DIA's national and world reputation

[Patrick]

I have always wondered about the repuation of the DIA. Is it known and respected in the world of art? Or is it treated as some sort of regional institution? Would an art critic in lets say Europe or even on the coasts know much about the collection besides the Rivera mural?

[Baselinepunk]

The DIA is very respected in the global museum community. The DIA has a very rich history. Also, the DIA has a fan tab and very respected conservation department.

[Bobl]

From a Tripadvisor review:

“Extraordinary museum - you must see”
Detroit Institute of Arts


Washington DC, District of Columbia
Jul 4, 2009



1/1 found this review helpful

I live in Washington DC so have a ton of museums on my doorstep. I've also visited most of the major art museums in Europe, including all of the "biggies." I've also visited all of the art museums in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. That said, I was shocked at the quality and comprehensiveness of the DIA. It is now in my American art museum top 5 list [[Met, MoMA, DIA, Baltimore Museum of Art, and National Gallery).

Each room's ceiling/floor/style was designed with the room's art in mind. The Diego Rivera murals are truly extraordinary [[be sure to go on a tour to get tidbits on what to look out for). The Dutch art is fab and the Bruegel is camera worthy. I was most appreciative and happy to see that so many outstanding works were presented by artists I was not familiar with [[how many Picassos can one look at anyway?).

The museum is very big, the restaurant looked charming but I did not have time to try out. The museum stays open till 10:00 pm on Friday nights. Unfortunately because of the recession and budget cuts the museum is only open till 4:00 on weekdays [[I think it's closed Mon & Tues) but is open till 5:00 pm on wknds. They offer live music on Fri nights.

Because Detroit isn't a big tourist city [[though there is a lot to see) the museum is nice and quiet. No massive hoards of tourists like we get in DC. They also let you take as many photos of the artwork as you like and you can stand nose to nose for the vast majority of works. No barriers! Also, the wall plaques and add'l "writeups" about the works are above average.

I wish I'd had more time to spend there; at $8 admission, it's a bargain. The museum is so good I am considering making another trip from DC to visit it in the fall. Detroit should feel proud to have such a gem.

Be sure to visit the Motown Museum too. Truly an American icon; hard to believe so many amazing performers walked thru that tiny house with its studio in the garage.

[Lowell]

I have visited several of the world's renowned museums. DIA is absolutely in the top tier.

[crawford]

DIA is excellent. At worst, it's top ten in the U.S. An argument could probably be made for top six or seven. Maybe even top five.

It's a first-tier museum of global renown. The only places it can't stand up to would be the absolute premier art collections [[NY's Moma and Met, Paris' Louvre, Madrid's Prado, St. Petersburg's Hermitage, and one or two others).

[MIRepublic]

The DIA is an exceptional museum, easily one of the tops in the country. I've been to quite a few of the biggies in Europe, too. It's definitely world class.

[French777]

Im no expert but I like the DIA because you can get a taste of everything in a day not like the Louvre. I been there too its really breathtaking architecture but Massive in size.

[Retroit]

Didn't make top ten on this list of world's best art museums by Reuters:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKSP17187820080229

Near the bottom of this comprehensive[[!) list of world's most visited art museums by The Art Newspaper:
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/attfig/AttFig07.pdf

Didn't make top 16 list of top museums of the world by Virgin Vacations:
http://www.virgin-vacations.com/site...-the-world.asp

Of course, none of these sources has the credibility of an objective DetroitYES!er.

[MIRepublic]

Of course, you've just been trolling these boards since you got here. God forbid that Detroit has a world-class museum or world-class anything. I know how much it disappoints you, poor thing.

What's your interest in Detroit, BTW? I honestly can't tell.

[Retroit]

What's your interest in Detroit, BTW?

Being realistic and honest and not pretending to be something that we are not. I have nothing against the DIA, it's just that this forum has gotten so dis-credible that it's laughable. This thread is just a microcosm of what is wrong with Detroit. No one wants to believe that Detroit can possibly be anything else but the greatest city in the world [[excluding the suburbs, of course). And social problems?...what social problems? They're "socio-economic" problems. How dare anyone suggest Detroit has "social" problems?...They must be racist! Detroit would have jobs if it weren't for all those greedy suburbanites hogging them all. And political problems? Well, everything will be okay after the next election.

