Will there for Civil unrest if the U.S. goes into a Debt Ceiling default?

[rb336]

Switzerland is a bunch of commies

[punky1]

The Canadians would love to have Michigan in their country. We just let the parliament know that the Province of Michigan is part of Canada. I might start a petition a secede Michigan from the union and annex to Canada if Congress don't act to open government and raise the debt ceiling.

Go for it!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Papasito]

I really don't see a problem with this.
I don't think the White House should have "soundly" rejected it.

The White House soundly rejected a House plan to avoid default.

The measure would suspend a new tax on medical devices for two years and take away the federal government's health care contributions to lawmakers and top administration officials. It would also fund the government through Jan. 15 and give Treasury the ability to borrow normally through Feb. 7.

http://news.msn.com/us/house-gop-flo...nate-debt-plan

[Danny]

Well I will get a petition ready to WhiteHouse.gov. to have Michigan secede from United States and join Canada.

[Lily]

Not sure about that Danny, but we sure do need to do some serious thinking about the idiots we have elected in all parties........and get beyond thinking and do something. Enough already. The 16th isn't weeks or months from now. It is now. Washington is making the US look stupid. They need to do something NOW, not at 11:59 pm on the 15th, and not something that is only a 3 month bandage. And the really sad part is the number of people [[Not directed to people reading this forum)....who couldn't tell you what the shutdown was about if they had to. [[Stepping down again from soapbox). Lily

[Danny]

Wait until midtern elections next year. The American People will vote new people into Congress, not those yahoos like John Boenher and John Cantor. They do not PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE for the American People.

In the meantime I will make a petition to free and independent Nation of Michigan from United States. Who's with me?

[Lily]

I hope so Danny, i really hope so. So many people just have this "shrug" attitude [[ again....not here). Things are just not going to get better, we have to make them better, people have to let the politicians know.....from the President, down to local officials....enough...no more games....do what is best for all the people, only small special interest groups, clean it up. Now.

i get can be a bit verbose on this topic..sorry. I just deleted another paragraph listing lots of the "no more" items. Lily

[old guy]

The problem I see, vote new people into congress, who will they be, what will the changes be? All the politicians these days seem to be, well, pretty much in lockstep with the same greedy, self serving, lobbiest supporters that have no priorities for the interests of the American citizens. How do we resolve this?

[Crumbled_pavement]

How do we resolve this?

We don't. Humans are ungovernable. It's like herding cats.

[Zacha341]

Someone I know, disabled said his food stamp amount was reduced with a letter informing him that the reason was because of the gov. shut down. Anyone else know of these cases?

[Gistok]

1:15PM... the US Senate has passed a bipartisan budget deal... now has to go to the US House...

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/nationa...an-budget-deal

[Danny]

YAY! the house passed bipartisan budget deal to open government and raise the debt ceiling. THE SHUTDOWN IS OVER!

[Wingnatic]

Someone I know, disabled said his food stamp amount was reduced with a letter informing him that the reason was because of the gov. shut down. Anyone else know of these cases?

My sisters notice said this :'' Effective No.1st , 2013 your Food Assistance Program [[FAP) benefits are decreasing because extra benefits provided by the federal governments American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 , sometimes called the stimulus , have ended . '' She was getting 200 bones a month and now she will be getting 189

[Zacha341]

^^^ Aha! The Gov. giveth, the Gov. taketh away... that's the way of it!

[coracle]

It's a great pity the Republicans/Tea Party didn't have the balls to force the Government to shutdown, produce a Budget and live within it.
In round figures Detroit's debt of $18 billion which is approx $25,000 debt for every man woman and child; whereas America's debt is $17 trillion which is approx $57,000 for every person. America is Detroit on steroids. Looking at it another way every Detroiter is in debt for $82,000 - but we keep borrowing hoping tomorrow will never come. [[don't know what the State debt would add - probably will push it over the $100k)
PS America is in a far deeper hole than Detroit and yet Detroit is bankrupt.
PPS to Danny. Better find out if you can carry your debts with you to Canada or have to pay them before you cede. Do you know they'll have you?

[oladub]

Coracle, if the rate of interest the federal government pays on its debt even increases to its historical norm of 5.8%, the average US taxpayer will have to pay $8,200 annually just to service the interest on the federal debt which will probably destroy our economy and all those programs RINOs and Democrats are so fond of. Will the interest rate EVER climb back to its historical norm? Probably. We should enjoy this bubble while we can because things will most likely get grim.

