If you were 22-26 yo, would you move to Detroit RIGHT NOW? Why?

[48009]

I guess, if you call a stagnant economy with stagnant population growth [[falling from a top 5 metro to now a top 20 metro) "done well."

The city has been a dump for several decades. The burbs were prosperous or "top 5" not even 10 years ago; so yea, the burbs did just fine without Detroit proper.

[sumas]

Charming comment Runnerxt, personally I adore New York and Chicago. Each has its own tempo, vibrancy and also problems. I am just city at heart. My husband has a sister with an extensive hunting compound up north. I go, I admire, but am generally bored to death. They love their life and I love mine. To each their own.

[sumas]

Perhaps people should start posting vignettes as to progress in the city. I'll post one, the James and Grace Lee Boggs International Center for Social Justice. Amazing, Grace is 97 now and still actively writing and was the keynote speaker at the UAW Women's day events where several hundred attended.

CapCorp, an affiliate youth volunteer org. associated with the Caputians, closely affiliated with the Boggs Center, are rehabbing a donated building to serve as a community facility, living quarters for themselves and 3 rental units. Many of this group are from other countries, they chose Detroit to do service.

[michimoby]

I'm visiting my girlfriend who lives in Chicago. I'm from Detroit.

48009 posts don't make much sense to me. There really isn't much here in Chicago and it certainly lacks the excitment and uniqueness of Detroit. Yes Chicago has a nice area of two blocks deep only from the lake for about 1/2 a mile along the Northside but aside from that it is Detroit just without Detroit's vibrancy and Chicago is way more depressing. It looks good in pictures but you have to spend a lot of time looking for that right good angle to show it off.

Downtown Chicago shopping is nothing more than a watered down Somerset shopping mall and is a lot lot more unsafe. Dining in downtown Chicago, sure if you like chains which you can find the same thing in Warren.

That nice stretch along the lakefront is tiny and like I said two blocks deep and about half a mile long. It's chain central and full of chain type people. Nothing unique especially compared to vibrant Midtown, Corktown and on.


Chicago sells itself because it is America's third largest city but once people arrive here from usually rural America, the wannabe city people, they quickly realize that Detroit is a more affordable and serious option especially if they are 'creative'

i laughed. Did your girlfriend read this over before you posted it?

[sumas]

God Lord, why would his girlfriend be offended? Did you ever read "Division Street" by Studs Terkell. Things haven't changed much there for 40 yrs either.

Please remember I like much of what Chicago has to offer.

Our son lived there for about two years, swore he would never return. It palled, he has been back in Detroit for 6 yrs now and seems busy and happy with many activities outside of his work. His work is of a "creative" nature.

[313WX]

The city has been a dump for several decades. The burbs were prosperous or "top 5" not even 10 years ago; so yea, the burbs did just fine without Detroit proper.

"Hey, we may not be doing all that great, as we haven't grown a lick since the 1970s and our college-educated children continue to run away from here at a record pace to regions with functioning/vibrant urban cores and mass transit is a foreign concept to us, but sprawl has still done us good in SE Michigan as at least we're better off than hellhole Detoilet!!! They should sell it off to Canada or nuke it, but be sure to keep the Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, Slows BBQ, the Casinos, the DMC, the DIA, and the DWSD. After all, those things belong to everyone in Michigan, not just those lazy, incompetent, corrupt, entitled ""Detroiters", regardless of whatever any silly licensing agreements or Titles say! Move them to the suburbs!!!"

[michimoby]

God Lord, why would his girlfriend be offended? Did you ever read "Division Street" by Studs Terkell. Things haven't changed much there for 40 yrs either.

Please remember I like much of what Chicago has to offer.

Our son lived there for about two years, swore he would never return. It palled, he has been back in Detroit for 6 yrs now and seems busy and happy with many activities outside of his work. His work is of a "creative" nature.

I don't know if she'd be offended as much as stunned about how ill-informed her significant other was about Chicago.

And I didn't read that book, but I have lived in Chicago, hence me finding humor in the poster's statement. Personally, I liked Detroit more than Chicago, and Brooklyn immensely more than Chicago.

[sumas]

313Wx, that's funny. Don't know how old you are but I remember when 313 was called the tuxedo exchange. You did miss some cultural assets such as WSU, the Historical institute, the Childrens's museum, Burton Library and just maybe dismantle Fort Wayne too. Boy I could write a list a mile long for things we don't "deserve". Oops forgot Belle Isle and all our riverfront parks.

Seems like a few on this thread enjoy beating a dead horse, which of course is cruel!

