Syria

[JBMcB]

yes and no. I don't think Obama ever intended to go without congressional approval.

Based on what? He bombed the crap out of Libya without asking anyone.

If he doesn't get approval, and the US "loses prestige," well, that is on congress

Or, it could be argued, it's also on him, since he, and Hillary, shouldn't have made ultimatums that don't make any sense, and at the very least, didn't have clear political support for.

[Gistok]

Chris Matthews says that Democrats must support the war to "Save President's Hide".

"Democratic Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton said Tuesday that at the current time, the only reason she would vote in favor of an attack on Syria was out of loyalty to Barack Obama."

In 2008, Ron Paul was very unpopular within the Republican party for bucking Bush on the Iraq war. So this kind of partisanship crosses party lines. What a shame it is that people have to be killed because of party loyalties to their leaders. There is a reverse side to this though. Because of their opposition to Obama, some Republicans like McCain and Graham, who side with Obama, are becoming unpopular and former neocon flavored right wingers suddenly find themselves open to the non-interventionist peace message of Ron Paul when delivered by Rand Paul and especially Ted Cruz.

.... and now we know why presidents since Reagan have flagrantly bypassed the War Powers Act... because both sides of the aisle suddenly act so stupid when this type of scenario arises... [[flip-flopping)...

Now seeing how silly Congress acts, don't you feel a bit off-put by all the fuss you made over the Libya bombing??

[Gistok]

400 Children?
Does Kerry, McCain or Obama NOT understand how these people work in this part of the world? 400 children is NOTHING. Asaad will put 4,000 children in EACH of the potential cruise missile targets, and after our cruise missiles hit, they will photograph the kids and say we bombed schools, and
WE WILL LOOK LIKE THE BUTCHERS.

There is no way to win this by acting alone and going rogue.

WAIT FOR THE UN TO COMPLETE THEIR INVESTIGATION AND SHOW PROOF.

Maybe... just maybe... the Defense Department folks will look at the latest spy satellite imagery to see which sites NOT TO GO AFTER??

[oladub]

.... and now we know why presidents since Reagan have flagrantly bypassed the War Powers Act... because both sides of the aisle suddenly act so stupid when this type of scenario arises... [[flip-flopping)...

Now seeing how silly Congress acts, don't you feel a bit off-put by all the fuss you made over the Libya bombing??

No, I'm vindicated. The unanticipated side effects of the attack on Libya and the overthrow of Khaddafi included racist attacks on sub-Saharan African workers, the Islamic takeover of Northern Mali, Benghazi, and the turnover of 400 state of the art surface to air missiles to Al-Queda. Just this week, in an update, we found out that Libya's economy and crime rates have deteriorated. Libya is now only producing a fraction of the oil it had under Khaddafi. The standard of living of the average Libyan has deteriorated. Obama should have been impeached for his arrogant war on Libya as Kucinich mentioned.

Instead, learning almost nothing from Libya, Obama and his trusty sidekick McCain are about to make the same mistake in Syria. Public disapproval was so strong that Obama consented to take his request to Congress for a vote. That's an improvement anyway. Yet Kerry refused, under Rand Paul's questioning, to say if Obama wouldn't still go ahead with his war if Congress votes it down. One advantage of having the vote is that anyone who votes for this war [[Kerry says this isn't a "classic war") can be held responsible if unintended consequences like sunken US ships, terrorist attacks in the US, or Israeli/Iranian spillover wars occur and anyone who votes to spend billions killing Syrians will forfeit the legitimacy of their criticisms of an expanded sequester.

Nobel Peace Prize laurete, Mairead Maguire gives her account of her visit to Syria.

[coracle]

Having seen a lot of Kerry on TV since last Friday I can't help but wonder if his make-up artist was ever a mortician. Whoever he/she is they do a bang up job and if I was McCain I'd get one.

[Goose]

well, hopefully, one positive that can come from this mess is that the American people see what a sham both the Dummycraps and Repulitards are.... I cringe when anyone supports either of these two sides of a nickel... they are one in the same.... a Democrat is a hawk when it pushes their agenda and a Republican will get an abortion when its their daughther knocked up.... f' all of them...

[Papasito]

I know the mess our country is in and headed in is the fault of both parties, but I still want to post this because it's true and funny:

[rb336]

I know the mess our country is in and headed in is the fault of both parties, but I still want to post this because it's true and funny:

far more true if it had been Cheney

[Papasito]

Instead of waiting for the UN to complete it's inspection, he wants to act NOW.
The UK did NOT say they would not act, they said they would act only after the UN's investigation is COMPLETE.

So why act now then?

We jumped the gun once before on WMD's in Iraq.
What happens if Obama sends us in guns'a'blazin, then we find out in 2 months that it was the radical opposition groups that actually staged a chemical attack in order to achieve US intervention that could turn the tide of the war?

[Zacha341]

There's a more 'bipartisan' unified agenda afoot here while we yet persist in the 'they do this' and 'they do that' distraction as spoon fed by most mainstream media. Why is that?

well, hopefully, one positive that can come from this mess is that the American people see what a sham both the Dummycraps and Repulitards are....

[Papasito]

Maybe... just maybe... the Defense Department folks will look at the latest spy satellite imagery to see which sites NOT TO GO AFTER??

The only accurate spying OUR government does is on it's own citizens.

And, Gistok, Middle Eastern countries always show pictures of dead children after missile strikes and attacks from enemies. They have been using this tactic for years.
I guarantee you that if we launch an attack against select Syrian targets, we will look like butchers of children to everyone in the region.

Furthermore, a communication was intercepted on Friday from Iran to radical groups in Lebanon and other locations coordinating a retailliation against American targets including embassies if we strike Syria. There will be a response. We won't just lob some cruise missiles in without consequence.