Yes, let's all pretend Detroit has the best museums, the best food, the best music, the best sports teams...and don't suggest that Detroit is the most dangerous city in America. How dare those liars at Forbes! Everyone knows Detroit is as safe as any other city and any of its suburbs. Why, DetroitDad walks around at night waving his wallet around and he hasn't been robbed yet.

Yes, Detroit is world class...world class at not being able to solve our problems because...we have no problems!

[MIRepublic]

Being realistic and honest and not pretending to be something that we are not. I have nothing against the DIA, it's just that this forum has gotten so dis-credible that it's laughable. This thread is just a microcosm of what is wrong with Detroit. No one wants to believe that Detroit can possibly be anything else but the greatest city in the world [[excluding the suburbs, of course). And social problems?...what social problems? They're "socio-economic" problems. How dare anyone suggest Detroit has "social" problems?...They must be racist! Detroit would have jobs if it weren't for all those greedy suburbanites hogging them all. And political problems? Well, everything will be okay after the next election.

Yes, let's all pretend Detroit has the best museums, the best food, the best music, the best sports teams...and don't suggest that Detroit is the most dangerous city in America. How dare those liars at Forbes! Everyone knows Detroit is as safe as any other city and any of its suburbs. Why, DetroitDad walks around at night waving his wallet around and he hasn't been robbed yet.

Yes, Detroit is world class...world class at not being able to solve our problems because...we have no problems!

What the hell are you babbling on about? We're talking about the DIA, which is a world-class museum and your going off on silly tangents. You don't have a positive interest in the city or the region. All anyone has to do is search through your replies to see this. You add absolutely nothing of any value to anything, here.

[Lorax]

Retroit, I have no idea where you're coming from, and really don't wish to get into it.

That said, The DIA, which, as an art history major, I would place in the top 3 or 4 American museums, and certainly in the top 10 worldwide.

My critique would concur with the majority of those who rate and judge museums from a scholarly position.

The DIA has consistently ranked near or at the very top in the areas of Flemish art, Renaissance art, Medieval armor, and 18th century French decorative arts.

The Dodge Collection of French and Russian 18th century decorative arts is unparalleled on earth, and that would include what is left of such collections in France, such as the Musee Nissim de Camondo, which is an 18th century private home on the Parc Monceau in Paris, and contains an exquisite collection of decorative arts, and is the only such collection in France that rivals that of the legacy of Anna Thompson Dodge, left to the DIA at her death.

The Wrightsman Collection at the Metropolitan in New York would rival the Dodge Collection only in the sense that it's period rooms are actually more exquisite that the collections contained therein.

What separates the Dodge Collection apart from the rest, is the superb quality and provenance of the pieces, and the fact that they were assembled by the famed Baron Joseph Duveen, the antiquaire and art dealer who was responsible for assembling the collections of individuals such as J.P. Morgan, Henry Clay Frick, the Kress Collection, P.A.B. Widener, J.D. Rockefeller, etc. These collections formed the foundation of the National Gallery in Washington.

The pieces in the Dodge Collection include what are considered the best examples of the most celebrated cabinetmakers, metalworkers and porcelain artist of the 18th century.

Examples of work by J.H. Riesener, Mauice Etienne Falconet, Fragonard, Boucher, Martin Carlin, Philippe Caffieri, Clodion, Sevres, etc., ended up in Detroit thanks to the skill of a brilliant procurer and an educated Francophile who worked together for a decade assembling this magnificent collection, only a portion of which is currently displayed.

[Gistok]

Like Lowell, my favorite work at the DIA is COTOPAXI by Frederick Church, a huge magnificent painting of the worlds tallest volcano in Equador. My next favorite is Pieter Brueghel the Elders Wedding Dance [[only about 1/2 dozen Bruegel's exist in collections outside of Europe). It is one of Brueghel's best works.

Another masterpeice is of course the Diego Rivera murals. Since the only peer to the Rivera mural was destroyed shortly after its' installation at NYC Rockefeller Center [[early 1930s), the Detroit mural is considered by many as Rivera's finest work.

One of the main patrons of the DIA [[and Founders Society Chairman) is Richard Manoogian, chairman of Masco Corp. of Taylor. He has quite a few pictures on display at his Taylor HQ. Most of these will hopefully end up at the DIA.

But there is one work that Manoogian owns that is currently on display at the National Gallery in Washington DC. That is "The Jolly Flatboatmen" by George Caleb Bingham. It is an iconic Mississippi River scene that is one of the premier frontier pictures of the first half of the 19th century.