Problem is, we aren't dead, still life in the old girl.

[sumas]

I don't know if she'd be offended as much as stunned about how ill-informed her significant other was about Chicago.

And I didn't read that book, but I have lived in Chicago, hence me finding humor in the poster's statement. Personally, I liked Detroit more than Chicago, and Brooklyn immensely more than Chicago.

Actually I liked Brooklyn more than Manhattan. Had friends there and visited often. Full of life and diversity. Unique in it's complexion. Orthodox Jews on one side of the steet, emigrants on the other and zero interaction. It was fascinating. My friends lived in the poorest part of Brooklyn.

[Gistok]

313WX your sarcasm is not helping an already floundering thread....

[KOMPOST]

48009-
Your point of view on Detroit is valid. It is shared by many.
Moreover, a dissenting opinion is welcome here. It is a discussion forum afterall.
I think we even agree on your "pretend smoke & mirror "hip" neighborhoods like corktown and midtown" comment; nebulous as that is.
Why would a 22-26 year old move to Detroit?
I've never been one to "promote" moving to Detroit. I often wince at the latest slogan a firm was paid to come up with [["Detroit- Making It Better For You"). Furthermore, I've met news over the years of friends or family moving to the suburbs [[or beyond) with disappointment, yet complete understanding.
Detroit isn't for everyone is an understatement. And yet, I find myself saying it year in, year out. That would be my slogan if the powers that be paid me to come up with one.
So, your feelings on this fair city are common and understood.
Detroit isn't for everyone.

Your style of argument is another issue altogether. Your statements come off as extremely provincial and borderline hostile.
I question what you thought adding "literally the worst major city in the country" to the discussion would bring. Seems like a nonstarter for a conversation about whether or not a 22-26 year old would move here.
A brush up on subjective VS objective argument wouldn't hurt either.

Also, can we get some clarity here: are we talking any 22-26 year old human being? 22-26 mid-upper class, college student? "22-26 year old" is a very large section of humanity. Many of which I'll bet you would be shocked would love to come to Detroit.

The activities you claim 22-26 year olds are looking for [[make money, be around like-minded people, work, go to the bar, etc.) I think is true for many in that age group. Not all, though. Do you understand that? Not all.
Furthermore, I'd think you'd be [[pleasantly?) surprised to find pockets in the city where said lifestyle is a thriving reality. I'd even challenge you to venture out and see for yourself.
But, I won't.
Because I think your mind is made up about this city.

Plus, Detroit isn't for everyone.
Peace.

[TTime]

Have you ever been in one of your favorite old spots in the city having a beer or a coffee and you're just trying to relax and enjoy the moment and then some Johnny come lately plops down next to you with that stupid grin on their face and they start telling you how they are going to "save the city" and that "things are different this time" and "I really just want to be a part of something" and my all time favorite "it's coming back" and you simply want to puke on yourself but instead you quietly gather your things and look for someplace where you don't have to sit next to a delusional, self important asshole? Sloan put it best when they sang, "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."

[dtowncitylover]

Why is there a "need" to bring Detroit back? Serious question. The region has done well with prosperous suburbs in favor of a bustling city. Entirely plausible we can't have both.

Depending on your definition, it's been more or less gone for 20-50 years. The city is SO far gone, and has been gone for so long, even with BILLIONS in state and federal aid, that it's hard to argue the economic case in favor of further recovery efforts.

LOL That's cute. No, we have not been fine. We have been stagnant, economically and in population, since the 1970s. The 90s were maybe the best years, but has never as grand as the 1950s.

I would really love to see these BILLIONS in federal aid. Because, I'm pretty sure Michigan gives more to the federal government than it receives.

We live in the USA. The greatest country on earth and we have embarrassed ourselves by letting a city fall into disrepair and dysfunction. But what does the rest of the country, yourself too it seems, say back, "That's your problem, we shouldn't have to deal with it." That's nice, but just be forewarned it can easily happen to your cities as well.

[48009]

I question what you thought adding "literally the worst major city in the country" to the discussion would bring. Seems like a nonstarter for a conversation about whether or not a 22-26 year old would move here.

Ignoring the facts doesn't do the city any favors. The current Detroit facts: largest municipality to go bankrupt, most violent major city in US, wildly illiterate workforce, highest unemployment rate among 500k+ cities. These facts make it the worst, literally.

With that said, thanks for your fantastic comment. Sorry if I come off hostile. That is not my intent and I'll monitor my comments moving forward.

