Prosecutor considering Charles Pugh warrant

**Pazen Hingree** · October-08-13, 10:42 PM

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/prosecutors-review-charles-pugh-criminal-complaint

looks like jessica cooper has a decision to make

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · October-08-13, 10:50 PM

This is clearly why Charles "Gives Us Gays A Bad Name" Pugh never returned to Detroit after he skipped town. I think they were hoping to catch him on a return visit; now they'll have to extradite. I mean, not only did he not resign from his job, he had someone go to his house to get and send him personal belongings. Not normal human conduct, let alone for a city councilman. I mean, really. Taking advantage of a kid and then skipping town to beat the rap. Dirtbag with a capital D.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-09-13, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

This is clearly why Charles "Gives Us Gays A Bad Name" Pugh never returned to Detroit after he skipped town. I think they were hoping to catch him on a return visit; now they'll have to extradite. I mean, not only did he not resign from his job, he had someone go to his house to get and send him personal belongings. Not normal human conduct, let alone for a city councilman. I mean, really. Taking advantage of a kid and then skipping town to beat the rap. Dirtbag with a capital D.

But I was assured by members of DYES that Pugh only fled his position because of the harsh comments made about him on this site.

It's obvious that he has something to hide. He may not be guilty of this, but something is seriously wrong. He didn't flee for no reason.

**motz** · October-09-13, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

But I was assured by members of DYES that Pugh only fled his position because of the harsh comments made about him on this site.

It's obvious that he has something to hide. He may not be guilty of this, but something is seriously wrong. He didn't flee for no reason.

How long did a lot of us harp on him for abandoning the city he cares about so much and refusing to say a word about anything? Seriously, he showed some promise when he first started out, but shortly after it appears the JoAnn Watson infectious worm got to him and he turned into an outright terrible person.

**iheartthed** · October-09-13, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

But I was assured by members of DYES that Pugh only fled his position because of the harsh comments made about him on this site.

It's obvious that he has something to hide. He may not be guilty of this, but something is seriously wrong. He didn't flee for no reason.

I'm not the biggest fan of Charles Pugh, but if he were a married heterosexual man this wouldn't have even made the news. Nobody would have thought twice about it. Considering that inherent bias against him his decision to leave town makes sense. It's not like he's been trying that hard to hide. If the authorities want to find him they can do so pretty easily.

**bailey** · October-09-13, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not the biggest fan of Charles Pugh, but if he were a married heterosexual man this wouldn't have even made the news. Nobody would have thought twice about it. Considering that inherent bias against him his decision to leave town makes sense. It's not like he's been trying that hard to hide. If the authorities want to find him they can do so pretty easily.

I beg to differ. If he was a married man and was in this situation with a high school girl he was mentoring, it would be every bit the story. Regardless of how well he is hiding out, the fact is he took off and has refused to return to even move out of his condo. I mean, there are better ways to deal with a situation like this than that. His own actions have made him look incredibly guilty.

Look he CLEARLY exercised some terrible judgement. However, I image this has more to do with a mother blaming Pugh for her son being gay than it has anything to do with criminal or predatory actions on Pugh's part. Its only in the realm of criminality because of Pugh being a "mentor" and attached to a school [[which is why this was a civil suit...CHA-ching!... in the first place). Had Pugh just met the kid at Starbucks [[16 is the age of consent in Michigan) and engaged in the same activity, there would be no allegations of criminal conduct.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-09-13, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not the biggest fan of Charles Pugh, but if he were a married heterosexual man this wouldn't have even made the news. Nobody would have thought twice about it. Considering that inherent bias against him his decision to leave town makes sense. It's not like he's been trying that hard to hide. If the authorities want to find him they can do so pretty easily.

That inherent bias got him elected City Council President on his first run. I could care less what his preference is, as long as it is between consenting adults. He should have stayed and fought the charges [[if any were ever filed) if he has nothing to hide. Notice this guy didn't run to Ohio or Wisconsin, this dude ran to both coasts [[i.e.: as far as he could get away from Detroit).

