If you were 22-26 yo, would you move to Detroit RIGHT NOW? Why?

48009 · September-09-13, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Are you talking quality of life, or a high tech job brochure?

Ummm and just what does a hyper-competitive job market get you in quality of life? 80 hour work weeks?

What does a highly educated workforce do in their spare time... leave each other spellbound in "app algorithms"?

Really what you describes sounds so shallow and pretentious... just how many nights does one in Silicon Valley eat out anyway? And what if you don't like Sushi or Napa or Somona Valley wines?

And as for affluent surroundings... I guess living among million dollar housing just isn't what it used to be....
http://valleywag.gawker.com/silicon-...-cos-513817096

If that's the way you want to live in a high tech high tension world... go for it... but not everyone views that as living... life is too short...

Real estate is expensive when a lot of high earners want to live there. When nobody wants to live somewhere, you get Detroit prices. I didn't know this was a foreign concept.

**iheartthed** · September-09-13, 09:53 AM

If I didn't have ties to the Detroit area I don't see why I would just pack up and move there. The only reason I would go is if I already had a great job offered in advance... But I would argue that great cities aren't places where people only go when they have already been offered a job. Great cities are places where people go with the premise of "if you work hard you can make it here." That's why people pick up and move to places like New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, etc. without their well paying job already extended to them. It used to be why people went to Detroit.

48009 · September-09-13, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by noise

Speak for yourself. Many others CAN, and for less money.

You're being ridiculous. Nobody in the world thinks current Detroit can compare to Chicago. Suspend your bias and we can try to have a constructive conversation.

**Eber Brock Ward** · September-09-13, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by 48009

You're being ridiculous. Nobody in the world thinks current Detroit can compare to Chicago. Suspend your bias and we can try to have a constructive conversation.

I stand by my question. After having lived in Chicago and NY and now moving here, what am I missing besides transit?

[[I will admit that I'm not a shopper/fashionista type, so I may be missing out on tons of shopping stuff)

**noise** · September-09-13, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by 48009

You're being ridiculous. Nobody in the world thinks current Detroit can compare to Chicago. Suspend your bias and we can try to have a constructive conversation.

As usual, you can't seem to make a clear argument. Certainly you can compare both cities, as people have done since they were both established. Is there a certain area you're wanting to compare?

The idea that people can't be happier in Detroit than Chicago is absolutely ridiculous.

My bias would take me to Chicago over Detroit, for what it's worth. Nice try, though.

And this is all outside of the fact that this age group is, indeed, moving to Detroit in larger than usual numbers. This is just statistical fact, whether or not you at trying to deny it.

**DJ Tom T** · September-09-13, 10:04 AM

The one factor where Detroit competes in this area is overwhelmingly Cost Of Living. It is extremely cheap to live here. Rents in major cities are so high you have 3-4 people sharing 2 bedroom places. Here, you can get 3000 sq feet for less than what those folks are paying. Eating/boozing is cheaper here as well if that's an important consideration.

Combine that with Detroit's current "cool factor" which only New York & maybe San Fran can match [[sorry - Chicago doesn't cut it when it comes to "cool") and you have a place where a young person with an entry level job can enjoy a much higher standard of living over the same entry level job in another city.

**jaytheory** · September-09-13, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by 48009

In my other thread, a user posted:

The user is correct, college grads are moving to cities at a high clip. The problem for Detroit is that young people are moving to cities where hundreds of thousands of young college educated people like them already live, with countless bars and restaurants, safe nightlife, elite & competitive workforces, low unemployment rates. Detroit is more or less the complete opposite of all of those attributes. Remove your regional bias and ask yourself this question: why would someone 22-26 yo invest the prime of their life into a city that still requires so much work, when there are major cities just a few hours away that are already turn-key? Unless you don't have the option of working in Chicago, Indianapolis, San Francisco, DC, et al. I'm not sure why you'd sacrifice your prime to live in current Detroit. The perception Detroit is battling: Why would I be some billionaire investors' guinea pig in Detroit? They get rich, while I get to watch my friends on Facebook living it up in established hotspots?

because beyond Dan gilbert there is opportunity here. I moved from the hottest spot in America to live in Detroit and wouldnt change it for the world.

