What if Windsor was part of the US?

**nain rouge** · September-29-13, 11:04 PM

I've long thought that Michigan was screwed in a sense by having cities like Detroit, Port Huron, and Sault Ste. Marie cut off politically and economically from the natural extensions of each respective metro by an arbitrary border. Think about it. What would Cleveland be like, for example, if it hadn't been able to annex Ohio City on the other side of the river because Ohio City was in another flippin' country? Or if San Francisco residents couldn't drive to Oakland without first going through border patrol? And need I mention Brooklyn and Manhattan? All would've been huge game changers, but we never really think about the impact similar factors have had on Detroit because the division between the city and Windsor was already so historic by the time Detroit really boomed.

Just look at all the supposed positives we're supposed to receive from this bridge deal with Canada. Now imagine if such negotiations didn't have to be brokered between two sovereign nations, but were instead handled within a single city or truly unified metropolitan area? The gains in efficiency would be immense. Instead, we have competing casinos and other nonsense. Bah.

Ah, if only Canadians knew what was good for 'em.

**rb336** · September-29-13, 11:14 PM

i'd rather see us join them

**Bobl** · September-30-13, 12:03 AM

I'm with rb336. They take care of their own, and rarely kill each other.

**Thruster315** · September-30-13, 01:02 AM

You're looking at it geographically that since the two cities are so close together they should be one. But on a social scale, what's in it for the people of Windsor to become Detroiters any more than they already are?

They hardly seem to have the amount of crime we have here and like Bobl said, they take care of their own just fine. It's not to say Windsor's some Utopia but I think they have more advantages of being uniquely their own entity as opposed to being a part of the US.

A prime example of how Canada takes advantage of the situation is with the currency exchange. Go to any Windsor establishment with US money and they'll let you spend it there at some offbeat rate as a convenience. The business at the end of the day takes that US money you just gave them, goes to their banks and makes a few additional cents off that US dollar in the exchange. Smart business. Now how many Detroit businesses here even within a few blocks of the tunnel or bridge are savvy enough to eke out that little bit of exchange? Most Canadian money here is looked upon with disdain and is hardly accepted at most banks with the exception of the larger ones downtown.

The Canadians are making it convenient for American shoppers and skimming a fair shake for their efforts. The US dollar there is welcomed. And conversely we treat our neighbors to the South here as if they're an inconvenience. Talk about being not being consumer friendly even though there can be money to be made off of them for doing a daily chore such as going to the bank.

And I'm sure there are a multitude of other things that make us Americans look like lazy luddites too compared to the Canadian lifestyle.

If anything, if only we silly Americans knew what was good for us- we'd be following their lead.

**MikeyinBrooklyn** · September-30-13, 01:38 AM

RB336 & Bobl: We also rarely kill each other, outside of inner cities. Detroit in Canada would have just as many murders. Additionally, our murder also declines in cold weather, in sparsely populated areas, and where 2 parent families are intact. Are young men in Detroit dealing drugs and joining gangs out of frustration with not being Canadian?

Also, Bobl, what do you mean by "take care of their own?" Do you think there isn't a plethora of [[very expensive) social welfare programs here?

**Hermod** · September-30-13, 04:43 AM

St Paul and Minneapolis are on opposite sides of a river and didn't become one city. While Manhattan and Brooklyn combined, the cities on the New Jersey shore didn't become part of New York.

**poobert** · September-30-13, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

RB336 & Bobl: We also rarely kill each other, outside of inner cities. Detroit in Canada would have just as many murders. Additionally, our murder also declines in cold weather, in sparsely populated areas, and where 2 parent families are intact. Are young men in Detroit dealing drugs and joining gangs out of frustration with not being Canadian?

Also, Bobl, what do you mean by "take care of their own?" Do you think there isn't a plethora of [[very expensive) social welfare programs here?

There are plenty of major cities in Canada. I'd recon their population is more urban than ours, since their cities are often ringed by greenbelts [[prohibiting the development of utopias such as Macomb Township). Thus their cities aren't bled dry and are mostly livable.

Are you really serious about the "take care of their own" part? The Republicans will have shut the government down in a matter of hours in order to stop more people from getting health insurance. Oh yeah, and what does a government shutdown mean to people like me, in the military? Delayed paychecks. Where are your magnetic ribbons now, America?