**bailey** · October-09-13, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

That inherent bias got him elected City Council President on his first run. I could care less what his preference is, as long as it is between consenting adults.

...to the extent anything went on... the "victim" in question was above the age of consent in Michigan. The only criminal element is attached by way of Pugh being a Mentor at the school.

**Crumbled_pavement** · October-09-13, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

...to the extent anything went on... the "victim" in question was above the age of consent in Michigan. The only criminal element is attached by way of Pugh being a Mentor at the school.

Again, Pugh should have hung around and faced charges [[if any were even filed). If he did nothing wrong then he would have nothing to worry about. There may be bias against members of the LGBT community, but such bias didn't prevent Pugh from being elected president of the city council on his very first campaign ever. So, I'm quite confident if he is innocent of any criminal actions he would have no problem either avoiding charges being filed or beating whatever bogus charges were filed. He fled for a reason. I'm less likely to see him as innocent for fleeing than if he had of stayed. Largely because I didn't even hear about this alleged transgression until after he went missing.

**motz** · October-09-13, 12:44 PM

Seriously, using the fact that he is homosexual to say THAT is why this attracted attention is a load of bull. This would've been news regardless. Just as Godbee's relationship was news. Just like KK's Beattie thing was news. You get where I am going, if its juicy, we love it around here. Homosexual or not.

**Honky Tonk** · October-09-13, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I beg to differ. If he was a married man and was in this situation with a high school girl he was mentoring, it would be every bit the story. Regardless of how well he is hiding out, the fact is he took off and has refused to return to even move out of his condo. I mean, there are better ways to deal with a situation like this than that. His own actions have made him look incredibly guilty.

Look he CLEARLY exercised some terrible judgement. However, I image this has more to do with a mother blaming Pugh for her son being gay than it has anything to do with criminal or predatory actions on Pugh's part. Its only in the realm of criminality because of Pugh being a "mentor" and attached to a school [[which is why this was a civil suit...CHA-ching!... in the first place). Had Pugh just met the kid at Starbucks [[16 is the age of consent in Michigan) and engaged in the same activity, there would be no allegations of criminal conduct.

Sorry, I don't buy that. Legally, he might have been off of the hook, but morally? A man his age having relations with a 16 year old he met @ Four Bucks? I think it would have raised a few eyebrows just the same. Just as if he were hetrosexual, and was lavishing a high school girl with gifts and money.

**Gistok** · October-09-13, 01:01 PM

Does everyone here really understand the difference between a CIVIL and a CRIMINAL case. A civil case [[which is all it has been so far) requires no accountability for where you live or work. Pugh may have been avoiding getting subpoena-ed for a Civil suit deposition. Nothing more. Why do some of you seem so indignant over someone avoiding a civil suit subpeona? This happens thousands of times every day!

Just recently criminal investigations are underway to warrant his arrest... but I'm not sure if he can be extradicted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradi..._United_States

Time will tell.

But merely avoiding a subpoena is not illegal...
http://www.justanswer.com/law/12efr-...ubpoenaed.html

**bailey** · October-09-13, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Again, Pugh should have hung around and faced charges [[if any were even filed). If he did nothing wrong then he would have nothing to worry about. There may be bias against members of the LGBT community, but such bias didn't prevent Pugh from being elected president of the city council on his very first campaign ever. So, I'm quite confident if he is innocent of any criminal actions he would have no problem either avoiding charges being filed or beating whatever bogus charges were filed. He fled for a reason. I'm less likely to see him as innocent for fleeing than if he had of stayed. Largely because I didn't even hear about this alleged transgression until after he went missing.

Well, charges weren't filed initially. However, this is the issue with strict liability laws. He may have done nothing "wrong" but he may have done something "illegal". presumably he fled because regardless if the "victim" initiated the conduct or the "victim" consented to Pugh's advances, if there was any hanky panky, Pugh knows it's CSC III [[felony, sexual penetration or a bj) or IV [[misdemeanor, HJ on down) The issue is that there is no defense to the charge. I suppose his logic was he had nothing to lose in leaving.