There were billions of pork in the Senate bill. McConnell's Kentucky was a prime recepient. Worse, Congress handed over some of its delegated power to the executive branch. Congress allowed the President to raise the debt limit however much he wants. Congress now is required to come up with an impossible 2/3 majority to override the president instead of the constitutionally required simple majority. It was a partial enabling act. I remember when Congress gave Bush its power to decide whether to go to war in Iraq. That mistake left 4,000 Americans dead. Now Congress has given this spendthrift President a blank check. I doubt this will work out much better.

[rb336]

Ah, I see Econ 101 was a bit much for some people.

Here are the largest loaners:
1) Social Security
2) Federal Reserve
3) Veteran disability and retirement
4) Federal employee retirement*
5) China*
6) Japan*
7) US investors*
8) Caribbean banks
9) Oil exporters [[mostly Canada)

*These are all around the 1 Trillion mark. exact rank depends on a number of things including currency fluctuations, counting method, trade deficit. China and Japan combined don't equal Social Security. ALL foreign debt holdings are about equal to Social Security and the Fed. We owe the vast majority of the money TO OURSELVES, which is far different from Detroit's situation.

[oladub]

President Clinton raided Social Security funds and left it with IOUs. I guess you are right that now we owe it to ourselves. We still have to pay back the seniors and federal workers whose money was borrowed. Why should that make us feel better? Before, we didn't owe "ourselves" anything. We still owe $17T and have to pay the interest on it not including the President's new power to raise the debt ceiling almost unchallenged. I did read in one place that it is only until February that the President has this new unconstitutional power.

The Federal Reserve is not "ourselves" though. It is owned by banks.

[coracle]

Ah, I see Econ 101 was a bit much for some people.

Here are the largest loaners:
1) Social Security
2) Federal Reserve
3) Veteran disability and retirement
4) Federal employee retirement*
5) China*
6) Japan*
7) US investors*
8) Caribbean banks
9) Oil exporters [[mostly Canada)

*These are all around the 1 Trillion mark. exact rank depends on a number of things including currency fluctuations, counting method, trade deficit. China and Japan combined don't equal Social Security. ALL foreign debt holdings are about equal to Social Security and the Fed. We owe the vast majority of the money TO OURSELVES, which is far different from Detroit's situation.

rb336.
See - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreyd...t-an-increase/ to put some actual figures on the various payments you list. Soc. Sec. is the FICA TAX we pay which is 15% of our Salary. We shouldn't have to borrow this unless our government is giving it to someone else and then having to borrow it from China to pay it back. It is FULLY FUNDED.

[Danny]

The shutdown showdown may be over, but I will put the request for Michigan independence from The United States on hold until the U.S. government fail to raise the debt ceiling on February 7th 2014.

By then I will have hundreds of my supporters.

FREE MICHIGAN!

[Papasito]

The Government created it's own problems, the Government shut down, and then they found a way to push their problems off for a few months, and applaud themselves for it. Pathetic.

[oladub]

The federal debt just increased $328B in one day; a new government record. How could this be? Answer: The government just kept spending and cannibalized various accounts to do so. The $328B was mostly used to refill these accounts. Now President Obama even has the power to raise the debt ceiling as high as he wants and the Democratic senate allow him to fund some of his executive orders. Its like the White House version of all those Walmart shoppers filling their shopping carts in Louisiana. The President is probably wondering why China just lowered its US credit rating.

[Zacha341]

^^^ He should not wonder...

[Zacha341]

Yep. Kick-the-can-down-the-road politics... and we go along with it. And more is spent:

Default, default again, once more... again... default.

Then finally there's the day of reckoning. It will not be a good time.

PS. Is that photo Photshopped? Or perhaps it could use some Photoshop. Ick!

The Government created it's own problems, the Government shut down, and then they found a way to push their problems off for a few months, and applaud themselves for it. Pathetic.

[rb336]

China didn't, their version of S&P did. And it's funny to have China bitch when the only reason their "official" debt is low is because they create corporations that bear the burden of those debts. Add the debts held by Chinese pseudo-corporations and their debt is double ours