[Papasito]

wow, the Irish don't pull any punches!

[Papasito]

Looks like Kerry opened his mouth, and Putin put his foot in it

On Monday, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said Syria could avoid an American attack by turning over " every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. "Russia immediately jumped on the offer, as Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Moscow will urgeSyria to place its chemical weapons under international control in a bid to avert military intervention.

This is a deft political move on Russia's part, especially since the State Department immediately walked back Kerry's comments by saying that he " was making a rhetorical argument about the impossibility and unlikelihood of Assad turning over chemical weapons he has denied he used. "


The Wall Street Journal's Tom Gara observes that Russia is capitalizing on a "silly Kerry mistake,"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/vladim...151618656.html

It's amateur hour in the US Government when the Russians make our leaders look like fools. It's not hard to do these days.

[rb336]

Now if Syria DOES turn over its chem weapons, and the impetus started with what Kerry said...

[JBMcB]

LOL...



A war for the 99% of the world!

[oladub]

"the impetus started with what Kerry said..."
"“The only reason why we are seeing this proposal,” said White House spokesman Jay Carney, “is because of the U.S. threat of military action.” Right, Putin is laughing to himself. Whatever. If Obama wants to sell it like a Christmas miracle on Pennsylvania Avenue that’s fine with Putin, because Putin won."
-Putin didn't save Obama; he beat him

[Papasito]

There's some real irony in the way things are turning out...


I was listening to NPR and the consensus is the Hollywood types are not speaking out about Obama's policies for fear of being called racist.

[Zacha341]

Yep. Indeed they're a 'bound' crowd [[and not unique in that status) unable to respond to much that can no longer be dismissed as 'repub' talking points!

...I was listening to NPR and the consensus is the Hollywood types are not speaking out about Obama's policies for fear of being called racist.

[rb336]

There's some real irony in the way things are turning out...


I was listening to NPR and the consensus is the Hollywood types are not speaking out about Obama's policies for fear of being called racist.

consensus among whom?
The following have issued statements, tweeted, gone to protests or otherwise stated their anti-bombing-Syria sentiments:
Ed Asner
Susan Sarandon
Sean Penn
Michael Moore
Tim Robbins
Neil Young
Bono
George Clooney
Danny Glover

Tim Robbins mentioned it on the Late Show. Moore has been VERY vocal about it - I get his tweets [[actually, I know about most of the above because Moore re-tweeted their comments)

The REAL reason that no-one really knows about this is the same reason most people know about their anti-Bush comments - right-wing talk radio and Fox news screamed bloody murder after any of them made an anti-Bush comment. These public people being against something Obama does doesn't fit their simple-minded narrative

[Zacha341]

^^^ Points well taken and my hats off to those who can set aside political ideology to take a stance. It's not easy to do that!

[oladub]

After a cursory search, I found that Ed Asner, Madonna, the Colbert Report, and the Daily Show have spoken against the war. I couldn't find any good list of Obama celebrity supporters opposing an attack on Syria with voices like Asner and Madonna being the vocal exceptions. It's been pretty muted in Hollywood. But then, except for the Pope coming out against this venture in front of 100,000 people, there haven't been any significant anti-war rallies either. Even tea party antagonists of Obama haven't been organizing anti-war rallies.

[Gistok]

I don't usually like to read the bloggers of the left or the right... but this one might just have pointed out correctly that Obama's played his Syrian Chess Game quite well indeed...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09...played-us-all/

[rb336]

I don't usually like to read the bloggers of the left or the right... but this one might just have pointed out correctly that Obama's played his Syrian Chess Game quite well indeed...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09...played-us-all/

Does anyone seriously think Vlad the Putin would have done anything if it weren't for cruise missiles aimed at his client?

[oladub]

I don't usually like to read the bloggers of the left or the right... but this one might just have pointed out correctly that Obama's played his Syrian Chess Game quite well indeed...

Some Obama supporters must be the only people left on the planet who imagine that President Obama is now some sort of chess master. Perhaps Assad should be credited as the even more brilliant chess master for getting Obama to legitimize his regime in return for some phony controls on whatever part of his chemical stockpile he is willing to hand over to allow Putin to take over regional policy?

"Putin sure doesn’t care that Obama’s taking credit for the proposal, or that the administration is posturing like a Mob enforcer. “The only reason why we are seeing this proposal,” said White House spokesman Jay Carney, “is because of the U.S. threat of military action.”

Right, Putin is laughing to himself. Whatever. If Obama wants to sell it like a Christmas miracle on Pennsylvania Avenue that’s fine with Putin, because Putin won."

Putin Didn't Save Obama, He Beat Him
With the Russian proposal on Syrian chemical weapons, the United States is being escorted out of the Middle East.

also, from an international perspective [[Asia Times):

"Oh, the joys of the geopolitical chessboard - Russia throwing a lifeline to save US President Barack Obama from his self-spun "red line". True diplomats are supposed to prevent wars - not pose as warmongers. American exceptionalism is of course exempted."
Do warmongers dream of playing chess?

[coracle]

Does anyone seriously think Vlad the Putin would have done anything if it weren't for cruise missiles aimed at his client?

Of course not. Our "chess master" after castling on his Queen's side and sacrificing his Queen's Knight's and Rook's pawns requested someone else to make the next move because he couldn't lose face and resign and doesn't have the balls to play on alone. While Vlad makes busy helping send the WMDs back to Iraq where they came from he has a bunch of blabber mouths telling him this isn't a game and whatever they say is real but he knows that not even they believe that. Whatever happens now we can spin this out and stop talking about it and file it next to "Benghazi" in the dead file cabinet. But then as somebody in the other file once said "what difference does it make?" when you don't do anything [[except paint lines).