Smoke Free Bars

[ghein]

I noticed that on July 4th the Magic Bag and Bosco in Ferndale went smoke free. Does anybody know of any other bars in the metro area that have taken this route? I'd like to support smoke free establishments, but they certainly haven't done a good job of publicizing themselves if they're out there.

I'd appreciate it if this didn't devolve into a discussion on the possible smoking ban. It's been done.

[bike4beer]

I know that Dragonmead [[http://www.dragonmead.com/) in Warren is smoke free but they don't sell mixed drinks and only sell their own beer.

Liberty Street in Plymouth also only sells their own beers and no mixed drinks.

[Diehard]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...to-ban-smoking

Sounds reasonable to me!

[1KielsonDrive]

Thanks Ghein, for starting this post. I'm considering opening a bar and I'd like it to be smoke-free. I lived in San Francisco when the California law took effect. It was a relatively easy and trouble free transition. California did have exceptions for owner operated businesses. Of course, the weather is much milder there also, so smoking outdoors isn't a big deal. I'd like to see Michigan ban smoking in all public places. As much as I liked smokey, divey barrooms in the past, at my age I have much more difficulty with them.

[1KielsonDrive]

Maybe I could get some feedback about smoking versus non-smoking bars. If you'd like to give your age, whether or not you smoke and favorite things about bars, I'd appreciate the information. Do you think a divey, neighborhood, juke box bar could survive smoke-free? How about a coffee house, bar combination with occasional entertainment?

[reddog289]

Heck I smoke and drink and should cut down on both,But being real I don,t think the no smoking sign stopped me from eating at a place.Being a smoker I always wondered why my non smoking friends liked to visit me at the Bar.I think you could have Smoking Bars and Non smoking ones, That might curb some bitching from both sides.

[rjk]

"As lawmakers dither on a smoking ban, more owners of bars, restaurants and concert venues are taking matters into their own hands and voluntarily becoming smoke-free."

Problem solved.
Now the state politicians can worry about more important things. Not that it's going to happen.

I love the guy from the Magic Bag saying that he got tired of politicians not acting on legislation so they decided to go smoke-free on their own. Does this guy need the government to tell him what color paint he should use on the walls?

I've never smoked in my life, but if someone wants to open a bar that allows smoking he/she should have that right. If there's enough demand for smoke-free bars you'll see more of them going in that direction.

[chitaku]

I agree completely, Why do we need the government tell us how to live. If you don't want smoking in your bar then don't have it, but do you have to wait for Big Brother Government to tell you what to do?

[Bloomfield Pills]

It always struck me as ironic that the government would ban smoking in bars, where people go to get drunk.

[Omaha]

rjk, chitaku, and Bloomfield Pills YOU ARE right. While, I read this side of DY, I rarely post here. But your clear statements about personal rights drew me in. As a Colbert Conservative and Social Darwinist I felt an obligation to share.

Nebraska hasn’t outlawed the personal right to commit suicide by cigarette, cigar, or pipe…it has limited where one can do it. Not in bars or restaurants. They say it is "for our own good" and the good of the persons who freely choose to earn a living in such establishments. As if there is any proof that second hand smoke does anything but give pleasure to those who inhale it. Hell there have been supposed research done by “medical researchers� in the state that says a side effect after the first year of the ban is that “community health� or some such thing has improved! Who cares?

I am against anything that limits my personal freedom to do whatever I want when I want. Wear seatbelts? Personal choice. Go to school until age 16? Personal choice. Follow OSHA guidelines while working construction? Personal choice. Wear a helmet while riding my Harley? Personal choice. Come to a full stop at a STOP sign when a rolling stop is all that is needed to avoid a collision? Personal choice. Same thing about stop lights when there’s no cross traffic coming. Pay taxes to support a park or library? Personal choice. Have usury limits on what banks can charge for loans? Personal choice. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

Each and every one of those things are examples of government unfairly impinging on your and my freedom to do what I want and to keep what is mine. Like you, I am all about me, and to hell with those liberals who want to impose their version of the "common good" or "general welfare" on me.

Who needs society when we have the 10 Commandments to tell us how to live. And the nice thing about the 10 Commandments is they are optional and only guidelines that I can opt to ignore if I think they unfairly impinge on my freedom.

[oldredfordette]

I go to a cuban restaurant in Manhattan when I'm there, they made up a lovely smoking area for their patrons - huge plants and benches and a kind of wind wall. And it's far enough away from the front door so you don't run a gauntlet of smoke to get into the smoke free bar. Everybody gets happy.

[rjk]

Omaha, anyone can play the game you're playing. I'll play it from the other end of the table.
Personal choice is also involved in what we eat and how much we drink.
You want to drastically cut down on the money spent on health care, maybe the government should force McDonald's and other such restaurants to only sell healthy foods? If you're in favor of the government eliminating smoking from bars, I take it you'd also be in favor of the government mandating that these bars don't serve deep fried foods and place a limit on the number of drinks that can be served to each person?

If the government were concerned about the health of people as they say they are they'd do something about unhealthy foods and alcohol which cause far more social and financial problems in our society than smoking. The difference is that smokers are a small minority who can't put up much of a fight. Smokers are now treated like modern day leopards. It's funny how just about everyone hates smokers, but most people don't have a problem with the fat slobs who are downing Big Macs and drinking alcohol like it's going out of style. Reason being that most people eat Big Macs and drink alcohol. Don't think this is lost on politicians. They know who the modern day villains are.

[ghein]

Thanks bike4beer... I'm a huge beer guy and have never heard of Liberty Street. I'll have to check that out.