[Gistok]

Have you ever been in one of your favorite old spots in the city having a beer or a coffee and you're just trying to relax and enjoy the moment and then some Johnny come lately plops down next to you with that stupid grin on their face and they start telling you how they are going to "save the city" and that "things are different this time" and "I really just want to be a part of something" and my all time favorite "it's coming back" and you simply want to puke on yourself but instead you quietly gather your things and look for someplace where you don't have to sit next to a delusional, self important asshole? Sloan put it best when they sang, "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."

Have you ever been to a bar... having a drink to enjoy the fact that things are going better for you personally than they have in years, and even noticing that among all those that are struggling around you things are getting a little better... but then the bartender starts talking to you, and depresses the hell out of you with his negativity, and no matter how positively you reply he keeps trying to suck the positive energy out of you... and you wonder to yourself.... "why is this guy even here"??

[illwill]

In principle, 48009, I'm in alignment with your frustrations.

The concern I have is with the way you're conveying it. I quickly discovered, in a previous thread not many months back, that spending time criticizing Detroit and its pitfalls is not conducive for evoking change. I sense that your intent here is to instill a sense of reflection in Detroiters with the hope that, yes, the region will learn and grow from the successes of other cities.

But, there's a chasm there, and it has to do with the instilled self-defense present in anyone that makes the decision to live, work, and play in the region. Hell, even those that don't live locally, but are from Detroit, stand up for the city...more so that a lot of the Pittsburgh transplants, and they're borderline batshit.

For the time being, Detroit is content on finding its own routes for change -- now, that means it may come much more slowly and in an unorthodox way. Do I wish that it would come faster, with some genuine reflection on the successes of other cities? Sure. But you're dealing with the equivalent of an adult that was emotionally abused over the past four decades by big brothers in other cities, so the propensity to openly adopt suggestions from "outsiders" or those with global experience is not as high as a place like Chicago. It is what it is, and I frankly can't blame them.

-----

On a side note, to the poster suggesting that NYC and Chicago have no opportunity for revitalization -- complete horsepucky. I have dozens of examples why that's completely erroneous, and why I've found just as much opportunity for city improvement -- if not more -- in Brooklyn as I did in Detroit.

Michimoby,

You're absolutely correct and hit the nail on the head! I usually keep silent when I hear Detroit cheerleaders continually saying Detroit is a city for people to make their mark because it's so underdeveloped. As if all areas of Chicago and Brooklyn are already built-up to capacity and can no longer be enhanced. That's so laughable and the biggest misnomer I've ever heard. The fact is parts of Brooklyn & Chicago's West & South sides are much like Detroit. That's why many of these college grads are drawn to these other cities because they have the best of both worlds. The excitement of living in neighborhoods where they can witness constant change and also have some of the other amenities such as mass transit, shopping options, multiple connecting neighborhoods etc. Despite what the media reports, parts of Brooklyn, Bronx, New Jersey and Chicago are just as affordable as Detroit. There's a ton of opportunity in NYC. If there weren't, why do so many people STILL move there without a job or an apartment lined up? So the argument that Detroit has an advantage over other cities because you can be a part of the rebuilding process is true, but it is also the case with other cities that happen to be thriving at the same time.

Unfortunately, the Governor Snyder argument doesn't fly and the proof is in the pudding. Fifty-six percent of new Cook County residents are from Michigan. That's sad!

[Hermod]

I would really love to see these BILLIONS in federal aid. Because, I'm pretty sure Michigan gives more to the federal government than it receives.

You get this same biased argument every time this comes up. It is alwayt gross federal taxes paid versus gross federal outlays.


DUHHHH, the portion of taxes paid by the entire US which goes to support the Navy is largely spent in about half-a-dozen places. How are we going to allot the money paid to aircraft carrier crews evenly to all the states? We can't because the carriers are all located in Norfolk and San Diego. Should we base a carrier at Belle Isle to "even things out" for Michigan?

The same goes for Army money which goes to southern states because most of the military bases are there [[the weather is more conducive for outdoor training).

By the same token, a worker at an auto plant pays into social security all his working life. That money is "Michigan outgo to the feds" by your accounting. Said worker then retires and moves to Florida and draws social security which you count as "Florida income from the feds".

You have to look at the pot of money which goes out for locally targeted federal aid and see how that is distributed and whether or not the distribution is fair.

[Honky Tonk]

Have you ever been in one of your favorite old spots in the city having a beer or a coffee and you're just trying to relax and enjoy the moment and then some Johnny come lately plops down next to you with that stupid grin on their face and they start telling you how they are going to "save the city" and that "things are different this time" and "I really just want to be a part of something" and my all time favorite "it's coming back" and you simply want to puke on yourself but instead you quietly gather your things and look for someplace where you don't have to sit next to a delusional, self important asshole? Sloan put it best when they sang, "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."

