs was cleaning their offices in the evenings.
I used to LOVE that job because it gave me the opportunity to go into the work areas and see the billboards being created prior to being taken to the assembly point. It was fascinating to watch the process of designing the advertisement on paper, and then enlarging it by using a projector to put it up onto a wall [[this was all pre-PC days mind you).

In the last building is where they would put up the sections of billboard to be painted. Once completed they would be disassembled for transportation to the final assembly site. I would imagine these days they no longer actually paint billboards.

Anyway, I apologize for the thread-jack. Interesting topic and it got me thinking about my early work years!

[bc_n_dtown]

This is only quasi-related but 3M National had its business office and signage work area for many years on Sherwood between 8 Mile and Outer Drive. As a teenager, one of my first jobs was cleaning their offices in the evenings.
I used to LOVE that job because it gave me the opportunity to go into the work areas and see the billboards being created prior to being taken to the assembly point. It was fascinating to watch the process of designing the advertisement on paper, and then enlarging it by using a projector to put it up onto a wall [[this was all pre-PC days mind you).

In the last building is where they would put up the sections of billboard to be painted. Once completed they would be disassembled for transportation to the final assembly site. I would imagine these days they no longer actually paint billboards.

Yeah, I remember the 3M offices on Sherwood. If you don't mind me asking, about what years did you work there, '70s, '80s or later?

Back in the early '70s I remember my dad taking us to the Eller Outdoor plant on Custer and we picked up one of their unused paper signs for us kids to play with. It was interesting to see the area where they painted their signs, similar to as you described it at 3M. As a child, I always found it fascinating to watch those guys paste up the paper sheets on the neighborhood signs. Today, neither painting or paper are used on billboards. That's definitely an industry that's gone through some major changes over the last decade or so.

[bc_n_dtown]

mtburb,
I'm beginning to rethink my previous comments on how 3M arrived in Detroit. The more I think about it, I believe 3M National arrived in Detroit some years after the Townsend Sign Co. left the billboard business. It looks like Eller Outdoor [[1969-1979) acquired many [[if not all) of the former Townsend bulletin billboards around town [[including those Goodyear auto production signs) shortly after they arrived in Detroit. I'm thinking 3M arrived here during the 1970s and focused erecting their own panels along the area's freeways, especially along I-96 after it opened during the 1970s. Since Eller was the major billboard company in town during that time, 3M gradually crept in basically unnoticed. Maybe someone else here can enlighten us on when 3M actually arrived in town.

Also, regarding Ted Turner, he inherited Turner Outdoor Adv. from his father after he committed suicide in 1963. Turner Outdoor operated primarily in the Southeast states.

[iheartthed]

I didn't realize that CBS Outdoor acquired Viacom. Doesn't Detroit also have a lot of Clear Channel structures?

[bc_n_dtown]

I didn't realize that CBS Outdoor acquired Viacom. Doesn't Detroit also have a lot of Clear Channel structures?

Well actually, CBS Outdoor never acquired Viacom Outdoor, it was one of those corporate-world reorganization things.
First there was Viacom Inc., which owned CBS-TV, CBS Radio, local TV and radio stations, UPN network, cable TV networks [[MTV, Nickelodeon, TNN, CMT, BET, etc.), movie theaters, Blockbuster Video, Viacom Outdoor, and the list goes on and on. However, in December 2005, it was decided that the giant media conglomerate would split into two separate newly created companies. The vast majority of the empire was renamed CBS Corporation, with a new spin-off company named, [[guess what?) "Viacom Inc." The new Viacom would focus primarily on cinema [[Paramount's movie studio, Paramount Pictures, Viacom International, etc.) and cable television networks [[MTV, BET, Comedy Central, Logo, Spike, etc., etc.), while the rest of the empire [[over-the-air broadcasting, TV production, subscription pay television, etc.) would become CBS Corp. Consequently, Viacom's former billboard company [[Viacom Outdoor) became part of the CBS Corp., and hence the name change to CBS Outdoor.

According to Clear Channel Outdoor's website, they don't own any billboards in the Detroit market.

[iheartthed]

According to Clear Channel Outdoor's website, they don't own any billboards in the Detroit market.

Ah okay, I knew one of the big ones didn't operate in Detroit but I thought it was Lamar instead of Clear Channel.

[leapfrog]

Yeah, I remember the 3M offices on Sherwood. If you don't mind me asking, about what years did you work there, '70s, '80s or later?

Back in the early '70s I remember my dad taking us to the Eller Outdoor plant on Custer and we picked up one of their unused paper signs for us kids to play with. It was interesting to see the area where they painted their signs, similar to as you described it at 3M. As a child, I always found it fascinating to watch those guys paste up the paper sheets on the neighborhood signs. Today, neither painting or paper are used on billboards. That's definitely an industry that's gone through some major changes over the last decade or so.