The equation goes like this: Pugh was a mentor at a school + the kid was 16-18 and a mentee at the school + there was some bow-chicka-bow wow = CSC = End of life as Chuck knows it..

I imagine he hoped to get very far from the problem and hope it went away.

The only issue will be if the sex stuff happened after the kid was 18, I mean then it's just what? contributing to the delinquency of a Minor? but IIRC the news said he was 17 at the time.

**bailey** · October-09-13, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Sorry, I don't buy that. Legally, he might have been off of the hook, but morally? A man his age having relations with a 16 year old he met @ Four Bucks? I think it would have raised a few eyebrows just the same. Just as if he were hetrosexual, and was lavishing a high school girl with gifts and money.

It would have raised some eyebrows, sure... and likely ended in the same fashion; Pugh slinking off into the abyss. HOWEVER, it wouldn't have been criminal.

**iheartthed** · October-09-13, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I beg to differ. If he was a married man and was in this situation with a high school girl he was mentoring, it would be every bit the story.

Even if is was someone he was known to be mentoring through his own outreach program? I'm not so sure that the suspicion would be that strong... But that's neither here or there. AFAIK, Pugh isn't being charged with having an inappropriately sexual relationship with this kid or any other kid. He's also not accused of even having a relationship of sexual nature with this kid. These are all insinuations being made because of his sexual orientation.

**bailey** · October-09-13, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Even if is was someone he was known to be mentoring through his own outreach program? I'm not so sure that the suspicion would be that strong... But that's neither here or there. AFAIK, Pugh isn't being charged with having an inappropriately sexual relationship with this kid or any other kid. He's also not accused of even having a relationship of sexual nature with this kid. These are all insinuations being made because of his sexual orientation.

He hasn't been charged with anything... yet... yes. However, do you uproot and burn down your life over a possibility that you might get charged with some misdemeanor over taking a kid out to buy some clothes?

I'm thinking that mom has some reason to be gunning for Pugh over those "inappropriate texts" and those texts show that something more was going on.

**iheartthed** · October-09-13, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I'm thinking that mom has some reason to be gunning for Pugh over those "inappropriate texts" and those texts show that something more was going on.

The reason I don't agree is that even if that there did exist messages between him and the kid of sexual nature, it wouldn't be illegal. The cops would've dismissed it a long time ago since the kid is of age. What I suspect is happening is that Pugh did something else technically illegal and that's being used to insinuate that there was an inappropriate relationship... because of his sexuality.

I'm speculating, of course, and if something more comes out [[no pun) then I'll gladly eat those words. But now this is just looking like a witch hunt with a tinge of homophobia...

**bailey** · October-09-13, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The reason I don't agree is that even if that there did exist messages between him and the kid of sexual nature, it wouldn't be illegal. The cops would've dismissed it a long time ago since the kid is of age. What I suspect is happening is that Pugh did something else technically illegal and that's being used to insinuate that there was an inappropriate relationship... because of his sexuality.

His age is irrelevant if he was under 18. This wasn't a random kid, it was a kid at a school taking part in a mentoring program run by Pugh.
If the texts were of the "sexting" variety, I think they still get to CSC IV...especially if there were junk shots. I think the interest level in this is about where it is whenever a teacher does inappropriate things with a student...if not kicked up a notch because of Pugh's celebrity.

I would agree with you that this is a homo-slam on Pugh if it was just some random kid he met out and about... but it's not. Pugh's actions after the issue came to light aren't exactly helping either.

**iheartthed** · October-09-13, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

His age is irrelevant if he was under 18. This wasn't a random kid, it was a kid at a school taking part in a mentoring program run by Pugh.
If the texts were of the "sexting" variety, I think they still get to CSC IV...especially if there were junk shots. I think the interest level in this is about where it is whenever a teacher does inappropriate things with a student...if not kicked up a notch because of Pugh's celebrity.