We must go to the same bars.......

"Say Nice Things About Detroit"
Emilly Gail

"I'm A Believer..."
Dave Bing

"Your Future, Here, Now"
K. Kilpatrick

[48009]

The fact is parts of Brooklyn & Chicago's West & South sides are much like Detroit. That's why many of these college grads are drawn to these other cities because they have the best of both worlds.

Bingo. To be clear, the overwhelming majority of 20-something college grads don't give a damn about developing anything, they're flooding into major cities that are ready. Detroit is so far from what these others offer in that regard, I don't see how it can ever catch up and compete city vs city. Detroit may get a trickle of kids who want to "make a difference," while the rest of the major cities continue to get hundreds of thousands of college-educated new blood every summer. That is a major issue for Detroit.

[bailey]

Bingo. To be clear, the overwhelming majority of 20-something college grads don't give a damn about developing anything, they're flooding into major cities that are ready. Detroit is so far from what these others offer in that regard, I don't see how it can ever compete. Good luck with a trickle of kids who want to "make a difference," while the rest of the major cities continue to get hundreds of thousands of college-educated new blood every summer.

Ok. got it. however, all those cities were shitholes not that long ago. Chicago or NYC in the 80s? C'mon...peak hell hole.

So, question is, what can be done here to turn it around. Do we need to airlift the gheys here to do here what they in so many other big cities? I mean who else can take abattriors and turn them into Apple stores?

[Spartan]

Bingo. To be clear, the overwhelming majority of 20-something college grads don't give a damn about developing anything, they're flooding into major cities that are ready. Detroit is so far from what these others offer in that regard, I don't see how it can ever catch up and compete city vs city. Detroit may get a trickle of kids who want to "make a difference," while the rest of the major cities continue to get hundreds of thousands of college-educated new blood every summer. That is a major issue for Detroit.

Then why is Detroit's young professional population growing significantly faster than the average large city?

[bailey]

Then why is Detroit's young professional population growing significantly faster than the average large city?

because it's not a "mature" population.

If the D has 1000 [[totally made up number) yps move in and that is a say a 70% increase that is a little different that pointing to a 2-3% or even negative year over year growth for some other place when that place has 10,000+ yps moving there every year.

[[none of that is to say it's not a positive indicator...just saying not quite apples to apples)

[Eber Brock Ward]

The fact is parts of Brooklyn & Chicago's West & South sides are much like Detroit. That's why many of these college grads are drawn to these other cities because they have the best of both worlds.

They're also in the middle of nowhere.

You can [[or could, at least) buy a nice place here for under $100k in Corktown or Midtown and have all that you want/need.

Most of these YPs aren't moving to even nice neighborhoods like University District or Sherwood Forest because they're so far away from all the action. Same thing with moving to far-flung neighborhoods in Chciago/NY.

[48009]

Ok. got it. however, all those cities were shitholes not that long ago. Chicago or NYC in the 80s? C'mon...peak hell hole.

So, question is, what can be done here to turn it around. Do we need to airlift the gheys here to do here what they in so many other big cities? I mean who else can take abattriors and turn them into Apple stores?

No city has ever been as bad as current Detroit, but I understand your point. The 80s was 3 decades ago and those are two 1st tier cities that have seen incredible improvements. Even if Detroit could follow templates other cities followed, you're looking at several decades of improvements, and since Detroit is a 3rd or 4th tier major city, the process of improvement is likely slower and/or maybe not even possible. A 23 yo could move to Detroit after college and see very little improvement over the next 10 years, while also coping with limited employment opps and all of the other various shortcomings of Detroit.

Gays would rather continue developing Brooklyn and then move onto Queens, NY. So maybe ask them in 30 years if they're avail to save Detroit.

[canuck]

Ok. got it. however, all those cities were shitholes not that long ago. Chicago or NYC in the 80s? C'mon...peak hell hole.

So, question is, what can be done here to turn it around. Do we need to airlift the gheys here to do here what they in so many other big cities? I mean who else can take abattriors and turn them into Apple stores?

Recipe for success in restoring duh D to its former glor-ee.


Airlifting Gheys into duh D.

Carpetbombing ghee [[clarified indian butter) on duh D.

Shooting some episodes of "Glee" in duh D.

Dropping the "R" in Greektown Casino to give a new spin on the place thereby attracting "Geeks" of all persuasions into downtown.