This was the late 70's/early 80's.
I use to do the same thing with the paper signs at National! :-)

[mtburb]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I think I may have found an image that shows how I most likely remembered the way Gannett Outdoor's logo was displayed [[and it wasn't how I was displaying them on my Sketchup depictions of them so far-and yes, can you believe the owners of the Freep and USA Today once were in the billboard business?). And I would like to know the history of outdoor advertising companies Downriver, was it exactly the same as the city of Detroit's?

This is only quasi-related but 3M National had its business office and signage work area for many years on Sherwood between 8 Mile and Outer Drive. As a teenager, one of my first jobs was cleaning their offices in the evenings.
I used to LOVE that job because it gave me the opportunity to go into the work areas and see the billboards being created prior to being taken to the assembly point. It was fascinating to watch the process of designing the advertisement on paper, and then enlarging it by using a projector to put it up onto a wall [[this was all pre-PC days mind you).

In the last building is where they would put up the sections of billboard to be painted. Once completed they would be disassembled for transportation to the final assembly site. I would imagine these days they no longer actually paint billboards.

Anyway, I apologize for the thread-jack. Interesting topic and it got me thinking about my early work years!

I think this explains why there's an off-freeway Lamar billboard on 8 Mile Road just west of Sherwood.

And this is also just semi-related, but do you know a company named Gateway Outdoor that owns those real tiny billboards across Detroit? I wondered if Gannett Outdoor ever owned those billboards, since the frames appear to be white, identical to the photo I posted.

[bc_n_dtown]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I think I may have found an image that shows how I most likely remembered the way Gannett Outdoor's logo was displayed [[and it wasn't how I was displaying them on my Sketchup depictions of them so far-and yes, can you believe the owners of the Freep and USA Today once were in the billboard business?).





I think this explains why there's an off-freeway Lamar billboard on 8 Mile Road just west of Sherwood.

And this is also just semi-related, but do you know a company named Gateway Outdoor that owns those real tiny billboards across Detroit? I wondered if Gannett Outdoor ever owned those billboards, since the frames appear to be white, identical to the photo I posted.

Yep, that was the way Gannett Outdoor displayed their logo. They were also the company that changed the frames from the original light gray to white after they took over Eller Outdoor in 1979. CBS Outdoor just recently completed replacing all the old wide frames with the narrow brown ones.

Regarding Gateway Outdoor, no, Gannett never owned those boards. A few of them use to belong to a smaller company named Campbell Sign Co. during the 1960s/70s. Gateway hit town with a bang sometime during the mid-80s and placed their boards everywhere, resulting in an anti-billboard uproar from then WC commissioner Alberta Tinsley-Williams. But that's another story. Gateway seems to have abandoned most of their boards in recent years.

[mtburb]

Yep, that was the way Gannett Outdoor displayed their logo. They were also the company that changed the frames from the original light gray to white after they took over Eller Outdoor in 1979. CBS Outdoor just recently completed replacing all the old wide frames with the narrow brown ones.

So, does this mean even the Gannett white frames on the vertically-stacked billboards at Grand River Avenue and Canfield Street have been replaced [[as well as another white-framed structure further up Grand River at the railroad overpass)? A 2011 Google Street View image still shows the white frames, so it should've been very recently [[plus, the bottom one appears to be very similar to the photo I posted, but with the Gannett logo replaced by a CBS one hung from the catwalk in front, of course).

Gateway seems to have abandoned most of their boards in recent years.

Sounds about right, because another 2011 Street View image of a Gateway structure well further up Grand River [[at Cloverlawn Street) shows the eastward-facing advertising area to be empty, except for a little piece at the bottom right that reads "RICT COURT; er 2, 2010".

[bc_n_dtown]

So, does this mean even the Gannett white frames on the vertically-stacked billboards at Grand River Avenue and Canfield Street have been replaced [[as well as another white-framed structure further up Grand River at the railroad overpass)? A 2011 Google Street View image still shows the white frames, so it should've been very recently [[plus, the bottom one appears to be very similar to the photo I posted, but with the Gannett logo replaced by a CBS one hung from the catwalk in front, of course).

CBS went on an aggressive campaign during the second half of 2013 to convert the remainder of their boards over to the new frame design. Of course I haven't been around the entire city, but the last white frame I've seen was early/mid December. I haven't been along that part of Grand River recently, but if it hasn't been done yet its days are numbered.

I ran across a few crews doing the change-over during the last few months. Even though the display area remained the same size, they literally cut off the excess on the sides where the old frames were.

It was either Infinity or Viacom [[I'm thinking Viacom) that began displaying their name along the catwalk.

[mtburb]

Well, I believe I just found something unusual: as of 2012 [[and it's probably still there), there is a former billboard placed on the roof of a building on Michigan Avenue between Junction and Livernois that still has an Eller Outdoor logo at the bottom! Here's that ex-billboard in question. Have you noticed any other former billboards that still have/had logos of defunct billboard companies in southeast Michigan?