When Manoogian purchased the picture, it came with a stipulation that it had to remain in the Washington gallery for something like 20 years. It begs the question of whether Manoogian will eventually leave it to the DIA. It would seem kind of odd for him to have purchased a picture that would never leave Washington. Why spend the millions on it in the first place? But we just don't know.

But anyway, Manoogian has been a major benefactor [[as have the Ford's, the Dodge's, the Taubman's, and Robert Hudson Tannahill), and one can only hope that the Bingham painting will one day be a centerpiece of the DIA's magnificent 19th century American painting collection along with Cotopaxi.

It would be a fitting revenge for what Charles Lang Freer did with his Detroit mansions Asian art collections and his James MacNeil Whistler designed Peacock Room [[they were willed to Washington DC and became the nucleus of the Freer Gallery).

[Gistok]

Lorax, what is lamentable about the furnishings from the drawing room of Anna Thomson Dodge's Rose Terrace mansion.... is that the entire room [[wall paneling, floor and ceiling) was not included in the DIA bequest.

It's kind of sad to see the furnishings and not get an idea of how they looked in their original opulent setting.

[crawford]

Didn't make top ten on this list of world's best art museums by Reuters:

While Detroit probably isn't top ten on EARTH, it's among the top two dozen or so. And that list you posted is highly debatable. They include the Tate Modern and the Getty in the top 10, which is a joke. The Tate doesn't even have much of a collection. It's 90% special exhibits. The Getty is a spectacular building but very weak collection. It isn't even #1 in LA. That would be LACMA, and even LACMA is FAR inferior to DIA.

I would also say that any list that includes Chicago Art Institute and Washington National Gallery in the world's top 10 is highly suspect. Nation's top 10, of course [[along with DIA), but not ahead of places like Permagon in Berlin or Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam.

Near the bottom of this comprehensive[[!) list of world's most visited art museums by The Art Newspaper:

Even dumber. This is a list of attendance. Why would attendance correlate with quality of exhibits? Obviously tourist centers will have greater attendance, as will free museums, school tour-group museums, and musuems proximate to large populations.

[Gistok]

Agreed Crawford... add to that list Munich's Alte Pinakothek [[Old Picture Gallery) and Residenz Museum [[which has the worlds finest collection of crown jewels)... and then there's the museums in Dresden and Vienna as well as Florence and Rome.

[1KielsonDrive]

I surprised myself - I've been to a few of the museums on the list. I loved MOMA, the Whitney and Metropolitan in New Yrok , the National Gallery in DC and I go to the Chicago Institute fairly frequently. I've also been to the Guggenheim in New York, the MOMA in San Francisco and the MOMA in Chicago [[the old one in the Armory and the new one in its place). I was at the vatican but because I'm a recovering catatonic, oops, I mean catholic, I turned and fled. I've been to the Philadelphia Museum, and this'll probably ignite a firestorm, I went to the Uffizi in Florence, tired of tourists crawling on top of tourists, and walked out without seeing anywhere near the whole place. As a matter of fact, I didn't like Florence [[Firenza). Too many people, too many lines and too loud. I could barely sleep at night with all of the scooters ring ding dinging about. But, I did find a great little dive bar, the best in Italy, near the train station - The Joshua Tree. Dark, smokey, jazzy and filled with all ages, sexes and races. Having said all of that, I'm no expert. I think the only thing the DIA lacks is people. I was there a couple of months ago on a weekday and it was pretty slow. Considering the conditions in Detroit and the lack of tourism, I'd suggest it's a miracle we still have a museum as fine as the DIA, whatever its rank is. I had a housemate a few years ago who came from New York to complete a doctorate at the DIA. He was here because the DIA had the finest collection of the works he was studying, in the entire world. I was surprised. Some type of archtectural, decorative art. He, his fellow scholars, friends and guests were in awe.

[Downtown diva]

Being realistic and honest and not pretending to be something that we are not. I have nothing against the DIA, it's just that this forum has gotten so dis-credible that it's laughable. This thread is just a microcosm of what is wrong with Detroit. No one wants to believe that Detroit can possibly be anything else but the greatest city in the world [[excluding the suburbs, of course). And social problems?...what social problems? They're "socio-economic" problems. How dare anyone suggest Detroit has "social" problems?...They must be racist! Detroit would have jobs if it weren't for all those greedy suburbanites hogging them all. And political problems? Well, everything will be okay after the next election.

