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  1. #301

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    I would in a second unless I had children.

  2. #302

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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrytimes View Post
    I would in a second unless I had children.
    I am being honest, my husband, westside, me, eastside, we did private school stuff for a bit, did the burb thing for most of their school years. Actually on the advice of a black woman principle at Chrysler school in Lafayette Park. Go figure?

    My point is I couldn't wait to come home. I embrace my neighbors, my neighborhood. Can't imagine being anywhere else.

  3. #303

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    Why are we so worried about what the college grads are doing? These still make up a minority of 26-34 year olds. A great number of young people in our region can't even aspire to be YPs. We have to find a way to return to the manufacturing base and provide rational reasons for living in the city, close to work.

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony View Post
    We have to find a way to return to the manufacturing base and provide rational reasons for living in the city, close to work.
    Not possible. There will never be a significant increase in manufacturing jobs in the US. Manufacturing employment is declining worldwide--China's manufacturing employment peaked in 1996. There isn't going to be less automation, and people don't need more stuff. Nor is it likely that new manufacturing facilities are going to be centered in urban cores.

    People living in cities are going to need to find something else to do.

  5. #305

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwilbert View Post
    People living in cities are going to need to find something else to do.
    They've already found something else to do. They suck off the government's tits, and when that isn't enough, they turn to a life of crime.

    And before one goes into the cliche and circular discussion about STEM jobs, some jobs not having been created, etc. Keep in mind that Google, Facebook and Apple make up $1 Trillion Dollars of the world's economy, yet they only employ a combined total of. 130,000 employees, whereas Ford Motor Company employs almost twice as many people as that alone.

    In fact, just last week, 60 Minutes did a very nice story about the impacts of automation/robotics on our future employment prospects.

    http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.r...121&feed_id=32
    Last edited by 313WX; September-18-13 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #306

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    I'm just confused why we're worried about what Big 10 grads do post-college. Those aren't the people we should be catering to, it's the non-elites, middle class, blue-collar workers that make up the majority of the population.

    What about the thousands of adolescents coming through Detroit schools who will never get to go to MSU or U of M, what are we doing to make sure they stay in the city and are able to make a decent living?

  7. #307

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    "We used to make shit in this country, build shit. Now we just put our hands in the next guy's pocket." - Frank Sobotka

  8. #308

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    And let's not pretend it's just the lack of jobs that's the problem, moreso than the lack of access to said jobs. Detroit has a culture problem as well. Even despite the auto industry's decline, the region is still one of the wealthiest in the country, and most places just outside the city proper have relatively low unemployment. This region has been suffering from almost catastrophic wealth inequality over the last 30 years. I can guarantee you if that wealth had been invested into the city proper like it was in the 1950s, Detroit's unemployment problems wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are now.

  9. #309

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    To answer your initial question. There will always be groups of people that have vision. There will always be pioneers who are willing to put in the blood sweat and tears to make a city great again. They will always hear the jeers from the sidelines from people like you. People who always say how dare those 22-26 year old college graduates waste their time in a place like current Detroit. To them coming to current Detroit is a no brainer! My mom was raised in Chicago and I was born there. The gangs back then were crazy out of control. The murder rate was high and still is BTW. Chicago's illiteracy rate was high and still is! Chicago had people who believed in it enough to change it for the better (well at least parts of it lol!) If it wasn't for them you wouldn't even be mentioning Chicago. So many cities in the USA go through major changes of demographics, economics, migrations, crime etc. People like you come much later when everything is "cool" again. For someone like yourself No. Current Detroit is not for you. But for those college grads who are coming here in droves to make a difference current Detroit is perfect for THEM. I'm wondering why you even care so much. Why do you care what their reasons are? Is it because you really want to be here but you're frustrated that Detroit is not "fixed" yet?
    Last edited by getmoore; September-18-13 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #310

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    Getmoore, interesting screen name. As an old fart I've been around long enough to see demographics change. Old people then young families they move or age out, old people again then the adventuresome young.