Personally living somewhere I can see change before my eyes and isnt already laid out for me is interesting and enticing.

**southen** · September-09-13, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by 48009

So you've never lived anywhere outside of Michigan and feel you can speak on other cities and the opportunities they provide? O.K.

im sorry, do i live in some sort of vacuum where i havent been able to travel the world and dont know anyone who has lived in other places?

what you described in your first asinine post was what i came from in royal oak. nightlife, bars, safety, all of that. i still chose detroit and im thrilled to be here.

if you dont like people disagreeing with you or explaining why they like the city that doesnt jive with your "sacrificing your prime" stance on the city go someplace else. birminghamyes?

**bailey** · September-09-13, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by southen

im sorry, do i live in some sort of vacuum where i havent been able to travel the world and dont know anyone who has lived in other places?

what you described in your first asinine post was what i came from in royal oak. nightlife, bars, safety, all of that. i still chose detroit and im thrilled to be here.

if you dont like people disagreeing with you or explaining why they like the city that doesnt jive with your "sacrificing your prime" stance on the city go someplace else. birminghamyes?

I think the point.. perhaps lost in the snark.... was that you were choosing between RO and Detroit. I don't think that was the question being asked. Going on vacation or study abroad is a little different than living and working somewhere for a while. If I were in my 20s AND living here, yes, I'd want to be in Detroit over...Troy or RO [[assuming I had a job in the D and not at maple and telegraph or something) . But Detroit vs. established functioning city? that is an entirely different question.

No way would I stay here in my 20s...but that is me. I GTFO and spent my 20s [[and a 30 or two) living in major cities both here and outside the US. I would not trade that for all the craft cocktails at Sugarhouse. I'm sorry. To steal and paraphrase something ProfScott said on the M1 thread... Detroit is what it is, let's not pretend it is what it isn't.

That doesn't mean people who choose Detroit can't live rich full lives... just means there is a bit of perspective missing from the picture.

Have things improved? of course. The questions are; how much more is going to happen? And how many years of your youth are you going to spend waiting?

48009 · September-09-13, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Have things improved? Of course. The questions are; how much more is going to happen? And how many years of your youth are you going to spend waiting?

Detroit is what it is, let's not pretend it is what it isn't.

Bingo.

Some here are too easily offended and try to overcompensate and exaggerate how inviting Detroit is, instead of addressing the very real perceptions and raw issues facing the region.

48009 · September-09-13, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by DJ Tom T

The one factor where Detroit competes in this area is overwhelmingly Cost Of Living. It is extremely cheap to live here. Rents in major cities are so high you have 3-4 people sharing 2 bedroom places. Here, you can get 3000 sq feet for less than what those folks are paying. Eating/boozing is cheaper here as well if that's an important consideration.

Combine that with Detroit's current "cool factor" which only New York & maybe San Fran can match [[sorry - Chicago doesn't cut it when it comes to "cool") and you have a place where a young person with an entry level job can enjoy a much higher standard of living over the same entry level job in another city.

It's cheap for a reason. The Delta hub at DTW is great, but when you spend all of the money saved on flying to NYC, DC, Atlanta, et al. to see your friends and have a good time your savings are nil.

**noise** · September-09-13, 11:58 AM

So what do perceptions and raw issues have to do with the 22-26 year olds who ARE moving to Detroit and are happy with their decisions?

I don't see anyone getting offended here. I see a lot of people poking holes in your poorly articulated comments.