So I still am skeptical that this is a CSC charge because if that is what is under suspicion then the most logical jurisdiction to press the charge would be Detroit. The alleged crime would have presumably occurred in Detroit and also the district for which CSC 4th degree would apply is also under Detroit jurisdiction, right? Does the wording "criminal complaint" even presume that this is indeed a felony charge that they're considering?

**aj3647** · October-09-13, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's not like he's been trying that hard to hide.

From the article:

When we questioned him about the gifts by phone earlier this year, he agreed to be interviewed. But days before we were scheduled to sit down with him, Pugh deleted his social media accounts, changed his cell phone number and fled the state.

Well clearly he's just taking a little vacation. I know I delete my social media accounts and change my cell phone number multiple times whenever I leave the state.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm not the biggest fan of Charles Pugh, but if he were a married heterosexual man this wouldn't have even made the news. Nobody would have thought twice about it.

Yeah sexual indiscretions involving heterosexual married men NEVER make the news. Just ask Anthony Weiner!

Originally Posted by iheartthed

So I still am skeptical that this is a CSC charge because if that is what is under suspicion then the most logical jurisdiction to press the charge would be Detroit. The alleged crime would have presumably occurred in Detroit

Did you even bother to read the article? The young man in question claims that Charles Pugh sexually touched him in a parking lot in Madison Heights. Not Detroit.

**Pazen Hingree** · October-09-13, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Does everyone here really understand the difference between a CIVIL and a CRIMINAL case. A civil case [[which is all it has been so far)

Actually it's been neither. No civil suit has been filed. And a criminal complaint is only being reviewed right now by the prosecutor.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · October-09-13, 07:35 PM

Pugh has engaged in extreme flight behavior that does make him look very guilty. To those who are citing the age of consent as a defense for Pugh, I would just suggest that we don't know 2 things: how early, exactly, the relationship started; and also if there are others. Pedophiles [[and other sexual predators) don't tend to act once in isolation. You can be sure law enforcement is pouring over every credit card transaction and phone record of Pugh's in the last number of years, and interviewing every boy he ever mentored. I get especially angry at gay sex offenders because it plays into a homophobic view that some people have that gays are "deviant". Many gay men are school teachers or counselors; it is not fair that one p-o-s like Charles Pugh will cause some of them to be looked at suspiciously.

**iheartthed** · October-09-13, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by aj3647

Did you even bother to read the article? The young man in question claims that Charles Pugh sexually touched him in a parking lot in Madison Heights. Not Detroit.

I didn't see that in the article before. I take back what I said.

**bailey** · October-10-13, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Pugh has engaged in extreme flight behavior that does make him look very guilty. Tothose who are citing the age of consent as a defense for Pugh, I would just suggest that we don't know 2 things: how early, exactly, the relationship started; and also if there are others. Pedophiles [[and other sexual predators) don't tend to act once in isolation.

If there were evidence of him going after under 16 year olds, we'd have heard it by now. Let's not conflate pedophilia [[sexual attraction to prepubescent kids) with liking to date younger guys [[which...allegedly, Pugh has a bit of a reputation for doing).

You can be sure law enforcement is pouring over every credit card transaction and phone record of Pugh's in the last number of years, and interviewing every boy he ever mentored.

They may be talking to other guys in the program, but they aren't pouring over anything until they get a warrant or charge him...which they haven't done.

I get especially angry at gay sex offenders because it plays into a homophobic view that some people have that gays are "deviant". Many gay men are school teachers or counselors; it is not fair that one p-o-s like Charles Pugh will cause some of them to be looked at suspiciously.

I don't think its limited to gay males...its a blanket accusation against males in general. I have two male teacher friends [[hetero) that won't be alone in any way, ever with any female student. Really any student, but especially the girls.