[mtburb]

CBS went on an aggressive campaign during the second half of 2013 to convert the remainder of their boards over to the new frame design. Of course I haven't been around the entire city, but the last white frame I've seen was early/mid December. I haven't been along that part of Grand River recently, but if it hasn't been done yet its days are numbered.

I ran across a few crews doing the change-over during the last few months. Even though the display area remained the same size, they literally cut off the excess on the sides where the old frames were.

It was either Infinity or Viacom [[I'm thinking Viacom) that began displaying their name along the catwalk.

I know this is a double-post, but I believe that about 10-15 years ago, either Infinity or Viacom removed the last of the suburban white frames, however, the new frame is a lot smaller, resulting in a small gap between the frame and the catwalk on older billboards [[there are a few CBS structures in Wyandotte that have that gap, indicating that they were former Gannett structures).

I couldn't understand why Infinity or Viacom decided to place their logos on the catwalks on the white-frame structures, when they could've easily placed it on the top frame, like how Gannett displayed their name [[in fact, CBS still placed their logo on the top frame of remaining white-frame structures in the Flint area).

Finally, as for the last white frame I saw, it was on July 14, 2012 on Fort Street across from Woodmere Cemetery [[unless I remember seeing one more recent than that).

Plus, Infinity Outdoor's logo was an oval shape [[as seen below), so that is likely why most Viacom and CBS signage was/is also oval-shaped.


EDIT: Actually, I believe the last suburban white frame I saw was on the Taylor side of Pennsylvania Road east of Inkster Road a couple years back. Plus, a CBS structure a few blocks from my house used to have a white frame up until a couple years back as well.

[bc_n_dtown]

Well, I believe I just found something unusual: as of 2012 [[and it's probably still there), there is a former billboard placed on the roof of a building on Michigan Avenue between Junction and Livernois that still has an Eller Outdoor logo at the bottom! Here's that ex-billboard in question. Have you noticed any other former billboards that still have/had logos of defunct billboard companies in southeast Michigan?

The reason for the Eller logo still being displayed is a number of succeeding companies after Naegele [[Eller, Gannett Outdoor, Outdoor Systems) just used an adhesive type sticker to cover over the preceding company. Over time the name plates just fell off.

I remember a building with a rooftop billboard on E. 8 Mile was destroyed by a fire about a decade ago. Of course the paper billboard ad had burned off, but so did the current company's logo. However, the original Naegele nameplate from the 1960s survived.

BTW--Here's how Naegele Outdoor Adv. [[the 2nd in the chain of companies - 1962-1969) displayed their name back then.

[mtburb]

I remember a building with a rooftop billboard on E. 8 Mile was destroyed by a fire about a decade ago. Of course the paper billboard ad had burned off, but so did the current company's logo. However, the original Naegele nameplate from the 1960s survived.

You just made me wonder if whatever nameplate the rooftop billboard had at the time burned off along with the Old Redford building it was on did when it was destroyed in 2006.

And do you remember the cross street of that building on 8 Mile?

[bc_n_dtown]

You just made me wonder if whatever nameplate the rooftop billboard had at the time burned off along with the Old Redford building it was on did when it was destroyed in 2006.

And do you remember the cross street of that building on 8 Mile?

I remember seeing that Gd River/Lahser fire on the news. The tread was dated Nov 2006, so it probably already had the CBS logo by then, which took over Viacom in late 2005/early 2006.

The building I was referring to was on the north side of East 8 Mile, I believe between Dequindre and Hoover [[maybe). Don't remember the cross street.

[bc_n_dtown]

I know this is a double-post, but I believe that about 10-15 years ago, either Infinity or Viacom removed the last of the suburban white frames, however, the new frame is a lot smaller, resulting in a small gap between the frame and the catwalk on older billboards [[there are a few CBS structures in Wyandotte that have that gap, indicating that they were former Gannett structures).

I couldn't understand why Infinity or Viacom decided to place their logos on the catwalks on the white-frame structures, when they could've easily placed it on the top frame, like how Gannett displayed their name.

Well, I wouldn't say all of their suburban signs because the last white frame billboards I saw were in Ferndale [[9 Mile - Livernois), which were converted right before this past Christmas.

Actually, the narrow frames began sometime under the Infinity/Viacom era [[1999-2006) and slowly continued under CBS. I'm assuming the logo was moved to the catwalk in anticipation of the eventual changeover.

However, these all originally had "rounded" corners, not the squared corners liked the ones today. During the last few years or so under CBS, all of the boards were changed over [[including the rounded corner ones). Here's a photo from Dec 2006, showing the former design...

[bc_n_dtown]

Here's the way they all look today under CBS Outdoor...

[mtburb]

Well, I've found this page on the CBS Outdoor website that features a map of every structure they own in Detroit [[including bus stop shelters), plus photos of most of them. Many of these photos show CBS nameplates, but plenty show Viacom and Infinity nameplates and even quite a few feature [[albeit mostly blurry) Outdoor Systems and Gannett Outdoor nameplates!

Click this link, then zoom in on Detroit, click "show media", then when a new window pops up, click on "select all" and check it out!