Syria

**oladub** · August-26-13, 01:04 AM

I don't claim to know what will happen in Syria. A lot of brinksmanship is going on. Threats are being made. Reports differ. The anti-war movement is pretty dead. I do, however, appreciate this perspective.

Regarding a similar situation.

**Danny** · August-26-13, 05:39 AM

The Syrian Government had been suspected to use chemical weapons against its people for a while. It's a political and religious mess all over and they say to their moon god! ALLAH AKBAR!

**Papasito** · August-26-13, 12:41 PM

America has been the world's policeman for far too long, and where has it gotten us? We fund a UN... let THEM handle it. We haven't even paid for Iraq and Afghanistan yet.

China and Russia are both against a Syrian intervention. Are we ready to take on China and Russia over Syria? Our country does not have a strong enough manufacturing base to take on a serious world war right now. We don't have the courage to use our own raw materials for building and energy. We don't have the finances to wage a major war. Our nation is basically broken and ready to be toppled.

Where is the anti war crowd now?
Where are all the people who camped out in front of military bases, sat at George Bush's driveway, and protested in the streets? Don't they know that our country is not discussing IF we should get involved in Syria, or WHEN we should get involved in Syria... but how many cruise missiles they are going to launch and what they will be striking...

This conflict is imminent...

Jane Fonda, where are you? Barbara Streisand, where are you? Cindy Sheehan? Where are you, anti-war protesters? Why are you silent?

Background:

Russia is expanding its military presence in Syria, developing an advanced naval port at Tartus and providing Syria with sophisticated missile technology.

http://www.syria-news.com/readenews.php?sy_seq=61065

Russian President Vladimir Putin has consistently supported President Bashar Assad through Syria's violent crisis. Fiona Hill, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, argues that Putin's support is linked to Russia's own history.

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/27/175482...port-for-syria

“There is an alliance between so-called maritime powers: the US, the Western Europe and Turkey. They are trying to hold back Russia, China and Iran off international trade routes and thus get better bargaining positions. This would also hamper the economic growth of the three countries and affect their role in global politics,” adds the professor.

http://syria360.wordpress.com/2012/0...ssia-and-iran/

Iran, Syria, Russia and China are planning the “biggest-ever wargames in the Middle East,” according to an unconfirmed report on the semi-official Iranian news site Fars News.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian...hina-wargames/

Russia, China, Iran and Syria are a bit too close for comfort.

---------

“Certainly, a red line for us has been the use of chemicals against people. That has occurred. We need to obviously respond to that, but I don’t want us to change our overall policy,” said Sen. Bob Corker, the top Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

http://www.today.com/news/sen-corker...ria-8C10996039

We do?

**Danny** · August-26-13, 05:23 PM

The U.S. should leave Syria alone. If those Syrians want to kill themselves in the name of their moon god so beat it.

**oladub** · August-26-13, 08:27 PM

A just released Reuters/Ipsos poll shows that only 9% of Americans want the US to take military action in Syria. Meanwhile, President Obama is trying to form some sort of international coalition in case he decides to take any action. The real whacko bird is McCain who seems to be the most hawkish Senator regarding Syria.

**coracle** · August-27-13, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by oladub

A just released Reuters/Ipsos poll shows that only 9% of Americans want the US to take military action in Syria. Meanwhile, President Obama is trying to form some sort of international coalition in case he decides to take any action. The real whacko bird is McCain who seems to be the most hawkish Senator regarding Syria.

Couldn't agree more. McCain has been ready for the knacker's yard for the last decade [[and more). I think Obama is trying to join the hothead Europeans' all talk but no hardware so he can be seen to lead with the weaponry at his disposal if it's successful; but first he has to line up his fall guy [[Kelly) in case it fails. If it's successful we'll never know Kelly was involved. They'll change his name to Benghazi and he'll never be mentioned again.

**lpg** · August-27-13, 09:19 AM

Why not just declare war on the rest of the world and get it over with.

**Papasito** · August-27-13, 12:05 PM

McCain is just plain awful.
If he wants war in Syria, he should personally fund it, gather up a group of his friends and go do it. Leave the rest of us alone.

**Django** · August-27-13, 02:00 PM

http://stormcloudsgathering.com/leak...ments-download

Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, and Iran. Theres a whole lot of money to be made over there.

Obama is a farce, I voted for him and truly believed things might change with him and I feel like a fool now but what other option did I have anyway?
There is no doubt in my mind that we will be in Syria soon.

Im probably getting too personal here but my little brother was a pilot for US AIR making well under $40,000 a year 2 years ago. At this very moment he is now in Afghanistan working for Blackwater or whatever the fuck they call themselves these days flying around who knows what from air base to air base. Hes now making close to five time what US Air paid him. This just tells me how much is at stake.
Its as if we are being conditioned to accept our soldiers being sent off to be killed, maimed, or just to come back with PTSD. Ive never mentioned it here on Dyes but my father was killed at war 44 years ago this month when I was 11 months old for a senseless war. Now we have war after war for money and power. Jimminy Cricketts, at least Vietnam had a objective something a little more noble than just money.
Please start talking about this upcoming war NOW,spread the truth on your Facebook pages. Try and get in front of this as there has been enough lives ruined.