Yes, let's all pretend Detroit has the best museums, the best food, the best music, the best sports teams...and don't suggest that Detroit is the most dangerous city in America. How dare those liars at Forbes! Everyone knows Detroit is as safe as any other city and any of its suburbs. Why, DetroitDad walks around at night waving his wallet around and he hasn't been robbed yet.

Yes, Detroit is world class...world class at not being able to solve our problems because...we have no problems!

While I don't agree with Retroit regarding the DIA....I happen to think it is great, I completely understand where this person is coming from. HIs post is dead to nails in some respects. WHile you may not like to hear it, Detroit isn't the be all/end all. I think we all want it to be, but honestly...

1. Other cities are nicer, cleaner and better run. If you want to be the best, then do something about it.

2. Other cities are better investments....If you want that to change, then start buying up properties, and start doing something with them...don't wait for a developer to do ti

3. UNless you are Emily Gail, you should quit with the "Say nice things about Detroit" BS. She was cute when she did you it..you are not.

4. Complaining that Detroit's problems are anything other than an uneducated population NEGLIGENTLY electing leadership that either doesn't know enough to do well, doesn't care enough, or is too corrupt is a bunch of hooey.

As Corey Schulman, a friend of mine, always said "You can't change things in the city, if the people are unwilling to change it themselves" That is why he quit on the city....And that is why the suburbs thrive....AND TO THE CHAGRIN OF SOME PEOPLE HERE, WILL ALWAYS THRIVE.

[Gistok]

While I don't agree with Retroit regarding the DIA....I happen to think it is great, I completely understand where this person is coming from. HIs post is dead to nails in some respects. WHile you may not like to hear it, Detroit isn't the be all/end all. I think we all want it to be, but honestly...

1. Other cities are nicer, cleaner and better run. If you want to be the best, then do something about it.

2. Other cities are better investments....If you want that to change, then start buying up properties, and start doing something with them...don't wait for a developer to do ti

3. UNless you are Emily Gail, you should quit with the "Say nice things about Detroit" BS. She was cute when she did you it...are not.

4. Complaining that Detroit's problems are anything other than an uneducated population NEGLIGENTLY electing leadership that either doesn't know enough to do well, doesn't care enough, or is too corrupt is a bunch of hooey.

As Corey Schulman, a friend of mine, always said "You can't change things in the city, if the people are unwilling to change it themselves" That is why he quit on the city....And that is why the suburbs thrive....AND TO THE CHAGRIN OF SOME PEOPLE HERE, WILL ALWAYS THRIVE.

That may well be.... BUT.....

Can we actually have a thread about a subject where Detroit actually IS world class... and save the trash talk for other threads?

Even Crawford, who doesn't mince words on this forum, has good things to say about the DIA.

Or do we let the naysayers run amok on all threads Detroit related?

Is that too much to ask??

[1KielsonDrive]

Retroit and Downtown diva make good points whether or not you like what they're saying or the way they're saying it. Don't shoot the messengers. I love Detroit and visit often. In fact, the DIA, DFT, neighborhood bars and festivals and block parties, such as The Dalley, are far better than most anything in the burbs. I left Detroit many years ago to buy a house to live in. I owned property in the city but it wasn't a good, long term investment. My residence quadrupled in value in 20 years. My investment properties in Detroit went south during the crack epidemic. My friends were departing, mostly from the SW side, starting in the late 60's. They weren't fleeing crime or racial problems. They had doubts about the long term viability of the city and its schools. Most of them stayed gone. I've watched the cycle repeat itself many times in the 40 plus years since. Now I'm seeing another generation repeat the cycle except for one major criteria, they can't sell their homes for a fraction of what they've paid. In the past, most would take a loss just to get out. Now people are completely under water. During the crack epidemic I saw lifers who lived and worked in Detroit moving to my neighborhood in the burbs. Just in the last few months, I've entertained a few Detroit, Highland Park, Hamtramck lifers who have moved, or are considering moving, to A2. The cost of housing can be daunting, even in this economy. All it takes in most cases is a stolen auto or a break in. Couple that with a smart ass cop or no police response at all, and it's time to be gone. It's called adding insult to injury. You can love Detroit and acknowledge its problems.

[1KielsonDrive]

Actually Gistok, it is too much to ask. Realistically speaking. There are no rules or regulations governing what opinions can and cannot be voiced here at DY. Hijacking a thread is more the norm than the exception. It's more 'stream of thought' than hijacking. Just accept it and move on. I used to get all pissed off about it too. Pleas only draw more criticism.