Kielson, a neighborhood place could make it. I know there used to be a smoke free place in rivertown called Karras Bros that looked like a neighborhood joint. It shut down eventually, but it always seemed to be doing fine whenever I went there. If you could open up a smoke free, non-pretentious bar in Royal Oak you'd be my hero. For being such a big bar town, Royal Oak has surprisingly few good bars.

So this is it? We've got 4 bars? If the smokers on the board are wondering why there's going to be a ban, that's the reason. The market is giving people no options so they're running to the government for the next best thing.

[devman1983]

I don't goto the bars often. I was in Munising up in the U.P. this 4th of July weekend and I wanted to have some beers at a local bar. We walked around the city [[town) and after walking into a few places we were disgusted by the raunch oder of smoke in every bar. We walked in... looked at the haze of smoke... then walked out. Needless to say our stay in Munising was a dry one.

Ghein: Whether you like it or not this thread will devolve into exactly what you don't want it to become. That is the wonderful thing about the Internet! People see a topic they have feelings about and post what is on their minds.

[Omaha]

Wow, rjk you got me! Thanks for sharing. You're right. Two can play at that game; and you play so well! Your laser-like analysis is overpowering. I can literally feel the distaste for my post dripping from your pen/computer. I am quaking at mine for having been so transparent and having invoked your ire. I have been found out. NOT!

I love that you believe politicians know who the villains are. I can hardly wait for Sarah Palin to take on another powerful incarnation and come to the rescue of the “little wo/man.�

Wake up dude/tte, the government is already doing what you are fearing. They are legislating with the “common good� and “general welfare� in mind. It is the next step in the process that this country started upon when it extended the vote beyond white male property owners back in the early 1800s.

BTW, methinks that you were looking for the word leper NOT leopard. Lepers were shunned and reviled because they had leprosy or Hansen’s disease. But today it’s curable, as is smoking. .

Leopards are much more adorable. They put them in zoos so that children can come and see them. But I don’t want to jump to conclusions. Maybe you really meant to say that "smokers are treated like modern day leopards." Maybe your irony and sarcasm in using the word was lost on me. If you deem to do so, please explain your word choice.

Thanks, sorry for hijacking the thread, and I hope there are no hard feelings.

[Sludgedaddy]

Yes, I've often been shunned like a leopard for refusing to change my spots. In the words of the Immortal Wesley Willis: "Suck a Cheetah's Dick!"

[ThaFuzz]

...whole lotta false equivalencies and generally selfish, prosmoking crap...

I hear ya about the personal choice stuff. I think it's unfair that the gummint won't let me exercise my personal choice of not suffering someone else's disgusting and harmful drug habit when I want to patronize a restaurant or bar.

[3rdDegreeBurns]

I'm someone who smokes semi-regularly [[usually when I'm out) and I fully support a smoking ban. Nobody should have to work in an environment where they breathe second-hand smoke all day/night long. Yes, consumers have a choice and smoke-free bars could do fine if the market demanded them. However, it is every employer's responsibility to provide a safe environment for their employees to work in. I think the evidence exists to say that second-hand smoke is dangerous especially with prolonged exposure... For that reason alone, smoking in the workplace should be baned.

[DLife]

Kuhnhenn's Brewery in Warren is smoke free

Thanks bike4beer... I'm a huge beer guy and have never heard of Liberty Street. I'll have to check that out.

Kielson, a neighborhood place could make it. I know there used to be a smoke free place in rivertown called Karras Bros that looked like a neighborhood joint. It shut down eventually, but it always seemed to be doing fine whenever I went there. If you could open up a smoke free, non-pretentious bar in Royal Oak you'd be my hero. For being such a big bar town, Royal Oak has surprisingly few good bars.

So this is it? We've got 4 bars? If the smokers on the board are wondering why there's going to be a ban, that's the reason. The market is giving people no options so they're running to the government for the next best thing.

[DLife]

http://www.arborbrewing.com/?site=brewpub

Ann Arbor Brewing goes smokefree in August--link to article above.

[reddog289]

As I light up a Camel before I go to sleep,I do see the future of smoking in bars and it isn't bright.Yet I don't really see the two bars within walking distance of my house gaining more customers if they went smoke free.That is just my opinion.

[rjk]

Wow, rjk you got me! Thanks for sharing. You're right. Two can play at that game; and you play so well! Your laser-like analysis is overpowering. I can literally feel the distaste for my post dripping from your pen/computer. I am quaking at mine for having been so transparent and having invoked your ire. I have been found out. NOT!

That's as far as I got. My guess is that you won't be legally allowed into a bar for another ten years so it's kind of pointless discussing this topic with you.

[milesdriven]

This is exactly what should happen, leave it up to the owners to go smoke free. Everyone now has a more desirable venue to get drunk, and the lawmakers can move on to something important, like how to stop the mass exodus from Michigan.

[Linda from Detroit]

Until I was diagnosed with emphysema I smoked like a chimney...around 3 packs a day. I was the person that everyone said would never quit. One day I shocked hubby by putting the pack down with the lighter and saying "That's the pack I'll never finish". Since then, I haven't touched one. Now when I go in an establishment where any smoking is allowed I can't breathe. Even walking past where someone has been smoking can cause an asthma attack [[I have that too). Luckily, one of the towns near me has a no smoking in public places law and that is where I go whenever I want to have dinner. I also do my best to avoid places where I know there is a smokey cloud to pass through on my way in. I remember how I hated the anti-smoking laws at one time and I do believe that smokers have rights too. All I ask is that those who still smoke remember that not all of us non-smokers really had a choice. Some of us have major health problems and honestly CAN'T be around the stuff. We also have the right to be able to go places and do things without ending up in the hospital

[eastside,c]

Hey try comming to Florida where the only places you can smoke are in your own home and
outside