    I adore seeing our group of CapCorp volunteers. They now occupy 3 homes in 4 blocks. Young and old we almost vie with other neighbors to take of our seniors. Miss Ethel, Miss Grace, Miss Maria are all in their 80's and 90's now. Even our young ones in the neighborhood know respect. By young I mean 3 to 18.

  11. #311

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    Quote Originally Posted by 48009 View Post
    I mean that is a pretty accurate statement. With that said, it's far from the only school in the state that's stealing $400 an hour from students who shouldn't be at a university. Just read any paper and see the RECORD enrollment at all of the universities right now. They all know the gravy train could end soon so the cash grab, i.e., anyone with a pulse can enroll, is out of control. No surprise that with record enrollment comes huge construction projects.

    As for what a Wayne undergrad degree is worth; well, tell me what companies recruit there? Of course there are exceptions, but we all know the truth.
    WSU is a research institution with an urban mission. They excel in research. That has more bearing on graduate students than undergrads. Of course, undergrads in a lot of fields seem to have a lot of success after graduating from WSU, in spite of the conflicting mission in a city with horrible K-12s.

    But then, you're talking about the value of an undergrad degree. It's 2013. That's long been the new high school degree. You also seem to have absolutely no idea of how Higher Ed works. Do they not explain that in your MFA program?

  12. #312

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    I think that Detroit's treasures are those that cant be duplicated either in the burbs or sometimes in other big cities. Eastern Market is a huge drawing card for those who want the city life and can access this great resource.

    You cant duplicate the DIA or the Opera and Orchestra. These are attractive to well educated young or older folk. There is still plenty of "stuff" to draw folks in but they need to be promoted alongside new developments in downtown. Neighborhoods like Corktown close to downtown will generate interest if downtown and midtown continue on a development course, provide employment opportunities and transit options. Detroit needs to be promoted as an experiment in urban renewal on different fronts to different audiences.

    Detroit may be more damaged than Chicago but it has the aura of motor and music chic that can help it sail along with other metropolises.

    I also predict sharp turns somewhere in the near future that will promote a coalition of forces in the metro.

    Nevermind the insistant naysayers. Keep the faith.

  13. #313

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    What are the major hurdles that disallow a large influx of young people into Detroit's center?

    1. Crime/safety
    2. k-12 education
    3. Public transport
    4. Jobs, access to said jobs
    5. Entertainment options
    6. Inadequate or non-existent housing stock
    7. Black people

    with many more...

    There's just not enough money or resources to go around to fix all these problems. And I fear we'll only be able to cure a few (or one) at a time. All while sacrificing the others. Not unless a great change comes with the American economy, one that provides employment and resources to the middle class, makes them able to afford a living wage. Until then, I feel the poor will be relegated to the city (in dwindling numbers) and the rich will blossom in exurbia. Until that income gap lessens, the ability for us to live in close proximity as an urban whole seems like a pipe dream.

  14. #314

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    Random kid graduates from Pershing in 2014. He's an average student, 2.5 GPA. Parents are divorced, the income coming into his household is 30,000. With college costs rising, it's really not an option unless he's willing risk major debt (against getting a job post-college and being able to pay that off). What can be done to make sure in the 5 years after graduating, he's able to procure a decent enough living to have a child? To rent his own place or buy his own house? To stay in Detroit and obtain a semi-prosperous, middle-class living?

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony View Post
    Random kid graduates from Pershing in 2014. He's an average student, 2.5 GPA. Parents are divorced, the income coming into his household is 30,000. With college costs rising, it's really not an option unless he's willing risk major debt (against getting a job post-college and being able to pay that off).
    This kid's problem isn't the cost of college; someone whose family income is only $30,000 will qualify for full or nearly full aid at a large number of schools. He can take out loans and go on an income-based repayment program, so his debt load wouldn't have to be an issue. His problem is that a 2.5 GPA from Pershing means he isn't qualified to go to college. He can't get admitted to the schools that would give him the best aid packages, and if he goes to a school he can get into, chances are he won't finish.