[East Detroit]

While I don't agree with Retroit regarding the DIA....I happen to think it is great, I completely understand where this person is coming from. HIs post is dead to nails in some respects. WHile you may not like to hear it, Detroit isn't the be all/end all. I think we all want it to be, but honestly...

1. Other cities are nicer, cleaner and better run. If you want to be the best, then do something about it.

So, posting how much you think Detroit sucks on DetroitYes is a way to do something about it?

Really, we aren't children and don't need Retroit to wake us from our delusions. Probably has no clue what most of us are doing offline to ADD to the region.

Cheering on the good things IS part of doing something about it. Bitching on an online forum and driving over to Walmart in a Honda... not so much.

Want to help? Make suggestions about what everyone can personally do instead of just whining.

Sounds like most agree that the DIA is about #3 in the nation. That's a pride point!

[1KielsonDrive]

So it's a pride point......great, enjoy it. It won't do any good getting your feathers ruffled because you don't like what they're saying. Just because someone's opinion is different than yours doesn't mean they haven't done something good to ADD to the community, whether or not they live in Detroit. I lived, owned property and worked in Detroit more years than most people who post here. I know it doesn't make me an expert but it sure does make me experienced and knowledgable. I have my opinion and you have yours. Yes, you're entitled to your delusions and I'm entitled to mine, too. The DIA is a great institution. Who cares what the rankings are? Do you enjoy it? I do.That's all that really matters.

[Lorax]

It would be nice if all of us could stick to the thread topic and what is immediately related to it.

Some posters here are drawing larger conclusions about the city that have nothing to do with the thread topic.

By Retroit's metric, we could say New York has many world-class museums, but also has gang problems, filthy subways, burned-out ghettos, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Back on topic, the DIA is certainly well positioned, especially after the recent renovations for moving into the 21st. century in fine shape.

Going back to my thread about Detroit's Architectural Patrimony, the DIA and it's future funding needs to be seriously looked at. Dependence on the private sector too heavily, in light of the recent economic collapse, isn't smart. Public monies also need to be firmly committed, rather than at the mercy of yearly budget cuts. Some things should be carved in stone.

In reference to the above mentioned Chicago Art Institute, it certainly is world-class, with some iconic pieces, but is heavily rooted in Impressionism. The Palmer family left so many Impressionist paintings, amongst others, I often wonder, how many Monet wheatstacks can one look at? It would have been better served by diversifying it's collection a little more, though the original bequest requires all the Monets remain toghether.

Gistok, I agree, the music room of Rose Terrace, where the bulk of the Dodge Collection's premier pieces was situated needed to be brought to the DIA in situ, so we could appreciate the pieces in a proper setting.

I believe this wasn't done for a couple of reasons, first the home was to remain intact for eventual re-sale, which sadly resulted in it's demolition six years after Mrs. Dodge's death in 1970. Secondly, the interiors of Rose Terrace weren't purely period, having been assembled by the design firm of L. Alavoine and White-Allom, two of the world's most respected firms.

The DIA did get in the bequest several items which were auctioned off in the last couple of years, and fell under the radar, which I feel was a big mistake.

The set of four Maison Bagues chandeliers in the music room, along with the custom 22x48 Savonnerie carpet, the four gilt cabinets which housed the collections of Royal Severs porcelain, the Boucher tapestry of Psyche Displaying Her Treasures, among other items were sold to benefit the museum, and sadly, these items would have been important in replicating the original setting of the collection.

[Lowell]

The back and forth of this thread is a snapshot of the crisis of confidence all of us in All-of-Detroit face.

If I were to draw this in political cartoon form I would use the Spirit of Detroit, except it would have people in both hands yelling for its attention. The Spirt's face would be confused and uncertain.

One group would be yelling, "Join in, it's awesome, there's art, culture, history, a dramatic coastline, casinos, sports stadiums, friendly open-minded people, magnificent homes for a song, grand architecture, great cultural institutions, the DIA, the DSO... And it is going to get even better."

The other would be shouting, "Run for your lives, the schools suck, the homeless are all over the place, crime's out of control, blight are everywhere and growing, beggary is rampant, the cops are crooks and nothing gets done in government except for money being stolen. There is no hope."

East Detroit's point is telling; ask ourselves what we have done and are doing to.

If I were the Spirit of Detroit of the cartoon, that's what I would want to be hear -- from both hands.