48009 · September-09-13, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

I think the point.. perhaps lost in the snark.... was that you were choosing between RO and Detroit. I don't think that was the question being asked. Going on vacation or study abroad is a little different than living and working somewhere for a while. If I were in my 20s AND living here, yes, I'd want to be in Detroit over...Troy or RO [[assuming I had a job in the D and not at maple and telegraph or something) . But Detroit vs. established functioning city? that is an entirely different question.

No way would I stay here in my 20s...but that is me. I GTFO and spent my 20s [[and a 30 or two) living in major cities both here and outside the US. I would not trade that for all the craft cocktails at Sugarhouse. I'm sorry.

This is why I feel like it's a con job by the leaders and investors. Why is it 20-somethings job to help bring back Detroit? We didn't ruin it. Why should we squander our life here when it's more or less in complete turmoil and all of our friends are getting jobs in cool cities like Chicago, NYC, SF, et al.? WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME is my question. As far as I can tell, nothing. The only people winning, if they lure enough of the 20-something crowd into Detroit, are rich guys who bought Detroit cheap.

48009 · September-09-13, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by noise

So what do perceptions and raw issues have to do with the 22-26 year olds who ARE moving to Detroit and are happy with their decisions?

I don't see anyone getting offended here. I see a lot of people poking holes in your poorly articulated comments.

To be honest, most [[no, not all) of the grads I know staying put are too scared of moving away from the safety of Michigan's slow pace or don't have the career prospects or funds to live in a more expensive, more competitive city. What's left? People that grew up here, stuck here, or people from say Mid Michigan who don't know any better, maybe they're terrified of moving to unfamiliar major cities. As easy as I think transition to Chicago is for the avg college grad here, Detroit is absolutely a more painless and cheaper move.

**noise** · September-09-13, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by 48009

To be honest, most [[no, not all) of the grads I know staying put are too scared of moving away from the safety of Michigan's slow pace or don't have the career prospects or funds to live in a more expensive, more competitive city. What's left? People that grew up here, stuck here, or people from say Mid Michigan who don't know any better, maybe they're terrified of moving to unfamiliar major cities. As easy as I think transition to Chicago is for the avg college grad here, Detroit is absolutely a more painless and cheaper move.

There are people in this very thread who don't fit in those categories!

Furthermore, as the census indicates, this age group is GROWING in Detroit.

While it certainly wouldn't be my choice, and I moved to California when I was in this demographic, there are definitely people who are moving to Detroit and enjoying it.

**gazhekwe** · September-09-13, 12:11 PM

Just thinking back to when I was 22-26 years old in Detroit, under my same circumstances, age, familial status, opportunities, I would have to say, No, I would not. At that time, I had a pre-schooler from infancy to just before kindergarten, and my choices were made based on opportunities for females and small children. Looking over all things as they grow and change, I feel that particular audience is still just about as limited now as it was then.

**motz** · September-09-13, 01:21 PM

I did it, even though I am slightly out of that age range. Don't regret it at all, love where I live, love the price, etc. Best descision I've made, since it definitely beats the "The only thing to do is go to the bar" feeling of Ferndale or the "YO WHERES YOUR ED HARDY AT" feel of Royal Oak, or the "We used to be a cool city, but aren't anymore so we just act pretentious and hope no one notices" attitude of Birmingham.

**gnome** · September-09-13, 01:31 PM

Hmm, at the time I was out of the country pretending to be a tourist, but I did return every so often and alternated my living arrangements between Lansing and Detroit.

So, as a male, without dependents and an overly generous sense of being bullet-proof, I would say, yes.

The issue of Detroit's long-term stability is found in young families. More families buy houses than single folks. That doesn't mean that single folks never buy homes, it means that "generally" moms and dads like to nest with their broods in safety and security.

**gvidas** · September-09-13, 03:40 PM

I'm 26. I moved here [[downtown, cass corridor, 4th street, now north corktown) when I was 23, from out of state.

I moved here to learn: about Detroit, and America, and the horrors and hidden opportunities of our late-capitalist wonderland; but also [[mostly) about myself, and about self-employment and self-motivation and self-determination, and other self-centered things.