    What can be done to make sure in the 5 years after graduating, he's able to procure a decent enough living to have a child? To rent his own place or buy his own house? To stay in Detroit and obtain a semi-prosperous, middle-class living?
    First, why do we want him to stay in Detroit? Not that we have anything against him in particular, but we have lots of people like him. Possibly he would be better off if he went somewhere else with better job opportunities. But there are several things we could do make it possible for him to have the life you envision.

    One is to provide him with appropriate training. If he isn't ready for college, possibly he could become ready at a community college or other adult ed program. Or he could pursue some other non-college training, such as a trades apprenticeship or some kind of specific health-care training.

    Another is to improve the area's economy in general, and Detroit's in particular. That is where the drive to attract a more educated population comes in, because there is a huge multiplier effect as you get a virtuous circle between a more attractive workforce and more employers being attracted, and there are lots of less-skilled jobs generated in that process.

    Note that in the longer term neither of these will be able to overcome the erosion of the middle class that is being caused by automation. Only policies specifically directed at that problem will work.

  16. #316

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    We have a neighbor, 32, lost a job, when the company closed, he doesn't have a car. He used our office computer to seek work. Took a year and 1/2 for him to find a job that he could get to. (He still has to walk slightly over a mile to get to the bus to get himself to work) He is dependable and honest. He worked his job for two weeks and they realized a treasure. He is in training for a better job within the company (They are opening a second location) I am so pleased for him.

  17. #317

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwilbert View Post
    Not possible. There will never be a significant increase in manufacturing jobs in the US. Manufacturing employment is declining worldwide--China's manufacturing employment peaked in 1996. There isn't going to be less automation, and people don't need more stuff. Nor is it likely that new manufacturing facilities are going to be centered in urban cores.

    People living in cities are going to need to find something else to do.

    I dont know what the latest statistics are, but I remember reading that the U.S. has a slightly larger industrial sector than China's; percentage wise somewhere around 17% vs maybe 16% for China.

    There is still a massive industrial sector with of course high level automation but it remains an important source of employment. Then there are business people who find ways of continuing a long tradition of high end craft in sectors like the garment trade. People will pay for higher quality goods made by hand.


    http://www.ribkoff.com/index.php Montreal based fashion designer and manufacturer.

    http://www.josephabboud.com/#home Boston based fashion designer.

    http://www.fullumandholt.com/ Montreal manufacturer of leather accessories.

  18. #318

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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    I dont know what the latest statistics are, but I remember reading that the U.S. has a slightly larger industrial sector than China's; percentage wise somewhere around 17% vs maybe 16% for China.

    There is still a massive industrial sector with of course high level automation but it remains an important source of employment. Then there are business people who find ways of continuing a long tradition of high end craft in sectors like the garment trade. People will pay for higher quality goods made by hand.


    http://www.ribkoff.com/index.php Montreal based fashion designer and manufacturer.

    http://www.josephabboud.com/#home Boston based fashion designer.

    http://www.fullumandholt.com/ Montreal manufacturer of leather accessories.
    Sure, but you aren't going to see manufacturing employment overall increase. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kinds of artisan-based employment rise, but it isn't at all likely to offset the loss of mass-production industrial jobs.

    Also, that doesn't mean manufacturing output has to fall. As you point out, manufacturing in the US hasn't fallen nearly as much as manufacturing employment--it hadn't really fallen at all until the financial crisis, but manufacturing employment had already fallen a great deal.
    Last edited by mwilbert; September-19-13 at 12:05 PM.

  19. #319

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    I grew up in the 'burbs, wanted a house. At the time, the 80's, I couldn't afford one, so I moved to Texas where I could. Right now, given the same circumstances, I'd stay and buy a sub-priced house with the idea that it would increase in value and the city will come back. Of course, I was faster and fitter then, but I've been dang lucky at picking neighborhoods that increased in value after my purchase, so I'd rely on that.

  20. #320

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