**Papasito** · August-27-13, 02:34 PM

This is getting big attention by the media:

Hagel: Military ready to strike Syria on Obama's order

http://news.msn.com/us/hagel-militar...n-obamas-order

If this was George Bush, the media would be pissed off and going berzerk! Where are the anti war media moguls? Someone stop the madness! I do not want to lose my 18 year old son because of another stupid war in the Middle East.

This is serious stuff going on. We're talking Armageddon here if Russia & China get on this bandwagon. The Assad regime has been their strategic ally.

**rb336** · August-27-13, 03:03 PM

Django, I feel as you do. Unfortunately, until US citizens wake the fuck up and start voting for ANYONE not part of the dempublican corporatist hegemony [[which includes Hillary, folks) nothing will change. I can think of two, maybe three people in congress who aren't - Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and...well I guess I can only think of two

**Papasito** · August-27-13, 03:26 PM

"Military strikes as early as Thursday"
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...cials-say?lite

Wow, Rb, I have your back on that post. And Django too.
The problem we have is that the media won't give anyone the spotlight unless they have a D or R in front of their name. True leaders are weeded out and destroyed before they can get on the ballot. The war powered money machine pushes on, and it can bring the end to us all.

**Django** · August-27-13, 04:19 PM

Are we becoming so used to war that we dont care anymore? I believe the truth of this whole sham is finally getting out there to the publics ear via Facebook and the like so people can be informed of our dissent.
The gas attack in Syria happened only a few days ago as where The Bush wars had time to be indoctrinated in us over a period of months and even years.
I have faith that the "internets" will have an effect on non acceptance of this war on the entire middle east but we all need to share this information with each other via the internet.

But feeling all chummy on the net is not going to make a defining difference. Protesting is not worth much anymore either. We had around a million people protesting the war in Iraq a few years ago on Washington but it only got a short blurb three pages in in the NY Times.

I dont know what the answer is to stopping this madness but the least we can do is spread the word that it is unacceptable.

Huffington Post
AlterNet
Stormcloudsgathering.com

I say just keep sharing the truth with your friends and eve enemies.

**Zacha341** · August-27-13, 06:21 PM

Attention is spreading. So long as this kind of information is trapped in 'Fox-news' bubble it can be dismissed...

I wonder how the folks up in the space station feel knowing they may not be getting a ride back or transpo of anything needed from Russia now that are NASA is janked. Earth must really seem far away.

Maybe they can hitch a ride home from China?!

Originally Posted by Papasito

If this was George Bush, the media would be pissed off and going berzerk! Where are the anti war media moguls? Someone stop the madness! I do not want to lose my 18 year old son because of another stupid war in the Middle East.

This is serious stuff going on. We're talking Armageddon here if Russia & China get on this bandwagon. The Assad regime has been their strategic ally.

**oladub** · August-27-13, 07:26 PM

Django, I emailed my two Wisconsin senators and my representative three days ago requesting that they oppose actions against Syria. I requested replies but have received none. It made me realize that another unspoken issue is that Congress, on the whole, is ducking this discussion, laying low, not wanting to stick their necks out for or against action against Syria. They are irresponsible cowards. They want to be able to blame it on the President if it goes badly but they can't do that because only Congress can declare war according to Article 1, Section 7...at least that's what is says. With only 9% of Americans supporting an attack on Syria [[Reuters/Ipsos Poll of 8/25), they would rather that the President lead the charge.

As you probably realize, I'm more of a small federal government type but I would rather argue about how much to spend on federal programs than have it spent on another war in which case there won't be as much money to even argue about. So I fully agree that we have to be writing letters, talking to people, sending letters to waste baskets in Washington, and whatever else we can dream up to get the direction of this thing turned around before it is too late.

"the President has no constitutional authority...to take this nation to war" -statement by "guess who" in 2007

Americans Would Rather Get a Root Canal or a Colonoscopy
than Launch War Against Syria

**old guy** · August-28-13, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

"the President has no constitutional authority...to take this nation to war"

I have to agree, that we need to be extremely vocal about this issue. The wording that I'm seeing that we could make a quick strike and bring an end to the problem is something I've heard way to many times and the outcome has never been successful.

Another war or conflict is unsustainable for our country. We need to challenge the validity of such an approach, both constitutionally and morally. We need to question what we're doing within our own borders and how we're treating our own citizens.

Reach out to your representatives even if they don't reply to you. This is a big deal that deserves a great deal of attention.
And it needs to happen now, not next week.

**Gistok** · August-29-13, 12:16 AM

The War Powers Act have been virtually ignored by every president since it was enacted. Not saying that's right... but it has.

And getting Congress to agree on virtually anything is nearly impossible...

I imagine that the NATO powers will get together, drop a few bombs... and put up the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED sign. Unlike Libya... there are even fewer decebt exit options available in this quagmire...

