Some repackaged variant of [[already struck down) stop and frisk coming to Detroit?

**brizee** · September-07-13, 08:47 AM

Nothing concrete. And it's a bit of jumping to conclusions.

But the jump isn't huge. At all.

PS. These same types of think tanks and policy makers are trying to stick their finger into Detroit's city charter.

This is like inviting rats and roaches and maggots to clean up all the filth in your house.

**mwilbert** · September-07-13, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by brizee

Nothing concrete. And it's a bit of jumping to conclusions.

But the jump isn't huge. At all.

PS. These same types of think tanks and policy makers are trying to stick their finger into Detroit's city charter.

This is like inviting rats and roaches and maggots to clean up all the filth in your house.

It is a bit of jumping to conclusions. I'm not a fan of the Manhattan Institute, but Bill Bratton knows a lot about running a police department. In any case, perhaps we could wait to criticize their recommendations until they make them. It isn't as if the DPD weren't already under Federal supervision for civil rights violations.

**firstandten** · September-07-13, 10:02 AM

Frankly I trust Chief Craig I think he will do the right thing. I agree about Bill Bratton being able to run a police department. He has to be considered as one of the best. I think that our chief will look at the DPD history, it's culture and the fact that it is already under Federal supervision and decide that Stop and Frisk is not a good idea for Detroit at this time.

48009 · September-07-13, 10:35 AM

I don't care how many this offends, harass the crap out of these criminals. Anything that leads to these parasites being scared of walking around with a gun, i.e., the ability to commit a violent crime at will, is fine by me.

**downtownguy** · September-07-13, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by 48009

I don't care how many this offends, harass the crap out of these criminals. Anything that leads to these parasites being scared of walking around with a gun, i.e., the ability to commit a violent crime at will, is fine by me.

Yeah! And while we're at it, let's throw away the Constitution!

**313WX** · September-07-13, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by downtownguy

Yeah! And while we're at it, let's throw away the Constitution!

Meh, we did that a long time ago.

**mwilbert** · September-08-13, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by 48009

I don't care how many this offends, harass the crap out of these criminals.

Of course a big problem with stop and frisk is that the police can't tell who the criminals are, so they "harass the crap" out of lots of other people too.

Ignoring the community relations, legal, and fairness issues involved, I suspect it would be more effective to use our inadequate police resources to deal with actual crimes and criminals than go looking for possible ones. I also strongly suspect there are lots of people walking around the city with default warrants on them who would be excellent targets for police attention.

The situation in NYC is completely different; they have many more police per crime, so they can better afford inefficient practices like stop and frisk.

**firstandten** · September-08-13, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Of course a big problem with stop and frisk is that the police can't tell who the criminals are, so they "harass the crap" out of lots of other people too.

Ignoring the community relations, legal, and fairness issues involved, I suspect it would be more effective to use our inadequate police resources to deal with actual crimes and criminals than go looking for possible ones. I also strongly suspect there are lots of people walking around the city with default warrants on them who would be excellent targets for police attention.

The situation in NYC is completely different; they have many more police per crime, so they can better afford inefficient practices like stop and frisk.

Studies have shown that profiling of this type is very inefficient. I bet if you did a cost-benefit analysis of this type of profiling the costs of doing it would greatly outweigh the benefits. Besides cops, just like people in general are frankly not very good at profiling for pretty obvious reasons. But Mr. Birmingham Mich. would have you believe police harassment is just a cost of living in the city and having the same skin color as many of the true criminals in the city. He wants you to understand police have a tough job, so you just need to suck it up, accept the harassment, knowing full well that the police are trying real hard to find the right bad guys.

**Meddle** · September-08-13, 01:39 PM

Dec. 15—The LAPD under former chief William Bratton mismanaged and mishandled millions of dollars of taxpayer money — violating city policies in buying supplies and hiring vendors, according to an internal department audit.

Covering the 2007-2008 fiscal year, the audit revealed serious bungling in the department’s purchasing process, which accounts for $60 million in spending annually, KNX News Radio reported Monday.