My father always said that you get what you pay for. We're not willing to pay to take care of our population, in large part, and we're reaping what we've sown in places like Detroit.

**KJ5** · September-30-13, 07:20 AM

If Windsor was part of the US there would no doubt be puddles of pee everywhere. Right, DaveWindsor?? In all seriousness, add my voice to the chorus of things would be better for us if Detroit was part of Canada.

**DetroitPlanner** · September-30-13, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by poobert

There are plenty of major cities in Canada. I'd recon their population is more urban than ours, since their cities are often ringed by greenbelts [[prohibiting the development of utopias such as Macomb Township). Thus their cities aren't bled dry and are mostly livable.

Please name one example of this greenbelt in Canada. Now it is true they have a penchant for less single family homes, but that is not the same thing. I am willing to bet most of the towers are being driven by one of two factors: a) the desire to live close to work or transit, or b) wanting a great view.

What I have noticed is that when a city ends, it ends. This has more to do with law and where they allow the sewer and water pipes.

What is really needed is that we need to work more with our neighbors to ensure that none of us allow folks into North America that we don't want in. We also need to make it harder for those with criminal records that may be seen as questionable [[say drug trafficking) to get across.

*Added after lunch. During lunch I researched the Ontario Greenbelt and was surpr9ised to see that it has one. One of the issues I saw in the maps was that it was either on land that would never be developed anyway [[Niagra Escarpment and lowest extensions of the Canadian Shield). And that there was still a lot of room st sprawl before it starts. I also see that Wendall Cox is against it. That make me for it.

**nain rouge** · September-30-13, 01:21 PM

OK, sure, we could go the other way and ask: what if Detroit was part of Canada? Either way, you'd see economic benefits by reducing arbitrary barriers to commerce. It might hurt the businesses in Canada that attempt to exploit differences in the exchange rates, but overall, I think you'd see massive improvements.

In Sault Ste. Marie's case, for example, you once had one large city spanning both sides of the St. Mary River. Now, there are two separate Sault Ste. Maries divided by an international border. How can that be a good thing economically for either city?

Originally Posted by Hermod

St Paul and Minneapolis are on opposite sides of a river and didn't become one city. While Manhattan and Brooklyn combined, the cities on the New Jersey shore didn't become part of New York.

True, but I'd say that the communities along the New Jersey shore benefited immensely by being in the same country as New York City. It probably also forced New York City to adopt more competitive economic policies to compete with the urban cities of New Jersey, which would've been less economically threatening if located in another country.

**Gistok** · September-30-13, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

Are you really serious about the "take care of their own" part? The Republicans will have shut the government down in a matter of hours in order to stop more people from getting health insurance. Oh yeah, and what does a government shutdown mean to people like me, in the military? Delayed paychecks. Where are your magnetic ribbons now, America?

Not sure how you could have missed it, since every news article on the planet mentions that air traffic control, social security checks, military pay and VA hospitals will all be unaffected by a shutdown....

**jt1** · September-30-13, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Not sure how you could have missed it, since every news article on the planet mentions that air traffic control, social security checks, military pay and VA hospitals will all be unaffected by a shutdown....

And WIC payments will be stopped. Those pesky poors kids don't deserve food and all.

Queue up all the bs stories about the WIC mothers driving Cadillacs and eating steak all day.

**iheartthed** · September-30-13, 06:03 PM

I don't think it'd make much of a difference for Detroit.

That is, unless Ontario was also a state in the union... meaning instead of making Windsor part of Michigan, we made Ontario part of the U.S. In that case, urban sprawl and depopulation wouldn't just be a Detroit issue, but something that affected the state coffers more directly too.

**poobert** · September-30-13, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Not sure how you could have missed it, since every news article on the planet mentions that air traffic control, social security checks, military pay and VA hospitals will all be unaffected by a shutdown....

That's a recent development.

**hortonz** · October-02-13, 01:53 PM

Why on earth would Detroit want to be saddled with a city that leads or is near the top of the list of Canadian cities in unemployment, cancer, heart disease and respiratory problems. And don't forget the city's crumbling roads and highways or the lack of an economic base unless you count the casino and Chrysler's minivan plant.