**old guy** · August-29-13, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The War Powers Act have been virtually ignored by every president since it was enacted. Not saying that's right... but it has.

And getting Congress to agree on virtually anything is nearly impossible...

Can't disagree with that.

**coracle** · August-29-13, 06:21 AM

If it can be proved that Assad did in fact gas his people rather than kill them in a more humane manner acceptable to Liberals I'm sure the the "West" will insist on a retaliatory strike against him to ease its sensibilities by killing more people. On the other hand if it's found it was a propaganda strike by the "Rebels" on the Rebels to draw the West into the conflict; I wonder if the same Liberals will strike the "Rebel" strongholds? If the latter alternative is true of course it would make the West complicit; but we would be expected to ignore that.

**Papasito** · August-29-13, 08:27 AM

British Prime Minister David Cameron was forced to change his stance late Wednesday, saying military action would have to wait until the U.N. Security Council had seen the findings of inspectors in Damascus and the U.K. parliament had held two votes, one of them scheduled for next week. Britain's role in the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, which was based on evidence of weapons of mass destruction that later turned out to be false, remains a controversial and divisive issue.

So basically - if the US wants to attack Syria now, they would be on their own.
At least the UK is showing some sense.

Based on what most terrorists say, and what the consensus is in the Middle East, the primary reason they want to damage the USA is because of our meddling in their affairs.

Wouldn't it be REAL CHANGE if Obama stood up before the world and said that the US condemns the use of chemical weapons, however, it is up to the people of the region to fulfill their moral obligation and step up to this challenge? And that the United States once again stepping into the affairs of other regions and other nations when the United States is not directly threatened is not the right thing for us to do with our military power? Imagine the reaction!

Iran stands united with Assad. Also:

Meanwhile, Russia announced it was sending an anti-submarine ship and a missile cruiser to the Mediterranean, according an Interfax news agency report cited by Reuters.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ia-strike?lite

The pictures of the Syrian victims are horrible. Looking at them DOES make you instinctively want to smash Assad for doing it. But it's NOT our fight.
THEY ARE IN A CIVIL WAR - PEOPLE DIE - AND IT IS HORRIBLE, BUT IT HAPPENS.

So...Syrians killing Syrians is somehow America's responsiblity to fix?
We are not Team America - World Police.
Let the UN...and nations CLOSER to this problem...handle it.
Turkey, Russia, China, Europe... let them handle it.

The Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queda are a significant portion of the Syrian rebellion. The Muslim Brotherhood and Al Queda are like the crips and the bloods...both groups are bad news and cause death and violence, you don't want to pick sides with either of them, yet the "geniuses" in Washington DC keep getting involved, choosing sides, even arming them. How foolish.

**oladub** · August-29-13, 08:42 AM

**Papasito** · August-29-13, 08:45 AM

holy crap... the further we are away from the Middle East,
the better off we are as a country.

**rb336** · August-29-13, 10:22 AM

Papa, your third paragraph in #20 would be great

**Papasito** · August-29-13, 02:49 PM

Russia's not joking around.

Alexander Lukashevich, Russia's foreign ministry spokesman, stated that Syria, along with other nations in North Africa and the Middle East, will suffer if attempts were made to intervene based on groundless excuses. A military intervention at the moment might bear "catastrophic consequences" if the UN Security Council is bypassed, he added.
....
Gennady Gatilov, the Deputy Foreign Minister, informed that Moscow had regretted the decision of the U.S. on Monday to postpone the scheduled meeting on unrest in Syria. The meeting had been scheduled to be held later this week at The Hague. The meeting may have been a chance to better the relation between the West and Russia that have been at daggers drawn, specifically regarding the issue of a possible military attack on Syria by the former.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/50191...ary-attack.htm

Russian military buildup:
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-sending...082257880.html

**Gistok** · August-29-13, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

If it can be proved that Assad did in fact gas his people rather than kill them in a more humane manner acceptable to Liberals I'm sure the the "West" will insist on a retaliatory strike against him to ease its sensibilities by killing more people. On the other hand if it's found it was a propaganda strike by the "Rebels" on the Rebels to draw the West into the conflict; I wonder if the same Liberals will strike the "Rebel" strongholds? If the latter alternative is true of course it would make the West complicit; but we would be expected to ignore that.

Coracle, I often don't agree with Oladub and Papasito... but they've got the "fair and balanced" sense to know that this is not a liberal vs. conservative debate... they understand the culpability and shortcomings of both parties...

But you like to use the tiresome "liberal" tagline like its' somehow their fault we're where we're at. At least THIS TIME Obama hasn't acted without more knowledge beforehand... something that his predecessor could have learned from, and saved us a trillion dollars, and tens of thousands of lives here and in the Middle East around Bagdad.

But just out of curiosity... what would "killing in a more humane manner acceptable to concervatives/tea baggers be?? Capital punishment for crimes? Complications from inadequate health care for the uninsured?

People like you crack me up... you're the first to denounce abortions... the first to denounce Dr. Kavorkian's methods... but if someone steps out of line and commits a crime... you're the first to pull the switch on the electric chair...

Funny that...