I think it was a good choice.

The alternatives I had then [[immediately post-college, mid-recession) were pretty much "move home" or "move to a city, get an internship and/or shitty job."

Which isn't to say that living here hasn't involved shitty job[[s). But, I think Detroit is a great place to be if you want to learn by doing, without the "structure" provided by being a cog in someone else's dream. Although, there's plenty of people offering that here, too. There are lots of different ways to live; Detroit offers one that, for now, works for me.

**sumas** · September-09-13, 05:15 PM

Always laugh, wrote a long post that timed out. Frankly, 48009, you interest me not at all. Race baiting is pretty disgusting. Keep your opinions in your burb.

I am sad to think I lost my long thoughtful post but then honestly, it would have been wasted. I have no intention to respond to this troll again.

**finster** · September-09-13, 09:09 PM

48009, you have to realize that not everything has to be seen in either a 100% white or 100% black scenario. Why is it so hard to believe that there might be at least one person out there on planet Earth that may disagree with you on something on at least one issue.

Detroit certainly has an image problem right now but if there's one thing in life that I've learned is that no place, person, idea etc. is ever nearly as great as it's made out to be or as bad as it's made out to be.

For your hypothetical young person there are still more bars, concerts, parks, sporting events, etc. to in the Detroit metro than one person could even remotely partake of. If you don't believe me read the local events info in the Freep for example and you will see hundreds of things going on each and every week around here. And if you have 200 options for a Saturday night or 2000 that's still a lot of variety!

Trust me, if you read the local boards for any large metropolitan area in the United States there are still plenty of people claiming it's the worst place to be in the World, bar none!

It all comes down to is your glass have full or half empty? That is where I believe it all starts out.

**michimoby** · September-09-13, 09:17 PM

We may be asking the wrong question here.

It's not as much a barrier to entry to move to Detroit at 22-26 as it is to stay past the honeymoon stage. And frankly, the grand experiment called Gilbertville hasn't fully run its course just yet to truly say whether or not it's effective.

I can count on both hands the number of friends in that age range that moved to Detroit 1-2 years ago and are now in the suburbs or NYC/Chicago/SF/etc. And just like any startup, launching is an infinitesimal part of the sustained success. Only time will tell.

**rex** · September-09-13, 09:53 PM

when i moved back to Detroit i was younger than 22. I left when I was 6, returned when I was 18 and remained till 26ish. As a young adult I stayed the far east side near Whittier and Harper mostly because it was cheap. Nice 3 bedroom house 300 a month no roommates. Would I do it over? No. Except for Nottingham every block between the freeway and Kelly along Whittier was occupied and kept. Over that time I had couple break-ins, a armed home invasion & mugged twice near home. Home invasion was the final straw. Scared the shit out of me, guys with guns convinced there was a bunch of $$$ in the house & all I had was rent. Failed experiment... And this is before the public service meltdown.
If i was a student at WSU or CCS and 22-26 I might consider living near campus or downtown. Thats about all

**aj3647** · September-09-13, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

Why would any 22-26 year old other than an overpaid techie want to move here to SF and pay an arm and a leg to live here? http://www.rentjungle.com/average-re...o-rent-trends/

US Census, Population Ages 20-24

Detroit 2000: 65,725
Detroit 2010: 54,067
Percent change: -17.7%

San Francisco 2000: 56,054
San Francisco 2010: 60,618
Percent change: +7.5%

**rex** · September-09-13, 10:18 PM

well thats just crazy. Ill pay my 3oo a month to live in Detroit again before I came out my pocket >3K a month to live in the mission in SF. How much is rent in the Civic Center area? 2300 or therabouts? Every time i've ever visited SF and not stayed with a friend I end up at the same hotel around 6th and market. Its actually pretty acceptable, clean, cheap, and a decent breakfast but that area shouldnt cost much to reside in. It kinda sucks.