**Newdetroit** · October-02-13, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by hortonz

Why on earth would Detroit want to be saddled with a city that leads or is near the top of the list of Canadian cities in unemployment, cancer, heart disease and respiratory problems. And don't forget the city's crumbling roads and highways or the lack of an economic base unless you count the casino and Chrysler's minivan plant.

I think you might be referring to Detroit. Oh, I forgot Detroit is so much better...

**softailrider** · October-02-13, 06:50 PM

I spend a lot of time with Canadians from all different regions during the Winters in FL. I can state with certainty they most of them don't want any part of us - basically they think we're savages or close.

**canuck** · October-02-13, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I spend a lot of time with Canadians from all different regions during the Winters in FL. I can state with certainty they most of them don't want any part of us - basically they think we're savages or close.

But they dont mind rubbing shoulders with you in january?

**softailrider** · October-02-13, 08:02 PM

^^^^ I sense a lot of resentment some of it is under the surface, some isn't, not just my opinion either.

**stinkytofu** · October-02-13, 08:17 PM

Maybe we'd actually see that giant gondola over the river?

**Danny** · October-02-13, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by poobert

There are plenty of major cities in Canada. I'd recon their population is more urban than ours, since their cities are often ringed by greenbelts [[prohibiting the development of utopias such as Macomb Township). Thus their cities aren't bled dry and are mostly livable.

Are you really serious about the "take care of their own" part? The Republicans will have shut the government down in a matter of hours in order to stop more people from getting health insurance. Oh yeah, and what does a government shutdown mean to people like me, in the military? Delayed paychecks. Where are your magnetic ribbons now, America?

My father always said that you get what you pay for. We're not willing to pay to take care of our population, in large part, and we're reaping what we've sown in places like Detroit.

If you have watch the ABC miniseries 'AMERIKA' The Soviets [[who turned United States into a western bloc prison camp) explained that the reason your country failed because your government spends too much money into a point that nobody gets paid. They rely on corporations to do their battles in return for tax breaks.

Windsor being part of the U.S. would have to do [[ theoretically) the same issues with Detroit. They have more low-income black folks turn some neighborhoods into instant ghettos. Middle class black folks will be living way out. Fewer white folks would already move on. Just like the urban problems between Philadelphia, PA. and Camden, NJ. Windsor belongs Canada the some as Toledo belongs to Ohio. That city is enjoy its crime free communities, a well developed downtown and its combined suburbs. Their government is super liberal on socialist morals. They will never let conservatives have dominion over parliament in Ottawa. They have free health care and socialized medicine and will never have Quebec become a free independent nation. Let Windsor stay with Canada they're doing fine.

**Danny** · October-02-13, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

And WIC payments will be stopped. Those pesky poors kids don't deserve food and all.

Queue up all the bs stories about the WIC mothers driving Cadillacs and eating steak all day.

That's a misnomer! and NON-SEQUITUR! not all WIC customers drive fancy cars and steak and cake all day. The Republicans just don't their spend their greedy green paper on the poor.

**Lily** · October-02-13, 10:35 PM

Hard to keep their stories straight, a few days ago air traffic control and Homeland Security wasnt going to be effected. Today I heard slow downs in airports because of furloughed air traffic controllers and that 2/3 of folks in security positions were also furloughed.

to say i am disgusted with both sides is a gross understatement.

**Hermod** · October-03-13, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lily

Hard to keep their stories straight, a few days ago air traffic control and Homeland Security wasnt going to be effected. Today I heard slow downs in airports because of furloughed air traffic controllers and that 2/3 of folks in security positions were also furloughed.

to say i am disgusted with both sides is a gross understatement.

How disgusted were you with the government shutdown during the Gerald Ford administration, the five shutdowns during the Carter administration, the eight under Reagan, and the one under the elder Bush. All of these shutdowns were engineered by a Democratic congress [[including shutting down the government while one of their own, Carter, was in the White House).

**nain rouge** · October-03-13, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by hortonz

Why on earth would Detroit want to be saddled with a city that leads or is near the top of the list of Canadian cities in unemployment, cancer, heart disease and respiratory problems. And don't forget the city's crumbling roads and highways or the lack of an economic base unless you count the casino and Chrysler's minivan plant.

Sounds like most of Metro Detroit! If you get away from all the US vs. Canada bickering, I think both parties would see benefit, but we're way to shortsighted to get past the arbitrary lines.