Although the audit was completed in late summer, as Bratton prepared to leave amid praise for reducing the city’s crime rate, it was not made public until this week, KNX reported.

While it wasn’t her audit, City Controller Wendy Greuel — whose office routinely audits city operations and departments — said its findings raised serious questions.

“The potential waste of taxpayer funds that this audit uncovered is incredibly serious, particularly with the city facing such a large budget deficit,” Greuel said in a statement.

http://ledgerlink.monster.com/news/a...naged-millions

There's plenty more out there, but I don't feel like digging it up right now. A lot of his ability to 'run a police department' appears to have been buried under an avalanche of accolades by the Koolaid drinkers.

**Drexciya68** · September-08-13, 03:18 PM

"An extreme case of what happens when a city ends stop and frisk is Detroit. Coleman Young, the city's first black mayor, did so immediately after winning the first of five elections in 1973.

In short order Detroit became America's murder capital. Its population fell from 1.5 million to 1 million between 1970 and 1990. Crime has abated somewhat since the Young years, but the city's population fell to 713,000 in 2010 -- just over half that when Young took office. "

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/stop-and-frisk-doesnt-target-minorities-it-protects-them

**mwilbert** · September-08-13, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Drexciya68

"An extreme case of what happens when a city ends stop and frisk is Detroit. Coleman Young, the city's first black mayor, did so immediately after winning the first of five elections in 1973.

In short order Detroit became America's murder capital. Its population fell from 1.5 million to 1 million between 1970 and 1990. Crime has abated somewhat since the Young years, but the city's population fell to 713,000 in 2010 -- just over half that when Young took office. "

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/stop-and-frisk-doesnt-target-minorities-it-protects-them

Of course, its population was already falling very nicely before that. There is no reason to take this kind of argument seriously.

**sumas** · September-08-13, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

Of course, its population was already falling very nicely before that. There is no reason to take this kind of argument seriously.

Agreed totally.

**firstandten** · September-08-13, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Drexciya68

"An extreme case of what happens when a city ends stop and frisk is Detroit. Coleman Young, the city's first black mayor, did so immediately after winning the first of five elections in 1973.

In short order Detroit became America's murder capital. Its population fell from 1.5 million to 1 million between 1970 and 1990. Crime has abated somewhat since the Young years, but the city's population fell to 713,000 in 2010 -- just over half that when Young took office. "

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/stop-and-frisk-doesnt-target-minorities-it-protects-them

I think in this case Michael Barone gets cause and effect all wrong. First of all CAY ended more than just S&F he ended STRESS. Also as the mwilbert stated the population was already declining when CAY took office. Finally the increase in crime was not because of the ending of S&F or STRESS, but of an influx of drugs in the community and the direct and ancillary crimes that the drug economy created. You would have needed a lot more than S&F in order to bring those numbers down.

**Wesley Mouch** · September-08-13, 06:27 PM

Its too bad that people associate S&F with profiling. Has nothing to do with it -- except by bad cops. And bad cops will find another way to profile -- so killing S&F to kill profiling won't work. S&F can be abused -- like all policing powers. Something is NYC is working to reduce crime. We'll see what happens to the crime rate with S&F hobbled by well-intentioned people who don't live in those neighborhoods that need it and appreciate it most.

**mwilbert** · September-08-13, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Something is NYC is working to reduce crime.

Whenever people mention this, I have to point out that crime has been falling dramatically everywhere in the US. If S&F has had any effect, it would be hard to tease out from the overall trend. Of course the NYPD brass likes to claim that it is because of their tactics, but that isn't well supported. I'm pretty convinced that the rise and fall of environmental lead is the main explanation.

**Meddle** · September-08-13, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Its too bad that people associate S&F with profiling. Has nothing to do with it --

Sorry, but there is NO valid reason why police should be able to grab anybody at random and feel them up.

**brizee** · October-10-13, 07:37 AM

This sure seems like some newspeak, smartest guy in the room, way of saying stop and frisk is getting ready to be deployed.

I really like the bringing up of recent violent attacks to get an emotional response to accept a tactic already struck down.

The new chief is looking as full of shit as everybody else in this state.